Howa Mini or Short Action

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Howa Mini or Short Action

Post by axio » 27 Feb 2018, 1:20 pm

Hi All

Should get my PTA soon and looking to grab a howa 223 in either Mini or Short action

Primary use will be target shooting and would go for the heavy barrel version

Other than the length of pull/weight reduction what compelling reasons are there to go for either option?
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Re: Howa Mini or Short Action

Post by Supaduke » 27 Feb 2018, 1:31 pm

SA has more stock options and a longer barrel. All the mini action advantages are in a hunting environment.
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Re: Howa Mini or Short Action

Post by Gwion » 27 Feb 2018, 1:57 pm

The shorter the actiin the stiffer the action... that's a good thing for fine precision. I'm not convinced longer barrels are a big deal on a 223rem. If the OP gets serious about target shooting he will likely end up with a target rifle and his howa will end up being a hunter or he will sell it on or get it trued and rebarrelled eventually.
Just my take on it.
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Re: Howa Mini or Short Action

Post by bladeracer » 27 Feb 2018, 1:59 pm

axio wrote:Hi All

Should get my PTA soon and looking to grab a howa 223 in either Mini or Short action

Primary use will be target shooting and would go for the heavy barrel version

Other than the length of pull/weight reduction what compelling reasons are there to go for either option?


I think I saw something about the short-action allows you to seat bullets further out? The mini-action is restricted in magazine length.
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Re: Howa Mini or Short Action

Post by Supaduke » 27 Feb 2018, 2:35 pm

Gwion wrote:The shorter the actiin the stiffer the action... that's a good thing for fine precision. I'm not convinced longer barrels are a big deal on a 223rem. If the OP gets serious about target shooting he will likely end up with a target rifle and his howa will end up being a hunter or he will sell it on or get it trued and rebarrelled eventually.
Just my take on it.


I'm talking more in regards to the bit of extra velocity if lobbing them out a bit further. Accuracy wise , I don't think there would be any tangible difference between the two out to say 500m
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Re: Howa Mini or Short Action

Post by Gwion » 27 Feb 2018, 2:38 pm

True. But if you are seriously trying to shoot further than 500yds you will go a 6.5 or 7mm rather than 223...
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Re: Howa Mini or Short Action

Post by axio » 27 Feb 2018, 2:39 pm

Thanks all, BTW my local range is 100m and 300m. If i did take it hunting wouldn't be much farther than this distance anyway

@Gwion - yes that's basically my idea, it will be more of an intermediary step for the time being.
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Re: Howa Mini or Short Action

Post by bladeracer » 27 Feb 2018, 2:56 pm

Gwion wrote:True. But if you are seriously trying to shoot further than 500yds you will go a 6.5 or 7mm rather than 223...


Unless you are shooting .223 in F-Class to 1000yds.
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Re: Howa Mini or Short Action

Post by Gwion » 27 Feb 2018, 2:58 pm

I'd go the mini, mate. It will be fine to get you into it at those ranges. The mini action is built for small cartridges. The only difference between a howa in long and short action is the bolt stop (or so i believe). It's a lot of unnecessary action.
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Re: Howa Mini or Short Action

Post by sungazer » 27 Feb 2018, 3:28 pm

I would go the short action as someone else said there are more options for stocks esp if you want to target shoot you are likely to get into upgrading one piece at a time until you take the next big step. The short action will allow you to seat your projectiles out longer.
A tip before you buy one is to also look at the twist rate on the barrel. I bought one recently in the 24 inch 1.8 twist short action. I think there are several other models if you like that have other twist rates (9-12 not good for heavy bullets) even the 8 twist will probably not let you shoot the 80 grn bullets required in F class competition but nobody at club level is going to worry about the fact you may be shooting 70grn bullets. It should do quite well out to 600 yrds they are used in comps out to 1000 but when competing against the 308 it gets blown around just that little bit more and realistically there are not many ranges that long and may only be a few long ranges in an entire year of comps. Still a fair few guys shooting 223 that like that grade and dont want the recoil of the 308 and dont want to get into F Open. Better to compete against a 308 than a 7 mm RSAUM that has a straight profile 30 inch barrel shot off a $2000 front rest. Anyway you said 300yrds so no problem a good choice to learn the proper techniques with.
The short action can be fitted to a MDT chassis while not cheap when fitted out with say a PRS butt you can get cheaper butt stocks again to get you started. The MDT chassis is a good stock unless you go some other stiff stock. I bought the rifle with a Houge stock it was $570 or something like that it was cheaper than they were selling just the barreled action. I also got a 6.5 C barreled action for $495 and use both on a shared MDT stock.
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Re: Howa Mini or Short Action

Post by bladeracer » 27 Feb 2018, 3:31 pm

sungazer wrote:...even the 8 twist will probably not let you shoot the 80 grn bullets required in F class competition...


80gn ELDM works fine in my 8"-twist Ruger.
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Re: Howa Mini or Short Action

Post by sungazer » 27 Feb 2018, 3:43 pm

I haven't tried any as yet. Do you push them pretty fast? I will have to look at the lengths of those compared to the Sierra MK 80 grn.
Update: you are allowed to compete with Sierra MK 69 grn
The other projectiles are the Hornady Amax 80grn No longer made I think, the Nosler HPBT 80 grn, JLK VLD 80 grn Berger VLD Target 80 grn and Berger Match Fullbore 80.5 grn.
The powder is BM2, AR2206H 2206H, 2208 and BM8208 thats it.
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Re: Howa Mini or Short Action

Post by pete1 » 27 Feb 2018, 3:47 pm

If your at a range that you can only load one by one, you may want prefer the short action as it comes with a internal magazine. You can get a kit pretty cheap that gives you a 5 or 10 capacity external magazine if you changer your mind.
As said above the short action has more stock verities.
I have a short action in 223 and short action 308, mate has a mini action in 223. that whole 0.9" difference in bolt length is really nothing to brag about in my opinion.
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Re: Howa Mini or Short Action

Post by Gwion » 27 Feb 2018, 3:52 pm

In f-class you only single load so mag length doesn't play a part in your seating depth.
Also, you are only restricted on bullet weight if you choose to shoot F-standard. Choose F-open and use what ever you want.
I've shot 50gn 223 out of an 18" barrel out at 300yd, 500yd & 600yd. 600 ir beyond that combination but at 500yd i can still keep it in or close to bull.
Last weekend i shot that combo at 300yd in F-hunter/varmint and the difference between me and a 22/250 with 55gn bullets was 45.2 v 45.3 on the first detail (the other guy changed to 6.5x55 on the second detail and shot 48.3; f-h/v is shot at 300 with no rear bag, basic bipods only anf scored as TR so possible is 50.10). Still, with a changable breeze the 50gn shot ok... considering.

Oh. And BTW; the OP won't be shooting f-class at a range with just 100 & 300 yd targets.

Also, having gone through the whole "upgrade a bit at a time" process, i strongly recommend leaving your howa stock, maybe bedding it, and saving your "upgrade" cash toward a target rifle.
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Re: Howa Mini or Short Action

Post by Gwion » 27 Feb 2018, 3:54 pm

sungazer wrote:I haven't tried any as yet. Do you push them pretty fast? I will have to look at the lengths of those compared to the Sierra MK 80 grn.
Update: you are allowed to compete with Sierra MK 69 grn
The other projectiles are the Hornady Amax 80grn No longer made I think, the Nosler HPBT 80 grn, JLK VLD 80 grn Berger VLD Target 80 grn and Berger Match Fullbore 80.5 grn.
The powder is BM2, AR2206H 2206H, 2208 and BM8208 thats it.


Only if you limit yourself to f-std...
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Re: Howa Mini or Short Action

Post by bladeracer » 27 Feb 2018, 3:58 pm

sungazer wrote:I haven't tried any as yet. Do you push them pretty fast? I will have to look at the lengths of those compared to the Sierra MK 80 grn.
Update: you are allowed to compete with Sierra MK 69 grn
The other projectiles are the Hornady Amax 80grn No longer made I think, the Nosler HPBT 80 grn, JLK VLD 80 grn Berger VLD Target 80 grn and Berger Match Fullbore 80.5 grn.
The powder is BM2, AR2206H 2206H, 2208 and BM8208 thats it.


The ELDM is 1.1555".
My chrono died but I was pushing them on 22.5gn up to 24.0gn of AR2206H which would've been around the 2700-2850fps area.
I now have a new chrono :-)
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Re: Howa Mini or Short Action

Post by sungazer » 27 Feb 2018, 4:03 pm

As I said in my post though. If it was me I would rather compete in this class as the ballistics of the 223 and 308 are nearly identical hence they compete together. To compete a 223 against a F open 7mm RSAUM with a straight Profile 30 inch barrel sitting on a $2000 front rest is just not in the same ballpark esp if you are going to shoot 50 grn bullets and a Harris bipod. Your club is one of a very few that offer another Factory class or has called in your club Hunter. Its in club only and not against other clubs in the DRA.
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Re: Howa Mini or Short Action

Post by Gwion » 27 Feb 2018, 4:15 pm

No body is going to enter f-class anything with a factory howa in anything other than a club meet. If shooting f-class at a club meet you wouldn't even expect to be up there with a factory rifle against a target 308 or 223. Shooting factory rifles is purely a way in at an affordable entry level. This is why we took the idea of running an f-class hunter/varmint devision for newbies to have an entry point. We got the idea from a Sth Aus club.

By the way: i have shot with and had preliminary discussions with NRAA chairman about f-class h/v and he is intetested in making it a national comp so if your club isn't already proactive about giving newbies a cheap way in, i suggest you get on board because it is great fun shooting a little pea shooter off the shoulder on a folding bi-pod.
If you're interested i can send you the info on the format as it is being run by us and the club in Sth Aus. :thumbsup:
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Re: Howa Mini or Short Action

Post by sungazer » 27 Feb 2018, 4:30 pm

I actually did with my Remington 700 308 originally off a Harris bipod and then a club member fitted an Anshutcz Rail to the forarm of my Boyds stock and then I use a home made Bipod again from and made be another club member. I competed in the DRA Pennant and a few OPM. I learn t a lot and as a obvious newbie people were very constructive in comments and helping me improve. The rifle and me would shoot a few super centres then it would be off in the 5s or maybe 4s. The rifle in that configuration was a 5 ring rifle meaning that was its natural deviation. I shot mainly 500 and 600 yrds as that is what most of the ranges are and a couple of longer ranges 8,9,and 1000yrds. It then got fitted with a 28 inch Bartlien barrel and I use it as a crossover rifle. The stock yet to be upgraded to one like I made with the help of Hatchers Stocks for my new project target rifle. Barnard action 30 inch HV Bartlien barrel again of my own stock with the help of Hatchers Stocks. The Tas queens is not out of the question as I could bring the family and pass it off as a holiday. Hope I can catch up and see you there.
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Re: Howa Mini or Short Action

Post by Gwion » 27 Feb 2018, 4:36 pm

Cool. So having been through the whole process you know what i mean by leaving the howa stock and saving for a proper target rifle.

By the time you add all the 'up grades' you are 2/3 the way to a new rifle that is more suited...
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Re: Howa Mini or Short Action

Post by sungazer » 27 Feb 2018, 5:19 pm

Yep and I have suggested that to a few budding target rifle shooters that have been on the forum. However if you really don't have the funds to go all out at once it is possible to enter the sport with a factory rifle. Just be realistic in you goals and don't expect to be competitive you may get lucky on the right day. I set my goal after some ranges and found I was about 10 points below a A grade. I thought that wasn't bad just had to improve 1 ring per shot. What I found was I could shoot quite well in fact when I shot with a couple of the other A graders rifles I out shot them and in one case scored a possible. I found my Remington for some reason would often put two shots in one place and then randomly move POI perhaps put another couple of shots in the new spot so improving was frustrating. I put pillars in bedded the rifle 3 times each time improving, then the barrel change has made for a good gun other than the stock the rear but with the angle rather than a close to flat if not flat parallel to the barrel for bag riding is paramount in a target rifle otherwise elevation is a problem.
I have learn t heaps about reloading and what I thought was good was no way there I am sure I still have room for improvement. Also heaps about ballistics and shooting techniques. I try them all out for myself noting the differences. I dont care if I dont win I am happy to try something and learn the hard way or it may suit me at that time.
There is no way I want to put anyone off and out club doesn't either the same as yours, we go about it a bit different as the new members that are interested are a bit different we tend to have new members that are ok buying second hand target rifles we try and help and vet the rifles for them. Then the saving and upgrades can occur, your just not as far behind the 8 ball. Full on target rifles are expensive esp the glass.

if you accept the fact that the first rifle you buy will / may never be a first class target rifle but with upgrades could be a first class crossover hunter then you have the right mind set.

I say may as I know a Remington 700 action that is in use in a F Open rifle and the shooter is in the top 10-15 in Vic so it can be done. He only has a GRS F class stock of course a new barrel and a Nightforce scope.
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Re: Howa Mini or Short Action

Post by bladeracer » 27 Feb 2018, 5:28 pm

sungazer wrote:Yep and I have suggested that to a few budding target rifle shooters that have been on the forum. However if you really don't have the funds to go all out at once it is possible to enter the sport with a factory rifle.


I asked my nearest club and they said I could certainly have a go with my rifles, but if I had no intention of building a "proper" rifle for F-Class I wouldn't be accepted as a member. My only interest in any competition will always be to simply better my shooting skills for the real world, I have no interest in competing just for the sake of competing.

I would definitely be interested in joining in a hunter class if it were available around here.
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Re: Howa Mini or Short Action

Post by Gwion » 27 Feb 2018, 5:32 pm

We find most new shooters are put off by 'not being able to compete' with members with barnard/bartlien set ups and visit a few time or most of a season but don't come back. Hence the hunter/varmint division.

I started with my howa and did a lot of work. Still saving for a new stock but have realised that i would have been better off saving the money and getting a sportco or something.

Anyway. Most people don't enjoy being dead last every week.
My advice would be keep the howa stock and just have some fun trying to beat yourself until you can afford to get an omark, which will cost you the same as all the upgrades to your howa. An omark will see you through until you really get serious.
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Re: Howa Mini or Short Action

Post by Gwion » 27 Feb 2018, 5:59 pm

bladeracer wrote:
sungazer wrote:Yep and I have suggested that to a few budding target rifle shooters that have been on the forum. However if you really don't have the funds to go all out at once it is possible to enter the sport with a factory rifle.


I asked my nearest club and they said I could certainly have a go with my rifles, but if I had no intention of building a "proper" rifle for F-Class I wouldn't be accepted as a member. My only interest in any competition will always be to simply better my shooting skills for the real world, I have no interest in competing just for the sake of competing.

I would definitely be interested in joining in a hunter class if it were available around here.


And this is exactly how many clubs are run and why fullbore shooting is not a growing sport for younger people.
I also joined just to improve at mid long range but then i got the X disease!

I might have to start a bit of a campaign to get the F-class hunter/varmint going at more clubs.
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Re: Howa Mini or Short Action

Post by axio » 27 Feb 2018, 6:12 pm

All good points lads, practically for my use i probably won't be doing any mods to it. There is an F-Class club nearby as well but i'd be looking to jump straight into 308 or 6.5 with all the customisations (and expenses lol) later down the line.

Went into the LGS just before closing to try both out and put a deposit on the Mini Action, now to wait for that PTA!
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Re: Howa Mini or Short Action

Post by Gwion » 27 Feb 2018, 6:20 pm

Nice one...
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Re: Howa Mini or Short Action

Post by COLLECTOR 1 » 27 Feb 2018, 9:44 pm

I've got one of those mini actions...223...stainless, heavy barrel....1 in 9 twist... my life long shooting partner brought one as well.
Between the 2 of us we have used/owned/collected so so many firearms. They are without a doubt the most accurate firearms either of us have owned.

We shoot 60 gn Hornady projectiles over distances of 100 to 300 metres, and nothing we own goes close in the accuracy. And I'm talking,100 odd firearms here. I'd have to look up the powder type / weight in my records but it's ridiculous just how good they are.

Two things to remember.

The magazine release is to long, catches on things and will drop out. A quick neat file down fixes that.

Short barrels get hot "quick"...thus your point of impact will move...But if your using it for target shooting that's not an issue.

A very good friend of ours has the blued light weight version, in 223...and he is a property owner out west. He shoots every night, has put 1000's of rounds through his....and reckons his one is the greatest things he has ever used. And he runs factory 55gn Federal ammo only...you will not be disappointed....

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Re: Howa Mini or Short Action

Post by Cooper » 28 Feb 2018, 9:29 am

I've heard the new Howa's will becaming with 1-8 twist barrels. There are currently 1-9.

If you serious about target shooting you'd probably want 1-8 twist?

If I had to pick I'd go the Mini. I have two one in 223 and one in 204. They both shoot very well! I also have a Weatherby (Howa) in 223. I prefer the Mini's. The 204 in MDT chassis is the most accurate gun I own and the 223 mini in Boyds thumb hole stock isn't fair behind in the accuracy department.
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Re: Howa Mini or Short Action

Post by sungazer » 28 Feb 2018, 5:34 pm

bladeracer wrote:
sungazer wrote:...even the 8 twist will probably not let you shoot the 80 grn bullets required in F class competition...


80gn ELDM works fine in my 8"-twist Ruger.


Someone in another thread said that the Howas were currently 1-9 twist and they are correct. Just looked at the notes on my Howa 223 and it is a 1-9.
So 80's may not fly. There are other Howa 223 that have other twist rates that are currently being sold so check if it is not to late.
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Re: Howa Mini or Short Action

Post by Gwion » 28 Feb 2018, 9:50 pm

1:9 twist should get you up to 65 or 70gn bullets. Plenty good enough for 300yds.
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