243 Ackley for long range foxes

Varminting and vertebrate pest control. Small game, hunting feral goats, foxes, dogs, cats, rabbits etc.

243 Ackley for long range foxes

Post by yowie » 24 May 2019, 11:50 am

I do a lot of daytime fox hunting but a lot of the foxes I see (That won't come into the whistle) are out around the 500m mark, My old 222 just ain't got the legs for that especially with a bit of wind.

I'm thinking of getting a 243 Ackley built just after peoples thoughts on this caliber (or alternative calibers) for long range foxes. I also occasionally stumble across the odd goat or fallow deer so it needs to be able to handle them. I reload my own ammo so a non factory caliber is not an issue.

And before anyone asks I am not going to consider a creedmore, I don't have a man bun!
yowie
Recruit
Recruit
 
Posts: 19
South Australia

Re: 243 Ackley for long range foxes

Post by Bazooker » 24 May 2019, 1:36 pm

6mm Rem AI?

Long action I know, but more is better?

Baz.
It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze........Relax!
User avatar
Bazooker
Private
Private
 
Posts: 58
Victoria

Re: 243 Ackley for long range foxes

Post by duncan61 » 24 May 2019, 2:46 pm

Nice problem to have and I have been in similar situations.To do the long range stuff a custom will be needed I doubt any factory barrel will consistently give you the results.I have seen some very good long range shooting done by 22/250 on foxes however I checked the ADI load data and it maxes at 70 gn pills yet 223 pushes 90gn.It does not make sense.an 80 gn out of a 22/250 would cover all bases as would 80gn out of .243 but the 22/250 would have the legs on .243 PM Elmer and see how he does it
.22 winchester .22hornet .222 .243 7mm rem mag cbc 12g
User avatar
duncan61
Officer Cadet
Officer Cadet
 
Posts: 1905
Western Australia

Re: 243 Ackley for long range foxes

Post by Strikey » 24 May 2019, 5:54 pm

Get the Ackley if for no other reason they just look good :thumbsup:
Strikey
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 316
Queensland

Re: 243 Ackley for long range foxes

Post by on_one_wheel » 24 May 2019, 7:24 pm

Cool looking round ... Another great advantage with the AI .243 is you'll be instantly accepted by the 6.5 man bun hipster crowd, they might even share some smashed avocado on toast with ya :lol:

I looked into the AI .243 and came to the conclusion that the .243 had the least to gain from the AI mods

The standard .243 is definitely up to the task of nailing foxes at 500m

It might be worth your while reading this thread.
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=3582
Gun control requires concentration and a steady hand
User avatar
on_one_wheel
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3561
South Australia

Re: 243 Ackley for long range foxes

Post by marksman » 24 May 2019, 8:45 pm

I had the same thoughts about a 243 ackley improved myself but after a heap of research I did a 6mm dasher
it would be worth a bit of research for you as well :drinks: http://www.6mmar.com/6mm_Dasher.php
I'm pushing 105gr bergers at 2950
out to 500 I would even suggest a 6mm br in varmint contour :thumbsup:
I also looked at the 6mm super long range because it is so easy to make the cases out of 243 cases
http://www.6mmar.com/Super_LR.html
but like the 243 ackley can be finicky to get shooting and not a lot of shooting before changing the barrel over

IMHO the dasher is king :thumbsup: :drinks: :drinks:
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/201 ... 000-yards/

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/201 ... 600-yards/

www.tapatalk.com/groups/practicalrifler ... t2526.html
Last edited by marksman on 24 May 2019, 8:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“If you do not read the newspapers you are uninformed. If you do read the newspapers you are misinformed”. Mark Twain
User avatar
marksman
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3660
Victoria

Re: 243 Ackley for long range foxes

Post by Bent Arrow » 24 May 2019, 8:55 pm

I'll just leave this here then shall I..........

_20190524_202437.JPG
_20190524_202437.JPG (186.63 KiB) Viewed 4767 times
Bent Arrow
Staff Sergeant
Staff Sergeant
 
Posts: 753
South Australia

Re: 243 Ackley for long range foxes

Post by on_one_wheel » 24 May 2019, 9:43 pm

MEME2019-05-24-09-10-46.jpg
MEME2019-05-24-09-10-46.jpg (188.18 KiB) Viewed 4757 times
Gun control requires concentration and a steady hand
User avatar
on_one_wheel
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3561
South Australia

Re: 243 Ackley for long range foxes

Post by duncan61 » 24 May 2019, 10:02 pm

wow that dasher is something else
.22 winchester .22hornet .222 .243 7mm rem mag cbc 12g
User avatar
duncan61
Officer Cadet
Officer Cadet
 
Posts: 1905
Western Australia

Re: 243 Ackley for long range foxes

Post by Strikey » 24 May 2019, 10:11 pm

Or you could go for the 250Sav Ackley Improved, my personal favourite, performance of the 25-06 or better with less powder in a short action and cases easily formed from 22-250 :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Strikey
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 316
Queensland

Re: 243 Ackley for long range foxes

Post by yowie » 26 May 2019, 3:21 pm

That Dasher seems like a good thing and is definatly one i will consider, After reading up i see that i may as well stick with a standard 243 as there is no real advantage with the Ackley.
A local gunsmith has a reamer for a 25/284 that would also fit the bill, anyone know much about this caliber ?
yowie
Recruit
Recruit
 
Posts: 19
South Australia

Re: 243 Ackley for long range foxes

Post by marksman » 26 May 2019, 8:52 pm

yowie wrote:That Dasher seems like a good thing and is definatly one i will consider, After reading up i see that i may as well stick with a standard 243 as there is no real advantage with the Ackley.
A local gunsmith has a reamer for a 25/284 that would also fit the bill, anyone know much about this caliber ?


seriously IMHO a 6.5 x 284 is way better :drinks:
“If you do not read the newspapers you are uninformed. If you do read the newspapers you are misinformed”. Mark Twain
User avatar
marksman
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3660
Victoria

Re: 243 Ackley for long range foxes

Post by SCJ429 » 26 May 2019, 10:37 pm

I am getting 3,300 fps for a 105 Berger from a straight 243 and will rechamber to a AI soon just because they are cool. Not sure how much faster it will run. The 243 has the legs and accuracy for a long range varmint rig.
SCJ429
Lieutenant Colonel
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Posts: 3206
New South Wales

Re: 243 Ackley for long range foxes

Post by Member-Deleted » 26 May 2019, 11:08 pm

I have a 22-250 Ackley improved and my opinion is that the little bit more you get from the ackley to the standard 22-250 isn't worth the extra effort unless you just plain want one I also had a 25-06 as some one has mentioned and I run 100gn through it and it had legs more thump then you'd expect and with smaller projectiles it was deadly and fast but I agree that the 243 standard has plenty of legs to do the job on ferals at long range it all really comes down to what you want and need it for my pick of all them would be 25-06 for its capability to make any load work for a given hunt , long legs 'and mild to shoot then the 243 basically the same as the 25-06 on saying that I haven't owned any of the 6-6.5s to really comment on them but the Ackley is just more powder for not much more in my opinion and remember the larger the caliber and the faster you drive them the more destructive they become and likewise with some small calibers as well especially if you want to keep the hides
Member-Deleted
 

Re: 243 Ackley for long range foxes

Post by straightshooter » 27 May 2019, 8:18 am

Strikey wrote:Or you could go for the 250Sav Ackley Improved, my personal favourite, performance of the 25-06 or better with less powder in a short action and cases easily formed from 22-250 :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Yes, but in the real world that performance can only come at the cost of insane pressures.
The reality is that much of the velocity gain attributed to AI resided in the land of myth and were publicised in the days before chronographs were easily obtainable.
However that is not to say that AI cases are without merit.
"Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about."
"There is no expedient to which a man will not resort to avoid the real labor of thinking." Sir Joshua Reynolds
straightshooter
Warrant Officer C1
Warrant Officer C1
 
Posts: 1263
New South Wales

Re: 243 Ackley for long range foxes

Post by Strikey » 27 May 2019, 6:51 pm

straightshooter wrote:
Strikey wrote:Or you could go for the 250Sav Ackley Improved, my personal favourite, performance of the 25-06 or better with less powder in a short action and cases easily formed from 22-250 :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Yes, but in the real world that performance can only come at the cost of insane pressures.
The reality is that much of the velocity gain attributed to AI resided in the land of myth and were publicised in the days before chronographs were easily obtainable.
However that is not to say that AI cases are without merit.


Yeah nah, the 250 Savage gains the most performance for the extra capacity of any of the Ackley Improved family. Modern powders help this little cartridge achieve velocities without "insane" pressures, I use Winchester brass and some are approaching 20 odd firings, admittedly some have been reasonably mild but I have loaded 120SPBT and Berger115VLD to 3100fps with no issue. I have owned a 25/06,will take a 250Ackley everyday, less powder, less blast/noise and possibly better consistent accuracy. The 250AI is not a myth :thumbsup:
Strikey
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 316
Queensland

Re: 243 Ackley for long range foxes

Post by TassieTiger » 27 May 2019, 9:39 pm

Who is this ackerley fella and if his developments are so poo hot - why are “standard” cartridges of the same no more popular ? If it’s an extra couple hundred FPS - would it not be easier to look at a different but more main stream cartridge? As a relative newbie, I’m genuinely confused - surely the “better” (ie more efficient and accurate) cartridges eventually become the norm /mainstream...ie 6.5 Cm...if the AI’s are as good as spruiked, what went wrong? Poor marketing? Performance conjecture??
Tikka .260 (Z5 5x25/52)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223 - VX 3
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22 (vtex 4-12, bush 3-9)
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 reddot
Sauer 30-06 - VX 3
Howa 300 win mag. SHV 5-20/56
Marlin SBL 45/70
TassieTiger
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3704
Tasmania

Re: 243 Ackley for long range foxes

Post by SCJ429 » 27 May 2019, 10:55 pm

Parker Ackley improved existing case designs by straightening case walls and increasing shoulder angles. This increased case capacity and helped prevent case growth but most importantly made the cases look like something really special. Compared to cases with a 20 degree shoulder, a 40 degree shoulder looks like a serious wildcat. Not all Ackley designs have a 40 degree shoulder and some case designs are improved more than others. Any increase in case capacity must increase the potential velocity even if modern powders have improved the original cases performance.

Manufactures are conservative for good reason, long slim cases with steep shoulder angles feed more reliably than short stubby cases with 40 degree shoulders, only now are we starting to see rifles chambered in 6mm BR, the Gendel and the WSM. Old traditional cases designs still dominate.

Of course the 6mm Dasher is the better case design, far more efficient than the 243, but the 243 is still faster and with a Ackley shoulder pretty cool too.
SCJ429
Lieutenant Colonel
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Posts: 3206
New South Wales

Re: 243 Ackley for long range foxes

Post by TassieTiger » 28 May 2019, 12:01 am

So it’s like the hsv section of shooting world? Lol.
Thank you sc.
Tikka .260 (Z5 5x25/52)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223 - VX 3
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22 (vtex 4-12, bush 3-9)
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 reddot
Sauer 30-06 - VX 3
Howa 300 win mag. SHV 5-20/56
Marlin SBL 45/70
TassieTiger
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3704
Tasmania

Re: 243 Ackley for long range foxes

Post by GQshayne » 28 May 2019, 7:54 pm

TassieTiger wrote:Who is this ackerley fella and if his developments are so poo hot - why are “standard” cartridges of the same no more popular ? If it’s an extra couple hundred FPS - would it not be easier to look at a different but more main stream cartridge? As a relative newbie, I’m genuinely confused - surely the “better” (ie more efficient and accurate) cartridges eventually become the norm /mainstream...ie 6.5 Cm...if the AI’s are as good as spruiked, what went wrong? Poor marketing? Performance conjecture??


I think the other issue is that Ackley did most of his work, many, many years ago, and some of the claims never quite added up to the hype. Some of the cartridges are quite good, others not so. In some instances it is only a difference of 100-200 fps. As you can see, such a gain for a field rifle is not as important as other factors, such as projectiles, powder, or the biggest factor of all, the shooter.
GQshayne
Staff Sergeant
Staff Sergeant
 
Posts: 839
Queensland

Re: 243 Ackley for long range foxes

Post by marksman » 28 May 2019, 9:00 pm

here's one for sale for the price of the barrel job
http://www.ozgunsales.com/listing/69498 ... ckley.html
“If you do not read the newspapers you are uninformed. If you do read the newspapers you are misinformed”. Mark Twain
User avatar
marksman
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3660
Victoria

Re: 243 Ackley for long range foxes

Post by Bill » 28 May 2019, 9:00 pm

A mate use a 6mm/250 for his roo shooting gig and head shots at 250-300m are predictable.

A 243 would have a little more and the AI even more but noise would also increase.

A simple choice really lol
When a guy is digging his own grave, you don’t fight him for the shovel.

Success leaves clues, Fools follow failure !

20 Hornet, 218 Bee, 222 Rem, 256 WM, 6mm ARC, 6.5 Grendel, 6.5x55 Scan, 270 Win, 357 Mag, 358 Win, 9.3x62, 500 A Square
User avatar
Bill
Warrant Officer C1
Warrant Officer C1
 
Posts: 1253
New South Wales

Re: 243 Ackley for long range foxes

Post by straightshooter » 29 May 2019, 9:15 am

Strikey wrote:Yeah nah, the 250 Savage gains the most performance for the extra capacity of any of the Ackley Improved family. Modern powders help this little cartridge achieve velocities without "insane" pressures, I use Winchester brass and some are approaching 20 odd firings, admittedly some have been reasonably mild but I have loaded 120SPBT and Berger115VLD to 3100fps with no issue. I have owned a 25/06,will take a 250Ackley everyday, less powder, less blast/noise and possibly better consistent accuracy. The 250AI is not a myth :thumbsup:


Yeah nah, I believe you!
But then again I really do believe that magicians actually cut their beautiful assistants in half and then put them back together without a drop of blood showing.
I just wonder what kind of magic glue they use.
"Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about."
"There is no expedient to which a man will not resort to avoid the real labor of thinking." Sir Joshua Reynolds
straightshooter
Warrant Officer C1
Warrant Officer C1
 
Posts: 1263
New South Wales

Re: 243 Ackley for long range foxes

Post by Member-Deleted » 29 May 2019, 10:36 am

I have a Hyem 30-06 rebarreled to 22-250 AI I only shoot one at a time it's a good gun 26'' s/s barrel I shoot 60gn only out of it one thing you must understand is your only going to get a few fps on top of a standard 22-250 then you have to hand load for it then on top of that you have to fire form the brass which is an extra cost for loading almost double I fire form my brass with a lower load than the one I normally use but its still a projectile, powder ,primer, time that you wouldn't use with a standard caliber there are calibers out there that are fast that you can buy brass for or buy tools to shape brass for that caliber rather than a caliber that you have to fire form to fire form you could almost expect twice the cost to a conventional caliber or a caliber that you can buy brass for or shape with dies
Member-Deleted
 

Re: 243 Ackley for long range foxes

Post by Baronvonrort » 31 May 2019, 12:03 am

There is a much cheaper solution to fireforming brass, you need one of these dies and a primer in the brass.

A video on how to do it here- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCqb_7UYh9k
Attachments
brass2-1024x640.jpg
brass2-1024x640.jpg (126.38 KiB) Viewed 4223 times
Baronvonrort
Staff Sergeant
Staff Sergeant
 
Posts: 896
New South Wales

Re: 243 Ackley for long range foxes

Post by bigrich » 31 May 2019, 5:06 am

Looking at ballistic charts, 243, 25-06 and 270 win are some of the flattest shooting caliber that are commercially available. For the distance at foxes, and the other stuff the poster wants to shoot ,I reckon 25-06 would do me
User avatar
bigrich
Brigadier
Brigadier
 
Posts: 4483
Queensland

Re: 243 Ackley for long range foxes

Post by Member-Deleted » 31 May 2019, 11:07 am

Yeah I agree with bigrich but it all depends on what you want although I would be sticking with a conventional type caliber one of these 3 mainly for availability of brass and projectiles for way out if you want speed i'd go small projectile giving you speed but on saying that by stepping up the speed it will mess with barrel life in the end and any of these 3 will shoot further and more than accurate enough for any shooters ability to harvest ferals a well set up 22-250 is good for 300-500yds for shooters it's getting to know your rifle and being able to shoot well with it you can have the fastest rifle the most accurate and hardest hitting caliber but if you can't shoot it well then its ability is lost and the cost is still there
Member-Deleted
 


Back to top
 
Return to Hunting - Varminting and vertebrate pest control