Is an Anschutz 1710 good for me?

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Is an Anschutz 1710 good for me?

Post by Tomek » 02 Dec 2016, 11:11 am

Hello!

I would like to get a good .22 rifle that will hopefully not be too fussy with ammo, good for hunting and allow me to mess around with some local competitions if I wish. I hear the Anschutz 1710 is good but have also heard that it can suck really bad with 2inch groups using non match ammo. I can't hunt with that as I hear hunting requires HPs.. Are there any alternatives to Anschutz? Bleiker? (1/2 inch at 100 yards with match ammo) Perhaps a Lithgow would be alright although it may not be good enough for competitions. Give another CZ a try? Or do I simply need two rifles?

I have been burned really badly by my first CZ so an accuracy guarantee, or at least a helpful manufacturer would be a bonus. I'm not too fussy about the price.

Thanks :)
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Re: Is an Anschutz 1710 good for me?

Post by scotty87 » 02 Dec 2016, 12:32 pm

Honestly dude, the least fussy .22lr rifles I've shot are the Marlin XT22 and savage mkII both I've been able to shoot CCI standards into nice clover leaf groups under an inch with the odd flyer at 50m, this is not all day.

Unless you build a dedicated target rifle and shoot off a solid rest you won't likely get 0.5" all day out of any factory rifle.
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Re: Is an Anschutz 1710 good for me?

Post by allan » 02 Dec 2016, 1:30 pm

scotty87 wrote:Honestly dude, the least fussy .22lr rifles I've shot are the Marlin XT22 and savage mkII.
Unless you build a dedicated target rifle and shoot off a solid rest you won't likely get 0.5" all day out of any factory rifle.


I agree...Entry level 22's come equipped with chambers and headspace set to "generous" tolerances to accommodate the variances in the cheap bulk ammo. which is normally shot in them!!!

If you are not prepared to use good quality target ammo. matched to the individual rifle and shoot for groups in ideal conditions, No .22, regardless of price, will consistently shoot under 1/2" inch at 50.

Trust me, it has taken me a lot of time and expense to work that out !!

It sounds to me like you want a nice "all round" rifle to do multiple tasks so in reality, anything will be a compromise of sorts. A 1710 when scoped and ready to roll will weigh well over 9 lbs. as a rule - You will certainly know you've been carrying it after a day in the field. IF you can handle the muzzle heavy balance, it will serve you well as a range rifle and will shoot well with many standard velocity and HV HP rounds such as the SK offerings.

Me....I'd keep the 455 for hunting and plinking (the accuracy you describe sounds "real world" to me for that rifle. Then I'd buy a 1710 or 1712 and put something like a Leupold 4.5-14X40 AO on it. You will then have a quality rifle that will shoot better than you can and will be a source of pride for the rest of your life.
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Re: Is an Anschutz 1710 good for me?

Post by Tomek » 02 Dec 2016, 1:53 pm

Hi Allan,

Thanks for the response Allan. I expect to need target ammo when I want the possibility of bug sized groupings. However, I just hope that I could shoot some subsonic hollow points (standard too) at half-inch as well so that I have the ability to hunt reasonably well. I can't hunt with my CZ as 1 inch groupings are too big IMO. Plus, you should see how much each 5 shot group varies in terms of going upper right one time, and lower left the other without wind.. 10 shots groups would be well over 1 inch guaranteed.

Btw, I don't get this concept of plinking. I see people shooting crappy ammo next to me with good rifles and enjoying it their massive groups. Is it the shooting itself? I find 2 inch groups depressing personally.. lol not matter how many bullets i go through. I'd rather shoot less for the same price but have the chance to fin tune my skills.
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Re: Is an Anschutz 1710 good for me?

Post by allan » 02 Dec 2016, 2:26 pm

Tomek wrote: I can't hunt with my CZ as 1 inch groupings are too big IMO.

Btw, I don't get this concept of plinking. I Is it the shooting itself? I find 2 inch groups depressing personally..


I think it has already been mentioned but a 22 that will shoot 1" at 50 will be adequate for hunting at normal rim fire ranges - Mind you, those shots need to go roughly to the same POA and it does sound like yours is wandering around a bit - Bedding and torque on the barrel screws would be first on my investigation list.

Don't laugh - I have a couple of 22's but this is my favourite for a field rifle - An old Sportco 63A more than capable of holding it's own as a "plinker" :D
And here's the best target I ever shot with it with a "freaky" lot of 711B no less!
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Re: Is an Anschutz 1710 good for me?

Post by Gwion » 02 Dec 2016, 2:30 pm

Expecting 1/2" groups all the time is a touch unrealistic. My Tbolt CAN shoot under 1/2" groups at 50m but it takes a lot of work to achieve. With CCI Velocitors it shoots pretty close to 1/2" but that's pretty expensive to run. With my best killing "budget" ammo it averages closer to 1" but still well under, say around 0.8", give or take a little . This doesn't stop me making clean kills out to about 75m. You just need to figure out the rifles capabilities, your capabilities, the ammo's capabilities and stay within those parameters while hunting.
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Re: Is an Anschutz 1710 good for me?

Post by Gwion » 02 Dec 2016, 2:36 pm

allan wrote: Bedding and torque on the barrel screws would be first on my investigation list.


Hi Allan. This has been mentioned to Tomek a number of times by myself and others but he is not confident or familiar enough to trouble shoot this issue.
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Re: Is an Anschutz 1710 good for me?

Post by Tomek » 02 Dec 2016, 3:01 pm

Gwion wrote:
allan wrote: Bedding and torque on the barrel screws would be first on my investigation list.


Hi Allan. This has been mentioned to Tomek a number of times by myself and others but he is not confident or familiar enough to trouble shoot this issue.


I will ask tomorrow what they tried doing when testing my rifle. I really wish that my symptom of first mag being <.5 inch and getting worse with later mags over 1 inch using same ammo had a clear culprit. I'm torn between:

    Doing more tweaking myself
    Letting them accurize it
    Getting rid of it and getting an Anschutz lol

Maybe all 3!
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Re: Is an Anschutz 1710 good for me?

Post by bladeracer » 02 Dec 2016, 4:02 pm

Tomek wrote:Hi Allan,

Thanks for the response Allan. I expect to need target ammo when I want the possibility of bug sized groupings. However, I just hope that I could shoot some subsonic hollow points (standard too) at half-inch as well so that I have the ability to hunt reasonably well. I can't hunt with my CZ as 1 inch groupings are too big IMO. Plus, you should see how much each 5 shot group varies in terms of going upper right one time, and lower left the other without wind.. 10 shots groups would be well over 1 inch guaranteed.

Btw, I don't get this concept of plinking. I see people shooting crappy ammo next to me with good rifles and enjoying it their massive groups. Is it the shooting itself? I find 2 inch groups depressing personally.. lol not matter how many bullets i go through. I'd rather shoot less for the same price but have the chance to fin tune my skills.



One-inch at 50m under field conditions is more than good enough for hunting, I would bet the vast majority of rabbits and foxes that have been shot in Australia with .22's were shot with rifles/shooters barely capable of holding 2" groups at 50m, and many far less accurate than even that.
For hunting, it's far more important to learn where your first shot lands rather than how big a group they make.

I think your expectation of accuracy is warped a bit. If you absolutely need to see bullets all going through one hole then you're far better off buying a centrefire rifle and reload for it. .22LR is a very cheaply manufactured cartridge that has practical limits. The two most important factors, for me at least, is you need more consistent ignition than rimfire can offer, and you need more consistent bullets than soft lead can offer. Centrefire ignition and jacketed bullets are the place to start if you want accuracy. If you absolutely must have benchrest-type accuracy from a .22LR then it's going to cost a lot of money.

For me, .22's are all about "trigger time" and putting lots and lots and lots of bullets down range so you learn to hold the rifle consistently - think muscle memory.
Yes, shooting Eley Match in my Ruger and seeing a beautifully-shaped, 10-round 45mm group at 100m is immensely satisfying, but I can do even better with the .204 for a third of the price of the ammo.
If the ammo you are using is only capable of two-inch groups in your rifle, then you try to maintain those groups consistently.
If you're shooting a smoothbore blackpowder rifle that only groups 24" at 100m then you simply try to maintain that.
If you're shooting a .303 that can't do better than three-inch groups then that is your goal.

It just occurred to me to see what the practical limits might be for .22LR competition.

I don't know if I'm reading it right but it looks like the SSAA National Rimfire Benchrest records are:
Daylight:
0.108" 50m group (B Jupp 2008)
0.234" 100yd group (T Allinson 1981)
Artificial Light:
0.168" 50m group (P Jones 1998)
0.280" 100yd group (G Baker 1990)
http://www.benchrestbulletin.net/drupal/node/243

That seems to me that no Aussie has managed to shoot smaller than 0.234" at 100yds with a .22LR in the last 35 years, no matter how much money they spend in the attempt.
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Re: Is an Anschutz 1710 good for me?

Post by Tomek » 02 Dec 2016, 4:25 pm

Thanks bladeracer. Very informative again.

What is the 50mt Agg. stat in those records? Is that an average over 10*5 groups or something? I must also remind you that if firing 10 shots, the groupings do approach 2 inches because it keeps drifting around. And lets not forget that I get very tight groups with the range rifle without much difficulty using eley match ammo. My first mag is often really good with half inch using CCI subsonics but I can't exactly practice at a range at $20 each time just to shoot 10 rounds lol.

I thought about a higher caliber initially but the extra power seemed liked overkill for hunting rabbits. And with people telling me they were getting dimes/10c coins all day with their CZ it seemed fine for rabbits and foxes if I get closer. Plus the idea of subsonics was very attractive.

Arghh, this is crazy lol. But I need to see those targets tomorrow from the shop. If they can only get around an inch with Eley Match and worse with anything else, there's no way that's ok.
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Re: Is an Anschutz 1710 good for me?

Post by bladeracer » 02 Dec 2016, 4:40 pm

Tomek wrote:I thought about a higher caliber initially but the extra power seemed liked overkill for hunting rabbits. And with people telling me they were getting dimes/10c coins all day with their CZ it seemed fine for rabbits and foxes if I get closer. Plus the idea of subsonics was very attractive.



The .204 is actually smaller caliber than .22LR, but at Mach 4 ;-)
With a centrefire and loading your own ammo, the "power" is up to you.
I shoot subsonic loads in the .204, .243, 6.5x52mm, 6.5x55mm, 7mm-08, .303, 8x57mm and every other caliber I've ever owned, or will own.
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Re: Is an Anschutz 1710 good for me?

Post by Adlippy » 02 Dec 2016, 5:24 pm

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Re: Is an Anschutz 1710 good for me?

Post by Adlippy » 02 Dec 2016, 5:28 pm

Sako Finn fire beautiful piece of kit, very accurate and a pleasure to use. Mind likes the expensive stuff,eley, so do I I love the smell of that stuff, likely she also likes seller and balliot HV HP's and at $7 or $8 a packet so does my bank account
Sako Finn Fire II 22lr, Nikon pro staff 3x9x40
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Tikka Hunter 22-250 Meopta Meopro 6x18x50
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Re: Is an Anschutz 1710 good for me?

Post by Oldbloke » 02 Dec 2016, 9:53 pm

Tomak,
I think you go to springvale range. Im miles from there. But perhaps someone else can meet you ther snd help out for 2 or 3 hrs?
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Re: Is an Anschutz 1710 good for me?

Post by Tomek » 03 Dec 2016, 12:06 am

Oldbloke wrote:Tomak,
I think you go to springvale range. Im miles from there. But perhaps someone else can meet you ther snd help out for 2 or 3 hrs?


I'm actually closer to the other range (eagle creek?) but i go to Springdale because my gf can borrow a rifle there. I heard at Eagle creek you can't buy targets and there's no staple guns?
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Re: Is an Anschutz 1710 good for me?

Post by heeple » 05 Dec 2016, 3:03 pm

Eagle Park at Little River :thumbsup:

You can definitely buy targets in the shop, bring your own backing, tape, whatever you need to mount them though.

They just sell the paper targets.
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