Trapping, hunting dogs, the argument continues.

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Re: Trapping, hunting dogs, the argument continues.

Post by animalpest » 13 Dec 2022, 6:12 pm

Yeah, trapping is a skill that few master well. On the other hand, shooting is relatively easy to get fairly good at. Shooting is a pretty good adjunct to trapping and baiting, but not normally at the same time. Best if shooting is done before or after.

Most of my work is away from home, so you dont have to live close, you just need to be able to live near were the work is! And be able to move around
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Re: Trapping, hunting dogs, the argument continues.

Post by Oldbloke » 13 Dec 2022, 6:49 pm

animalpest wrote:Yeah, trapping is a skill that few master well. On the other hand, shooting is relatively easy to get fairly good at. Shooting is a pretty good adjunct to trapping and baiting, but not normally at the same time. Best if shooting is done before or after.

Most of my work is away from home, so you dont have to live close, you just need to be able to live near were the work is! And be able to move around


My comment was about amateurs living close. Not pro's.
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Re: Trapping, hunting dogs, the argument continues.

Post by animalpest » 13 Dec 2022, 8:45 pm

Indeed OB. There are almost always plenty of people with firearms living locally.
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Re: Trapping, hunting dogs, the argument continues.

Post by Oldbloke » 13 Dec 2022, 10:10 pm

animalpest wrote:Indeed OB. There are almost always plenty of people with firearms living locally.


Yep, how many amateurs travel perhaps 5-6 hrs and stay a week camping to chase dogs. What would the success rates be? And a property would need to be organised, a significant hurdle. Although in Vic there are other options. Not only would you need to be keen but knowledgeable, have the cash & free time.
I'm sure plenty would, but for every successful hunter a heap would fail for one reason or the other.
Better for most to pursue other game/pests.
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Re: Trapping, hunting dogs, the argument continues.

Post by Die Judicii » 13 Dec 2022, 11:35 pm

animalpest wrote:And therein is the issue for the inexperienced. Setting the trap in the right place seems difficult but when you get to understand how animals move (and why) across the landscape, then it makes trapping much more effective and efficient.

When we were doing that job on foxes and cats on a station, we could set all the traps in 2-3 days and efficiency compared to shooting was way better.


I don't doubt for one minute that which you are saying regarding trapping of dogs,,,, yes, set traps at focal points whether it be a stump, a particular rock, or even a small mound or some such.

My point stems from some of my own observations.
I have watched many dogs from afar during the nights and yes, they move with purpose in mind, even when it appears they are simply wandering aimlessly.
Could be a feed on the mind, or a bitch, heading for water, or any of a multitude of reasonings.
But the vast majority never seem to check every one of the bushes, rocky ledges, mound of dirt, or stumps that abound in the given area of eg. 50 acres.
Thus supporting what I mentioned regarding the luck of a lottery.
And compounding this I have watched different dogs traversing the same territory either during the same night or differing nights, and only occasionally check out any particular "common" ground feature. ( If you've picked that particular spot for a trap :thumbsup: )

Careful attention and strict procedures in laying traps will definitely win out over just casual couldn't care less methods,,,,,, but at the end of the day, I still believe it is a bit of a lottery as to paths, angles of approach, visit or no visit etc
I do not fear death itself... Only its inopportune timing!
And,,,,It's been proven,,,,, the most loving, loyal, and trustworthy females in my entire life were all canines.
Whilst in most cases ignorance should be excused,,,,,,, stupididty simply cannot.
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Re: Trapping, hunting dogs, the argument continues.

Post by animalpest » 14 Dec 2022, 12:25 am

Ever taken a dog for a walk and wondered why a particular bush, tree, post, rock has been the focus of its attention?

I try but never win lotto :roll:
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Re: Trapping, hunting dogs, the argument continues.

Post by Die Judicii » 15 Dec 2022, 8:03 pm

animalpest wrote:Ever taken a dog for a walk and wondered why a particular bush, tree, post, rock has been the focus of its attention?


Spent most of my life walking a dog of one breed or another,,,,, but that aspect that you mention was a given.
I do not fear death itself... Only its inopportune timing!
And,,,,It's been proven,,,,, the most loving, loyal, and trustworthy females in my entire life were all canines.
Whilst in most cases ignorance should be excused,,,,,,, stupididty simply cannot.
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Re: Trapping, hunting dogs, the argument continues.

Post by animalpest » 15 Dec 2022, 11:01 pm

Die Judicii wrote:
animalpest wrote:Ever taken a dog for a walk and wondered why a particular bush, tree, post, rock has been the focus of its attention?


Spent most of my life walking a dog of one breed or another,,,,, but that aspect that you mention was a given.


Then when you can work that out - why dogs behave as they do - then you are part way there to putting traps in the right locations.

Alternatively, use a scattergun rather that than a rifle :lol:
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Re: Trapping, hunting dogs, the argument continues.

Post by Die Judicii » 16 Dec 2022, 1:05 pm

animalpest wrote:
Then when you can work that out - why dogs behave as they do - then you are part way there to putting traps in the right locations.

Alternatively, use a scattergun rather that than a rifle :lol:


Yes Sir,,,,,,,, a scatter gun loaded with nails and ball bearings. :wtf:
But the simple fact is, no-one can rule out the degree/percentage of the "lottery" aspect,,,, as in,, what part of the area a dog will traverse.
I do not fear death itself... Only its inopportune timing!
And,,,,It's been proven,,,,, the most loving, loyal, and trustworthy females in my entire life were all canines.
Whilst in most cases ignorance should be excused,,,,,,, stupididty simply cannot.
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Re: Trapping, hunting dogs, the argument continues.

Post by animalpest » 16 Dec 2022, 2:36 pm

Die Judicii wrote:
animalpest wrote:
Then when you can work that out - why dogs behave as they do - then you are part way there to putting traps in the right locations.

Alternatively, use a scattergun rather that than a rifle :lol:


Yes Sir,,,,,,,, a scatter gun loaded with nails and ball bearings. :wtf:
But the simple fact is, no-one can rule out the degree/percentage of the "lottery" aspect,,,, as in,, what part of the area a dog will traverse.


That is correct. Hence laying more than one trap to cover your bases. Indeed, some lures may simply not work so using different trap set-ups with a different lure is also preferred. And if they are running in pairs, then you may be better covered.
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Re: Trapping, hunting dogs, the argument continues.

Post by Oldbloke » 05 Mar 2024, 2:11 pm

Well, well, well.

Did the farmer do the right thing? I guess the court will decide.

https://ncreview.com.au/2024/03/05/tall ... -shooting/
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Re: Trapping, hunting dogs, the argument continues.

Post by Oldbloke » 05 Mar 2024, 2:22 pm

More from Weekly Times.

Tallarook farmer Denis Leahy’s firearms licence has been suspended after he was charged with “unlawfully” shooting a nearby property’s dogs that attacked and killed his sheep last September.

The suspension means Mr Leahy has been left powerless to stop further attacks, despite locals posting images of two young dogs wandering along the Tallarook-Pyalong Rd near his farm last Friday, which they say came from a nearby property linked to the original attack.

Images of the dogs were sent to the owner of a nearby property, who locals allege lodged the original complaint against Mr Leahy that led Mitchell Shire Council to charge him for unlawfully shooting two of her other dogs last September.


But the property owner did not respond to calls or texts and The Weekly Times has not otherwise been able to verify locals’ claims.

Mitchell Shire’s case against Mr Leahy appears to hinge on the argument that the dogs were not “at large” when he shot them last year.

The Weekly Times understands Mr Leahy was able to stop last September’s attack by calling the dogs over, after which he held them overnight to see if anyone would claim them, before shooting them the next morning.

While Section 30 of the Domestic Animals Act states “the owner of any animals or birds kept for farming purposes… may destroy any dog or cat found at large— (a) in the place where the animals or birds (livestock) are confined”.

But Section 84ZA states it is an offence to unlawfully seize or destroy a dog.

And more:

Wild dog control ‘irrational’

Victorian bureaucrats dogged by bias
Victorian Farmers Federation Livestock Councillor Peter Star said the case could set a precedent that restricted farmers stopping dog attacks and he would be seeking support to lodge an application with the Australian Farmers Fighting Fund to help fund Mr Leahy’s case.

Mr Leahy runs a couple thousand Merino-cross ewes and prime lambs on his property, which locals say the family has owned for several generations.
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Re: Trapping, hunting dogs, the argument continues.

Post by animalpest » 05 Mar 2024, 2:34 pm

Not sure that shooting a couple of domestic dogs that you have already caught and confined would pass the pub test
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Re: Trapping, hunting dogs, the argument continues.

Post by Oldbloke » 05 Mar 2024, 2:48 pm

animalpest wrote:Not sure that shooting a couple of domestic dogs that you have already caught and confined would pass the pub test


I agree.

He should have applied the 12g as they ran towards him.

Then applied the 3 S's


If the dog owners complained it sort of suggests they knew where their dogs were, therefore some of the guilt.
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Re: Trapping, hunting dogs, the argument continues.

Post by Oldbloke » 05 Mar 2024, 2:59 pm

s**t dog owners. Farmers must get really sick of it.

Another example.
Next door took their little palmeranian dog out front yard for a leak few weeks ago. Early in the morning.
Two grey hounds came along killed their dog bit both of our neighbours. $3000 dog, gone, and really cherished little dog.

Two grey hounds put down grey hound owners have been charged. Apparently the grey hound owners have history.

Happens with boring regularity.


Sooo, I wonder if the owners of the dogs that were on this farmers farm mauling sheep were charged.
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Re: Trapping, hunting dogs, the argument continues.

Post by on_one_wheel » 05 Mar 2024, 4:50 pm

It's no different to trapping and killing cats, if they're out, they're feral.
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Re: Trapping, hunting dogs, the argument continues.

Post by Oldbloke » 05 Mar 2024, 5:34 pm

on_one_wheel wrote:It's no different to trapping and killing cats, if they're out, they're feral.


Almost.
Each state varies. Last I heard, in Vic it's still illegal to shoot cats.

I hope I'm corrected tho.
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Re: Trapping, hunting dogs, the argument continues.

Post by bladeracer » 05 Mar 2024, 6:10 pm

Oldbloke wrote:
on_one_wheel wrote:It's no different to trapping and killing cats, if they're out, they're feral.


Almost.
Each state varies. Last I heard, in Vic it's still illegal to shoot cats.

I hope I'm corrected tho.


On private property you can shoot any cats that are menacing your stock. In the bush you can't as they are not classed as pest animals, and our hunting permission only allows us to hunt pest species.
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Re: Trapping, hunting dogs, the argument continues.

Post by Oldbloke » 05 Mar 2024, 6:59 pm

bladeracer wrote:
Oldbloke wrote:
on_one_wheel wrote:It's no different to trapping and killing cats, if they're out, they're feral.


Almost.
Each state varies. Last I heard, in Vic it's still illegal to shoot cats.

I hope I'm corrected tho.


On private property you can shoot any cats that are menacing your stock. In the bush you can't as they are not classed as pest animals, and our hunting permission only allows us to hunt pest species.


Yep, that sounds right.
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Re: Trapping, hunting dogs, the argument continues.

Post by Oldbloke » 05 May 2024, 4:44 am

Well, sounds like shooting dogs and dingoes ATM is off the agenda. Farmers in Nth West Vic aren't too happy.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-05-04/ ... /103789146

Here it is. Protected in Nth West Vic since March.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-03-16/ ... c_news_web
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Re: Trapping, hunting dogs, the argument continues.

Post by stihl88 » 06 May 2024, 12:47 pm

I would take the "90% of all wild dogs tested in Victoria were genetically pure dingoes" with a big slab of rock salt, we were involved in supplying researches with the wild dogs we trapped in the Victorian high country and although most had indeed interbred with the Dingoes (without interbreeding they struggle to survive the conditions) they were very far from pure bred Dingo! On memory they had an average of 10% Dingo genetics.

I have the 1080 ACUP endorsement and heard recently they're targeting 1080 baiting... low and behold i just received a survey from them to complete, i guess they'll do as usual and say they "consulted" with relevant parties for feedback and determined 1080 is no longer a primary tool for pest animal management.
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Re: Trapping, hunting dogs, the argument continues.

Post by Oldbloke » 06 May 2024, 2:07 pm

stihl88 wrote:I would take the "90% of all wild dogs tested in Victoria were genetically pure dingoes" with a big slab of rock salt, we were involved in supplying researches with the wild dogs we trapped in the Victorian high country and although most had indeed interbred with the Dingoes (without interbreeding they struggle to survive the conditions) they were very far from pure bred Dingo! On memory they had an average of 10% Dingo genetics.

I have the 1080 ACUP endorsement and heard recently they're targeting 1080 baiting... low and behold i just received a survey from them to complete, i guess they'll do as usual and say they "consulted" with relevant parties for feedback and determined 1080 is no longer a primary tool for pest animal management.


I have heard that many times. A (now deceased) member here had the same result in QLD.

It's all pork pies.
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Re: Trapping, hunting dogs, the argument continues.

Post by animalpest » 06 May 2024, 7:07 pm

stihl88 wrote:I would take the "90% of all wild dogs tested in Victoria were genetically pure dingoes" with a big slab of rock salt, we were involved in supplying researches with the wild dogs we trapped in the Victorian high country and although most had indeed interbred with the Dingoes (without interbreeding they struggle to survive the conditions) they were very far from pure bred Dingo! On memory they had an average of 10% Dingo genetics.

I have the 1080 ACUP endorsement and heard recently they're targeting 1080 baiting... low and behold i just received a survey from them to complete, i guess they'll do as usual and say they "consulted" with relevant parties for feedback and determined 1080 is no longer a primary tool for pest animal management.


Well you wouldn't need 1080 for wild dogs/dingoes there after they protect them. But jeez there is a lot of foxes out there
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Re: Trapping, hunting dogs, the argument continues.

Post by Oldbloke » 18 May 2024, 9:02 am

They seem to be claiming that colour doesn't matter.


https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-05-18/ ... c_news_web
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Re: Trapping, hunting dogs, the argument continues.

Post by Oldbloke » 10 Jul 2024, 5:44 pm

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