BRNO Mod 2 accuracy

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BRNO Mod 2 accuracy

Post by JimTom » 03 Feb 2018, 8:19 am

G’day again fellas.
I have a question regarding the effect on accuracy if the barrel on a model 2 BRNO .22LR has been shortened.
A bloke I know has had about two inches taken off the end of the barrel. It was done by a fitter not a proper gunsmith. Is this something I should avoid buying?
I have shot it and achieved about two inches at 100m. It was a different type of ammo than what he normally put through it. I used to own a model 2 and it shot more accurately than that.
Any input greatly appreciated.
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Re: BRNO Mod 2 accuracy

Post by marksman » 03 Feb 2018, 8:40 am

no you should not avoid buying it
100m is a long way for a .22LR
2" at 100m is pretty good I recon, you may find a different rifle to shoot better or worse :drinks:
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Re: BRNO Mod 2 accuracy

Post by Apollo » 03 Feb 2018, 10:03 am

I'm not going to say you should or shouldn't buy it but, a few points to consider.

Why was it shortened and did the person know how to re-crown it correctly.

Brno Model 2 Barrels are Hammer Forged, they are not .22cal at the muzzle end but actually less in a type of extruder format in that the bore is tighter at the muzzle end. How much and/or how far the taper goes I don't exactly know. I have never slug'd a bore but a .22cal mandrel for a normal .22 Bore Sighter will not fit in the end of a Brno 22 but will fit most other .22's that I have ever tried. I believe this is one reason why the Brno Model 2 is considered such an accurate rifle.

In my view 2" at 100m is just average for a good Brno Model 2 using the most accurate ammo it likes and that type of ammo has to be found like any other .22LR.

My own 1965 Brno Model 2 with Eley Match and/or Lapua Centre-X in good conditions will produce 5 shot groups at 200 Yards/Metres of 3" or less, quite a number of groups less than 2" but so far not quite as low as 1" but close a couple of times. I would call this one an excellent version of a Brno Model 2. If mine started shooting 2" groups at 100m then I would want to know what has gone wrong.

I know of two other Model 2's and a Model 2E that are almost as accurate so there must be many, many more out there. BTW, these groups are shot Benchrest using high quality equipment like a Farley Coaxial Front Rest.

Just my thoughts and something to consider.
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Re: BRNO Mod 2 accuracy

Post by bigfellascott » 03 Feb 2018, 10:18 am

I wouldn't buy it either, rather buy one that hasn't been tampered with by god only knows who.
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Re: BRNO Mod 2 accuracy

Post by JimTom » 03 Feb 2018, 10:33 am

Yes I had heard that the BRNO was slightly “choked” at the muzzle and that’s indeed why it is a great rifle. The barrel was actually threaded, and yes not by a gunsmith. It was turned back to just behind the front sight and threaded. I am sceptical because I don’t know how far back from the muzzle the barrel is “choked” for want of a better way of describing it. It has sentimental value as it was my first ever rifle when I was a kid and I sold many years ago. Was looking to get it back.
If it wasn’t for that fact I would even look at it.
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Re: BRNO Mod 2 accuracy

Post by Oldbloke » 03 Feb 2018, 10:46 am

Mine is loose for the last inch of the barrel. Bought it new, it has never been modified nor has it shot brilliantly. I must have got a dud. About 1.5 Moa is the best I can get.
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Re: BRNO Mod 2 accuracy

Post by Apollo » 03 Feb 2018, 11:31 am

Scooter wrote:Yes I had heard that the BRNO was slightly “choked” at the muzzle and that’s indeed why it is a great rifle. The barrel was actually threaded, and yes not by a gunsmith. It was turned back to just behind the front sight and threaded. I am sceptical because I don’t know how far back from the muzzle the barrel is “choked” for want of a better way of describing it. It has sentimental value as it was my first ever rifle when I was a kid and I sold many years ago. Was looking to get it back.
If it wasn’t for that fact I would even look at it.


Sentimental value I can understand but is it the same rifle even after the modifications in your mind. I suppose a lot has to do with what the asking price is and irrespective of how it shoots do you consider it still to be your old first ever rifle. Your decision.

The accuracy part now may just be a matter of again finding the ammo it likes to get the accuracy back. Maybe borrow it for awhile, shoot a heap of different ammo and make your decision....may not be possible.

For general use my Model 2 loves the old Winchester Power Points and is very accurate with those BUT not so much with the new version. Just as well I still have most of a "Brick" of those left which will see my use for quite some time yet.
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Re: BRNO Mod 2 accuracy

Post by Apollo » 03 Feb 2018, 11:40 am

Oldbloke wrote:Mine is loose for the last inch of the barrel. Bought it new, it has never been modified nor has it shot brilliantly. I must have got a dud. About 1.5 Moa is the best I can get.


Can't explain that one of being loose at the end, maybe it's a bit too tight further back. There's lots of different ammo, perhaps you haven't found the right one yet.
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Re: BRNO Mod 2 accuracy

Post by bigfellascott » 03 Feb 2018, 12:19 pm

Apollo wrote:I'm not going to say you should or shouldn't buy it but, a few points to consider.

Why was it shortened and did the person know how to re-crown it correctly.

Brno Model 2 Barrels are Hammer Forged, they are not .22cal at the muzzle end but actually less in a type of extruder format in that the bore is tighter at the muzzle end. How much and/or how far the taper goes I don't exactly know. I have never slug'd a bore but a .22cal mandrel for a normal .22 Bore Sighter will not fit in the end of a Brno 22 but will fit most other .22's that I have ever tried. I believe this is one reason why the Brno Model 2 is considered such an accurate rifle.

In my view 2" at 100m is just average for a good Brno Model 2 using the most accurate ammo it likes and that type of ammo has to be found like any other .22LR.

My own 1965 Brno Model 2 with Eley Match and/or Lapua Centre-X in good conditions will produce 5 shot groups at 200 Yards/Metres of 3" or less, quite a number of groups less than 2" but so far not quite as low as 1" but close a couple of times. I would call this one an excellent version of a Brno Model 2. If mine started shooting 2" groups at 100m then I would want to know what has gone wrong.

I know of two other Model 2's and a Model 2E that are almost as accurate so there must be many, many more out there. BTW, these groups are shot Benchrest using high quality equipment like a Farley Coaxial Front Rest.

Just my thoughts and something to consider.


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Re: BRNO Mod 2 accuracy

Post by Apollo » 03 Feb 2018, 1:11 pm

Scott, you are a little slow.... :D ... I thought you would have been quicker but was just waiting for the question.

I know you could probably guess which brand.... ;)

When I shot it last at 200 Yard Competition it was a Leupold VX3 8.5-25x50mm Varmint Hunter Reticle which was pretty close to it's maximum elevation BUT since chasing a bit better accuracy and seeing if I could keep more 200y groups under 2.0" it's had a CZ 527 20 MOA Picatinny Rail fitted and now sports a March 36-55x52mm EP Zoom. Gunsmith lightened trigger and modified sear.

In varmint/rabbit mode I swap over on the Rail to a Zeiss Terra 4-12x44mm with fine reticle. Bit hairy at close range as it's elevation is at it's lowest setting. Rabbits have become very wary around here and near impossible to find under 100 metres so either the Sako 22BR or Sako 204 comes with me for a bit of fun past 200 metres.

50 Metres is something I hardly ever shoot other than testing ammo but if required I swap out direct mounted to the Brno Dovetail to a Bushnell Elite 6500 2.5-16x50mm for a bit of fun.
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Re: BRNO Mod 2 accuracy

Post by No1Mk3 » 03 Feb 2018, 1:45 pm

I see the Great Brno Myth is still going? The Model 2, as is the 1 and 5, are (used to be) cheap Czech hunting rifles of average accuracy, 90% wouldn't come close to any Anschutz. If you wanted target quality from a Brno you got as Model 3 or 4, which are not common due to being quite expensive and a mile behind the Anschutz or BSA Martini target rifles. To get a 2" group from a Model 2 without select ammo is more than adequate, and as it is a rifle with some inherent personal value you should buy it without hesitation. The other "myth" I keep seeing on forums is that to use a lathe one must be a gunsmith, most smiths I have met are far less competent on a lathe than myself or 90% of other Fitter/Machinists I have worked with, people who use these machines all day for years doing a wide variety of work gunsmiths wouldn;t dream of, so if you have quite a few years knowledge of guns and the machining processes involved in making them I would rather have a Fitter machine my barrel, Cheers.
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Re: BRNO Mod 2 accuracy

Post by JimTom » 03 Feb 2018, 2:47 pm

Thanks for the input. Much appreciated.
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Re: BRNO Mod 2 accuracy

Post by Oldbloke » 03 Feb 2018, 3:06 pm

Apollo wrote:
Oldbloke wrote:Mine is loose for the last inch of the barrel. Bought it new, it has never been modified nor has it shot brilliantly. I must have got a dud. About 1.5 Moa is the best I can get.


Can't explain that one of being loose at the end, maybe it's a bit too tight further back. There's lots of different ammo, perhaps you haven't found the right one yet.



Yes, the throat seems very tight. Much tighter than the rest of the barrel.
I have tried about 10brands over the years and bushman always come up trumps.
The other thing is I don't have all the flash rests etc, so in part would be me.

Any ideas? I will be keeping it. Bought it new just after getting married 40 years ago.
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Re: BRNO Mod 2 accuracy

Post by Apollo » 03 Feb 2018, 4:12 pm

The flash rests etc are my testing and competition gear. Certainly not used out in the paddocks, a Bipod is the last thing I test with at home when I'm happy with a specific type of ammo.

One thing I do when testing ammo is start with a very clean bore. I will then test ammo from the same manufacturer which has the same wax coating, then a thorough clean before switching. It does take quite a few rounds to get the wax and fouling back to where I consider it is accurate again. That could use most of the first box of ammo in some cases, generally the cheaper ammo. I try not too waste to many packets of $30 ammo testing. During a days shooting I might run a dry patch down the bore during breaks and that gives me a feel as to how the bore is going.

The only other time it gets a thorough clean is when it is going to my Gunsmith friend for an inspection.

Tension on the Action / Barrel screws is also something I try and keep consistent to maintain accuracy.
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Re: BRNO Mod 2 accuracy

Post by Apollo » 03 Feb 2018, 4:17 pm

As far as Anschutz and the like goes I love seeing who is shooting those, especially those used as a base for a custom built rifle with fancy custom barrel. It just puts a smile on the dial to beat them and they don't like being beaten by a rabbit gun.

Just part of the fun n games of a great days shooting.
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Re: BRNO Mod 2 accuracy

Post by Oldbloke » 03 Feb 2018, 4:20 pm

"Tension on the Action / Barrel screws is also something I try and keep consistent to maintain accuracy."

I haven't tried that. But I have put some pressure under the barrel near the front of the forend. That helped a fair bit.

I havent tried different screw tensions.
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Re: BRNO Mod 2 accuracy

Post by Apollo » 03 Feb 2018, 4:41 pm

There is nothing touching my barrel in the forend. I can slide a $5 note between the barrel and forend until it gets close to the forend screw.

Somewhere I have some notes on what tension I used but can't find it at present. I think from memory the rear (Action) screw is double the tension of the forward screw in the barrel (forend). Pretty sure there are a few suggestions and where I got my setting on the Rimfire Forum.

Maybe like the story that not every rimfire behaves the same so may not like the same settings, like the ammo story.
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Re: BRNO Mod 2 accuracy

Post by JimTom » 03 Feb 2018, 5:01 pm

I am running PMC zapper in it. Perhaps it’s not the best however I have a few to get through before I buy anything else.
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Re: BRNO Mod 2 accuracy

Post by Wombat » 03 Feb 2018, 5:27 pm

Oldbloke wrote:"Tension on the Action / Barrel screws is also something I try and keep consistent to maintain accuracy."

I haven't tried that. But I have put some pressure under the barrel near the front of the forend. That helped a fair bit.

I havent tried different screw tensions.


Both screws are meant to be 20-25 inch pounds, do the rear one then the front. Made a big difference with mine.
Oddly enough mine shoots very well with some old PMC zapper I had, just as well as with SK rifle match :unknown:
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Re: BRNO Mod 2 accuracy

Post by bigrich » 03 Feb 2018, 9:09 pm

i was thinking of having the stepped front sight on my cz 452 2e supermatch machined off and re-crowned by a gunsmith. harmonics in the barrel from the weight of the front sight on one side of the barrel an all that. it has a 24 inch barrel, reckon it can afford to loose two inches. have read on rimfire forums this has improved accuracy on the posters rifle. any opinions ? the "choked" bore idea is food for thought. the cz 2e is bascally a modern mod 2 brno as far as i can find out
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Re: BRNO Mod 2 accuracy

Post by on_one_wheel » 03 Feb 2018, 11:17 pm

My mod 2 Bruno has been shortened, threaded and recrowned by a gunsmith.

It shoots exceptionally well just as it did prior to having it done. :thumbsup:
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Re: BRNO Mod 2 accuracy

Post by bigrich » 04 Feb 2018, 8:03 am

thanks for the feedback OOW :thumbsup: i was going to fix up a old krico, has a sloppy trigger, but shoots almost as good as the cz 2e. thinking i would rather tweak the cz as it will shoot amazing groups at 50 with eley ammo. have read the cz are made on the same machines as the brno were made on since ww2. what length did you get your barrel down to OOW ?
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Re: BRNO Mod 2 accuracy

Post by Oldbloke » 04 Feb 2018, 10:35 am

"Both screws are meant to be 20-25 inch pounds, do the rear one then the front. Made a big difference with mine.
Oddly enough mine shoots very well with some old PMC zapper I had, just as well as with SK rifle match "

Interesting, I've been doing the forend first.
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Re: BRNO Mod 2 accuracy

Post by on_one_wheel » 04 Feb 2018, 9:52 pm

bigrich wrote:thanks for the feedback OOW :thumbsup: i was going to fix up a old krico, has a sloppy trigger, but shoots almost as good as the cz 2e. thinking i would rather tweak the cz as it will shoot amazing groups at 50 with eley ammo. have read the cz are made on the same machines as the brno were made on since ww2. what length did you get your barrel down to OOW ?


I haven't actually measured it.
It was shortened just enough to remove the bulky front sight, probably around 2" or 3" would have been removed.
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Re: BRNO Mod 2 accuracy

Post by Oldbloke » 29 Sep 2019, 5:19 pm

Well i had an opportunity to put a few through the Mod 2
I tried a few diff brands but RWS Club went well. Perhaps the best yet.
Shot at 50 yards. I put 10 through her prior to this group.
RWS Club @ 50.jpg
RWS Club @ 50.jpg (27.73 KiB) Viewed 812 times


Free floating?
Any ideas on improving on this group?
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Re: BRNO Mod 2 accuracy

Post by marksman » 01 Oct 2019, 6:51 pm

so the barrel is free floating :unknown:

I would be cleaning the bore, then fowling and try
didn't work, touch up the crown, trigger and bedding :thumbsup:

by the stringing I would call the action is bending in the stock :unknown:
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Re: BRNO Mod 2 accuracy

Post by TassieTiger » 01 Oct 2019, 7:01 pm

That’s what -a 1 inch group at 45m ? I’d think you’d do better. My model 2 has also been cut and shut - it’s the shortest barrel I have in the safe and the lightest fire arm by a long way - kids love it and can hit swinging golf balls at 50.

Interesting - my barrel is floating BUT the stock is off centre some distance. It’s disconcerting but it shoots so I’m not touching it.

Have you tried the regular workers - CCI subs, SK magazine, Eley ?
I again agree with MM - a clean, re foul, try some diff ammo and ensure nothing is touching barrel.
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Re: BRNO Mod 2 accuracy

Post by Oldbloke » 01 Oct 2019, 7:43 pm

No it isnt free floating. Do u blokes think i should i?
Tried
cci
Win subs
Rws. Club
Win bushman
Win power point

Few others i cant remember.

Any suggestions?

PS. Trigger is ok. No complaints
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Re: BRNO Mod 2 accuracy

Post by Stix » 01 Oct 2019, 7:50 pm

I floated mine & it created all sorts of problems...

If you float it, try that washer trick at the same time...

I think that group looks weird so marksman is prob right...

Get that action sitting up on a washer so its free from tension...

Look at the rolled pin that houses the action screw--you can easily punch that in & out, so make sure thats not too long or too short.

Might also be worth trying with & without the front screw, & at dirrerent torqe settings.
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Re: BRNO Mod 2 accuracy

Post by Stix » 01 Oct 2019, 7:51 pm

If you do float it & its worse, you csn just bed it up to that barrel screw to get it back...
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