Cheap .22 options

[bladeracer]

When i was at Ammunition Galore and got talking about the different options it was really interesting. He has the more expensive rounds and will explain to you exactly what you are buying and if you are getting value for money. The Eley Tenex he also said was at the top of the range but at $70 or more for a box of $50, you want to be in a competition where the money is no object and you want to win. The SK Rifle match was just over $11 for a box of 50 when i just recently purchased it. I bought 2 bricks and will probably buy another 1 when the first brick is used just in case there is a wait time. It is a German made round and the quality control shines through with great consistency. The SK Magazine he rated at the bottom of the SK range. I think that is true for most of the loose rounds across the manufactures, I will always stick with the individual boxed ammo.

I have a half box of the Highland High Impact RX hollow point It faired better than I expected in my tests. From looking at the packing I nearly put it in the loose unboxed round category. It was no outstanding pro former I put it ahead of the CCI mini mag.

The other surprising round was the Winchester Power Point 40gr there is also a 42gr very different round. I found these to shoot well. I did find a reason they may have been shooting well though. I found I had real trouble trying to extract an unfired round. It seams that the bullet is seated well into the lands. This can increase accuracy and in this case I think it was. Once the issue is found its not such a drama most of the time it just means you must fire any chambered round. I use the round for the bunnies the SK for target and bunnies if they are away from there warren. Death is not instant. RWS if I want a bit of quite time and not draw attention very accurate 100 m I feel is max for that load however

I really don't see how a retailer can tell you if you're getting value. Value for just anybody is dependent on accuracy, and that can only be determined by actually shooting it in the specific firearm. It really is something of a lottery and you simply have to try everything you can get your hands on if you want to discover what your specific rifle likes. I've found the match-class ammo tends to shoot tidier, more consistent groups, although group size varies. I think there probably is benefit to buying several bricks, dumping the whole lot into a pot and sorting them by weight and rim thickness. Put the most consistent aside for accurate work and use the remainder up for plinking and fouling. Both the 42gn Wins also shoot fairly well in my Ruger, although I doubt they're reaching the lands.

He charged me $30 a box for the Tenex. I have seen it elsewhere for as much as $42 though.

I've just been doing a stocktake so I know what I need to get.
I currently have:
CCI Standard Velocity
CCI Stinger
CCI Quiet Segmented HP
CCI Subsonic Segmented HP
CCI Velocitor
CCI MiniMag
CCI Copper-22
Eley Tenex
Eley Edge
Eley Club
Eley Match
Eley Subsonic
RWS HVHP
RWS Rifle Match
Remington Subsonic
Remington Cyclone
Remington Subsonic-22
Highland RX RN
Highland RX HP
Winchester Long-Z
Winchester Powerpoint 42
Winchester Subsonic Max 42
Winchester Super-X Short
Federal American Eagle HP

And some very old:
Winchester T22
ICI Civic Long
ICI Shot

So I'll need to pick up a few more next week.

[bladeracer]

Thats one hell of an inventory and I thought I had problems with too many open boxes that i dont use or like. I think he can give advice on value for money as he is a target shooter first. and selling to help others in his club or sport. A bit like the VRA and Qstore however even better prices. I locked at my RWS It is just marked HP subsonic is that another type from what you have. The one I have is very good. I would try the Winchester Power Point 40gr as well as you already have the 42grn I would be interested in the comparison. It is a little longer again. thats why I stayed away from it, with already problems extracting the 40s. I too have some Winchester FMJ from the 70s it shoots well and fast. I haven't looked at today's offerings so much but back then you could get the super velocity stuff as well. Back in the day before they found that shooting slower ammo gave better results.

If you're only going to own one .22 then I guess it'd suck to have a bunch of ammo that doesn't shoot great. But I'm much more of an experimenter so I like to have lots of stuff I can try in other rifles I buy or borrow. It all gets used up quickly enough

I understand he has experience, but how can he tell you what ammunition is going to shoot well in your specific rifle until he tries it himself? You constantly see people on forums or Youtube doing ammo tests and offering opinions on how great particular ammo is, only to find it doesn't shoot well at all in your rifle when you try it. Winchester Long-Z for example is the worst I've tried, it doesn't group at all in my Ruger, consistently, every time I try it. But I know others that love it. Somebody recently mentioned CCI Quiet Segmented HP was garbage, but it shoots very well in my Ruger. Both the RWS I've tried shoot no better than Highland RX in my Ruger, but you say their Subsonics shoots great for you. Yes, RWS HVHP is not subsonic, that's a different cartridge. I've been wanting to try SK Rifle Match for a long while but haven't found any. There are a handful of cartridges that have developed a reputation for _generally_ shooting consistently well in many different firearms - CCI Standard Velocity, SK Rifle Match, CCI Velocitors, and others - but that is no guarantee they'll shoot well in your rifle. All you can do is try them yourself.

I spent some hours trawling websites and put together a list of over 160 .22LR cartridges, of those I've put 33 through my Ruger so far to find a handful that shoot well enough to buy bricks of. Many others are probably unobtainable locally anyway, but there are at least another fifty-odd that I eventually want to try.

Regarding your extraction difficulty. Are the bullets actually engraved with the rifling? Could it be that they're simply reaching into the dirty part at the front of the chamber?

I'm curious about the .22LR FMJ, is it the stuff the US Air Force was issuing? I've never seen any but I thought that stuff was plated rather than jacketed.

[Jeff303]

Have a look at the rock island armoury 22.
Its a slightly revamped stirling. Nice thick threaded barrel, shoots like stink. ( ours does)
Has way better quality than you would expect, & doesnt even look bad. All for $285

[bladeracer]

I would stay away from Stirling.

Are new Stirlings worse than they used to be?
In the eighties I had two Stirling Model 20 semi-auto .22LR's and a Model 1500 bolt WMR and they were pretty good value back then.

[Oldbloke]

The last BA Stirling I looked at about 4 years ago was total crap.

[bladeracer]

The last BA Stirling I looked at about 4 years ago was total crap.

You mean it didn't function well or was it inaccurate?

[bladeracer]

He wasn't saying that this particular round was going to shoot well for me. However in the range of ammunition he has tried which I think is quite considerable, and from his own experience in shooting say the different rounds from SK and Eley. he was able to 1) verify that the manufactures ranking of their ammunition quality, for accuracy and consistency (consistency being the most important really) was in fact correct. 2) put a qualitative grading to them at least for him. 3) he knows the $ difference between them all and can then equate the accuracy gain for $ spent. To me that puts him in a position to say "value for money" There is a point like in nearly all things when you start to pay a lot more however only get small gains. It is the point before this is reached in my mind I would say gives you value for money.

I haven't really looked into the details of the hard to unload rounds. I have only had a couple after I found that I had a problem I dealt with it on the few more occasions since I have used that ammo simply by firing the loaded bullet and not re chambering another.

Below is a pic of the FMJ ammo I have from yester year. You are probably correct the 22LR may only be plated solids. The 22 mag well it says FMJ?

bullets.jpg

How does his calculation work when so many of us find the cheaper hunting ammo tends to shoot better than the expensive stuff?
In my experience, price is irrelevant to accuracy - except perhaps when working with match chambers in precision rifles. Generally, there is no linear relationship between accuracy and price with .22LR ammo. Often, paying more gives you _less_ accuracy. Averaging several 10-rd groups at 100m, I got 37.5mm groups from Eley Edge - the only stuff I can consistently shoot under 50mm at 100m, so far at least. RWS Rifle Match, Eley Subsonic HP, CCI Subsonic Segmented HP, RWS HVHP, Highland RX HP, Remington Cyclone, CCI Stinger, CCI Standard Velocity all stay under 75mm groups. Winchester Subsonic Max 42, CCI MiniMag HP, CCI Velocitor, Federal American Eagle HP and Sellier & Bellot Standard hold under 100mm 10-rd groups at 100m.

My intention when the Ruger Target arrives is to put a thousand rounds of bulk (probably CCI SV, Eley Edge, Highland RX and Remington Cyclone) through the barrel to set it up, then spend an entire day shooting at least fifty rounds of everything I can find. Hopefully I'll have a pretty good idea of which ammo shoots particularly well in it after that.

I consider accuracy to be more important than consistency. Consistency can often be improved by batching bulk ammo by weight and rim thickness to weed out the likely fliers. If it can't be improved then simply try something else, there are many dozens of different types of .22LR ammo so you will eventually find something that shoots well in your rifle.

A bullet marked "solid" is not FMJ, it's merely solid lead with no hollow point. WMR is jacketed as it uses .224" bullets. .22LR uses lead .223" bullets.

[bladeracer]

The one point your missing though is that the SK Rifle Match is not what I would call expensive he is selling it at (when I bought it last) $11.20. Which really made it one of the cheaper options compared to nearly every boxed ammo at the LGS. Just that alone with the fact its made in Germany in my mind makes it good value. However good value is each to his own.

You use the term quite often when referring to guns. It is quite a personal evaluation so up to you for me it is.

As for the FMJ I can only go by what is says on the box. If it says FMJ and its not take them to court for false advertising

I don't recall suggesting the SK Rifle Match was expensive. I know what it costs so I didn't miss the point at all. Good value is not relevant to where it's manufactured. Good value is how well it shoots, which can only be determined by shooting it.

Where does it say FMJ on the .22LR box? I can only see FMJ on the two WMR boxes.

[vmaxaust]

So with a budget of probably only about $300-$350 before I start skipping dinners and lunchs to save money, would anyone be able to recommend a model of .22 that has decent accuracy. I don't really care about looks, but want an accurate gun that isn't a single shot as I will also do quite a bit of hunting with it. I've seen a few .22's in my price range on used gun site's but not sure which ones will be accurate, or a made of good enough quality that they will work for me now and the next couple of years.

TL;DR - Looking at options for a .22 model priced between $300-350 that is accurate, not single shot and would be reliable (don't care about looks).

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Let me know if this is an unreasonable proposal given my budget as well.
Cheers[/quote]

Saw your post just this evening. Perhaps I have something you may be interested in. I was just going to post a 22LR CZ452, bolt action, wood stock rifle on the gun sale sites. It may be something you want to consider. I bought the rifle brand new for my daughter to use but like her older brother they used it firing a total of 300-400 rounds and it has not been touched for more than 18 months. It has open sights (no scope) for training my kids with regular sights. They come with a 5 round mag and I bought an extra one. Bought the rifle new in August 2015 for $870.00 plus the cost of the extra magazine.

Rifle looks like the day it was made. Would like to get $500.00
There is a good review of these here...
http://gunreviews.com.au/cz-452-rimfire/

Sam

[Oldbloke]

The last BA Stirling I looked at about 4 years ago was total crap.

You mean it didn't function well or was it inaccurate?

Just had a look in the LGS. Machining very rough and sloppy bolt. Trigger was also very heavy. We looked at about 5 or 6 22lr. It was by far the crappyist.
Purchased a BA Marlin.

[Gwion]

Vmaxaus: those Sportco rifles, linked in the post above, will shoot very well with a little tuning. Most of the ones linked should be quite good rifles.

[bladeracer]

So with a budget of probably only about $300-$350 before I start skipping dinners and lunchs to save money, would anyone be able to recommend a model of .22 that has decent accuracy. I don't really care about looks, but want an accurate gun that isn't a single shot as I will also do quite a bit of hunting with it. I've seen a few .22's in my price range on used gun site's but not sure which ones will be accurate, or a made of good enough quality that they will work for me now and the next couple of years.

I would look for a Remington 513T, although I don't know how common they are in Oz.
I have a 1950 BSA Sportsman 5 that is very pretty, and shoots very well - and they're usually very cheap.
Like this one - https://www.usedguns.com.au/Product.aspx?p=98547
Putting scopes on the older rimfires can be difficult as most won't have dovetails so will need drilling.

[vmaxaust]

[quote="sungazer"]Personally I think the budget you have and what your expectations are may not match. You may get lucky but I think the CZ 452 for $500 if it is in the condition stated would be a good buy and IMHO "Good Value"

He is in Victoria and possibly Melbourne where I am located. If you are in Melbourne or not too far out you should take a look. You will buy the rifle on the spot if you look at it. That is unless you want to save $100.00 or so and buy an old one that's done lots of work.

I'm selling for $500.00 because I want to move it out the door. I don't get emotional about rifles except my Enfields. Once there is no longer any use I believe it has to move on to someone who will get good use and value. I don't look at the "loss" as a financial hit. It is what it is and a rifle that does not get used is money tied up for nothing.

Please let me know before I list the rifle. I know it will sell pretty quickly.

Sam

[Pythonkeeper]

One of these is In your price range.....

Sorry, the link wouldn't work. Here's a screenshot instead.

[Oldbloke]

That cz looks a great deal. But about $200 above his budget. Then add postage.

[Wombat]

The 452 he was offered is well under priced and should last him out. If he really gets into money trouble he could probably get more than his money back quickly. You couldn't do that with a cheap Chinese copy.

[PoorShot300]

...i'll be the cheeky one here and add....for any of that .22 ammo sitting in the cupboard?....

You can send it to me if ya want to pay it forward lmao...(i'll cover postage )

[308cool]

Wow, thanks so much for all the replies. Didn't expect this much good info. I think it may be worth holding out for a month or 2 and conjuring 500-600 together to get a decent gun like a cz, ruger etc rather then cheaping out on something now. To Vmaxaust thanks a lot for the offer mate. If I had 500 right now I'd jump on it in a heartbeat, so feel free to list and if its still available (highly unlikely) in a month or 2 ill give you a message. Cheers

[Oldbloke]

Buying a 22 is no different to anything. Depends on budget, the amount and type of use.
If it's just for pointing or the odd rabbiting trip $450 should be plenty. If you shoot a lot or into comps $1000 would be closer to the mark

[308cool]

Sorry I should of stated.
This will probably be used about 80% range (not comp, but to get my attendances/use between centrefires cooling etc) and 20% hunting. However I'd still definitely be looking for a hunting orientated setup, i.e no bull barrel etc

[Oldbloke]

Sorry I should of stated.
This will probably be used about 80% range (not comp, but to get my attendances/use between centrefires cooling etc) and 20% hunting. However I'd still definitely be looking for a hunting orientated setup, i.e no bull barrel etc

You sound keen, and if your a young bloke consider paying a bit more. That new cz for about $550 sounded very good value.

I bought my Brno 38 years ago and never regretted it.

My arse went into convulsions at the time. ($135)

[Wombat]

Model 2's / 452's do turn up cheaply on occasion. I bought an early 1970's one with nice wood for around $500 last year and its one I'm never planning on parting with.
Maybe contact the member who made you the offer and see if he's willing to take a deposit while your PTA comes through, might be long enough to get another couple of hundred together.
If you just want a fairly accurate hunting rifle in your budget the 1970's and 80's Baikals / Toz's are normally pretty good shooters, just make sure you get at least one magazine with it (preferably 2 or more).

[2jzzzz]

So with a budget of probably only about $300-$350 before I start skipping dinners and lunchs to save money, would anyone be able to recommend a model of .22 that has decent accuracy. I don't really care about looks, but want an accurate gun that isn't a single shot as I will also do quite a bit of hunting with it. I've seen a few .22's in my price range on used gun site's but not sure which ones will be accurate, or a made of good enough quality that they will work for me now and the next couple of years.

TL;DR - Looking at options for a .22 model priced between $300-350 that is accurate, not single shot and would be reliable (don't care about looks).

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Let me know if this is an unreasonable proposal given my budget as well.
Cheers

Saw your post just this evening. Perhaps I have something you may be interested in. I was just going to post a 22LR CZ452, bolt action, wood stock rifle on the gun sale sites. It may be something you want to consider. I bought the rifle brand new for my daughter to use but like her older brother they used it firing a total of 300-400 rounds and it has not been touched for more than 18 months. It has open sights (no scope) for training my kids with regular sights. They come with a 5 round mag and I bought an extra one. Bought the rifle new in August 2015 for $870.00 plus the cost of the extra magazine.

Rifle looks like the day it was made. Would like to get $500.00
There is a good review of these here...
http://gunreviews.com.au/cz-452-rimfire/

Sam[/quote]

Hi Sam,

if you are still looking to sell, I'm interested. I'm brand new and my PTA is still on it's way (1st time, cooling off period. Let me know.