Newbie options - for pigs & feral dogs?

Varminting and vertebrate pest control. Small game, hunting feral goats, foxes, dogs, cats, rabbits etc.

Re: Newbie options - for pigs & feral dogs?

Post by bigrich » 03 Aug 2019, 6:23 pm

Blr243 wrote:Today we are bred to weak to cart smle in the scrub


303 Enfield have their uses, and their fans . it’s not that the 303 kicks that hard , but the Enfield stock is of poor design to control recoil compared to say a Mauser . The narrow Enfield stock with a brass butt plate was designed to torture the person pulling the trigger. :P By choice one of my model 70 Winchester’s is much more accurate and pleasant to shoot . A 303-25 would be a good thing for what the OP wants to do though, and is a pleasant flat shooting caliber. I know a couple of fellas with old sportco modified Enfields and their a good thing JMHO
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Re: Newbie options - for pigs & feral dogs?

Post by SCJ429 » 03 Aug 2019, 7:29 pm

What if 1914 AIF troops when they went to the armoury were given a choice between a Lee Enfield in 303 and a Remington 700 in 6.5x47 Lapua?

It is a pity that Paul Mauser worked for the opposition.
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Re: Newbie options - for pigs & feral dogs?

Post by Blr243 » 03 Aug 2019, 7:30 pm

I was actually referring to the weight of carrying it around .... my no 4 won’t hurt in the field due to the usual standing position and the relatively few shots fired It only smashes my shoulder when I shoot too many rounds at the range
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Re: Newbie options - for pigs & feral dogs?

Post by RoginaJack » 03 Aug 2019, 9:10 pm

What's that you say, a 303 has recoil? Bugger me, ya learn something new everyday.

i used to carry one around in the local school cadets from 1st year high school, 4 mile marches out to the range at Singleton army camp for range practice with the Bren and Rifle and never noticed.. :lol: :lol:
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Re: Newbie options - for pigs & feral dogs?

Post by Die Judicii » 04 Aug 2019, 8:23 am

RoginaJack wrote:What's that you say, a 303 has recoil? Bugger me, ya learn something new everyday.

i used to carry one around in the local school cadets from 1st year high school, 4 mile marches out to the range at Singleton army camp for range practice with the Bren and Rifle and never noticed.. :lol: :lol:


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Re: Newbie options - for pigs & feral dogs?

Post by bigrich » 04 Aug 2019, 10:12 am

Given a choice a modern sporter makes good sense , I’ve lugged Mausers around the bush and I wouldn’t say I’ve struggled. It’s just that unless you’re a Enfield enthusiast there’s better choices
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Re: Newbie options - for pigs & feral dogs?

Post by ScottyD » 27 Nov 2019, 1:50 am

I've been continuing my online research (whilst I wait patiently for my licence to come through), and have a possible solution that I'd like to run by you guys for comment/suggestions.

Seems my main issue when going after the dogs and pigs (possibly deer - I hear they're around but haven't seen any yet) will be either trying to take them at relatively short distances in thick bush, or else over longer distances in more open terrain. I think this distinction means I'll need to have two different rifles entirely.

I've read articles/seen videos suggesting that slower moving blunt rounds are more effective/efficient in scrub, where the range is much closer and branches/foliage must be penetrated without deflecting the shot. In this scenario I'm wondering if something like a 30 30 might be more appropriate, perhaps with a forward mounted scope (red dot?) so that it becomes something like a scout rifle (fast target acquisition).

Then for when I'm patrolling the more open areas, I'd then possibly go for something more 308ish/sniper-like.

Anyway, what do you folks reckon? Am I on the right track or going off on a tangent?
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Re: Newbie options - for pigs & feral dogs?

Post by bigrich » 27 Nov 2019, 7:34 am

ScottyD wrote:I've been continuing my online research (whilst I wait patiently for my licence to come through), and have a possible solution that I'd like to run by you guys for comment/suggestions.

Seems my main issue when going after the dogs and pigs (possibly deer - I hear they're around but haven't seen any yet) will be either trying to take them at relatively short distances in thick bush, or else over longer distances in more open terrain. I think this distinction means I'll need to have two different rifles entirely.

I've read articles/seen videos suggesting that slower moving blunt rounds are more effective/efficient in scrub, where the range is much closer and branches/foliage must be penetrated without deflecting the shot. In this scenario I'm wondering if something like a 30 30 might be more appropriate, perhaps with a forward mounted scope (red dot?) so that it becomes something like a scout rifle (fast target acquisition).

Then for when I'm patrolling the more open areas, I'd then possibly go for something more 308ish/sniper-like.

Anyway, what do you folks reckon? Am I on the right track or going off on a tangent?


check out a 308 ruger gunsight scout . i think you can get them in 6.5CM as well ,20" barrel , put a low power 1-5x20 scope on it and practice long shots . i've done long shots with low magnification a few times, and has a broad field of veiw compared to high magnification :thumbsup:
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Re: Newbie options - for pigs & feral dogs?

Post by Oldbloke » 27 Nov 2019, 7:44 pm

" check out a 308 ruger gunsight scout . i think you can get them in 6.5CM as well ,20" barrel , put a low power 1-5x20 scope on it and practice long shots . i've done long shots with low magnification a few times, and has a broad field of veiw compared to high magnification "

bigrich

A 308, 243, 270, 7x57, 30.06, 8x57, 22,250 in any modern bolt action are all pretty good choices. Any modern rifle will do what you want . But i wouldnt get that scope. It will be useless in low light situations. You neen a 40mm objective lense. 2-7 ×40 or 3-9×40 all good, a 4x40 is a good cheap loght weight compromise.
Last edited by Oldbloke on 27 Nov 2019, 8:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Newbie options - for pigs & feral dogs?

Post by GQshayne » 27 Nov 2019, 7:51 pm

Not necessary depending on what you get - one rifle can do both. This of course also negates the problem of having the wrong rifle in your hands, ie, you have your 30/30 and see a dog at about 275m away. No good really. Happened to my dad enough for him to swap his 30/30 for a .243.

So think of a calibre that can do both, .243, 7mm/08, any of the 6.5's (not creedmore though) etc. Something with a good trajectory and good energy for hunting. As for the rifle, I have a BLR. Fast in the thick stuff, and in .243, good enough for longer range. I have a 1-6 scope on mine, but a 2-8 would be another option.

Two rifles is great, but you can only carry one at a time. I am not a big believer in the old "brush bucking" theories. I think that the advantages of catridges with higher velocities outweigh any possible disadvantages.
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Re: Newbie options - for pigs & feral dogs?

Post by bigrich » 28 Nov 2019, 7:43 am

everything is a compromise at times ;) your right about the 1-5 in low light OB , i find low magnification to be quick to acquire targets ,but i have'nt had to use one in low light yet , you've given me something to think about . the OP wanted a rifle to cover every situation , the ruger carbine is pointy for in close and with a 20" barrel is more than accurate at distance . i don't hunt in scrub much , so my do all rifle is a 6.5x55 with a 3-9x40 loopy . i also own iron sighted 30-30 and a peep sighted 8x57 carbine , but i reach for the 6.5 everytime for it's versatility :thumbsup:
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Re: Newbie options - for pigs & feral dogs?

Post by Oldbloke » 28 Nov 2019, 8:58 am

Ill sell u my 1-5×20 if you want it. Lol
Yes wide field of view but u pay in low light.

All my rifles now have 3-9×40s 50mm is i believe a fair bit better but u pay a premium. Bigger and heavier too.
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Re: Newbie options - for pigs & feral dogs?

Post by ScottyD » 28 Nov 2019, 3:15 pm

Hmmm, as usual some excellent & helpful points raised. Thanks very much guys.

I think you might’ve hit one of the biggest issues with the two gun option right on the head GQshane. I can only carry one rifle at a time, and sure as s**t it’ll be the wrong one when it’s needed. So it looks like I’m back to the one gun route again.

I am pretty interested in the scout rifle concept, it seems to be the sort of tool with the flexibility I’m needing. And you’re right bigrich, the Ruger does look like a great example of the genre (I enjoyed reading about caveman’s Ruger scout in the scout rifle thread). I didn’t know it came with a 20” barrel, that does make it even more appealing. Especially if I go 308, which I’m starting to think might be best for when my only shot is a long one (might also help with pushing through bushes at shorter ranges too perhaps).
When it finally comes time to buy, I’m hoping to go and shoulder the different rifles, and see if there’s a discernible difference to the fit/handling for me. The Styer scout also has me curious, but it’s pretty bloody expensive. It’d have to be a pretty decent rifle to warrant that sort of expense.
I’ve also heard people recommending the Weatherby carbine, although it’s not really a scout type rifle (no detachable magazine nor option for forward mounted scope).

I’ll certainly keep your suggestions about the 40mm objective lense scopes for low light use Oldbloke, especially since I foresee those being exactly the times when I will most likely be going for a ‘quiet little wander’.

Very frustrating having to wait so long for my licence, I wish I’d started the process a lot sooner. Getting frequent sightings of three wild dogs hunting together along the gullies of our neighbours places across the road lately. My trigger finger is actually getting physically itchy.
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Re: Newbie options - for pigs & feral dogs?

Post by bladeracer » 28 Nov 2019, 4:06 pm

ScottyD wrote:I think you might’ve hit one of the biggest issues with the two gun option right on the head GQshane. I can only carry one rifle at a time, and sure as s**t it’ll be the wrong one when it’s needed. So it looks like I’m back to the one gun route again.


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Re: Newbie options - for pigs & feral dogs?

Post by bigrich » 28 Nov 2019, 4:53 pm

ScottyD wrote:Hmmm, as usual some excellent & helpful points raised. Thanks very much guys.

I think you might’ve hit one of the biggest issues with the two gun option right on the head GQshane. I can only carry one rifle at a time, and sure as s**t it’ll be the wrong one when it’s needed. So it looks like I’m back to the one gun route again.

I am pretty interested in the scout rifle concept, it seems to be the sort of tool with the flexibility I’m needing. And you’re right bigrich, the Ruger does look like a great example of the genre (I enjoyed reading about caveman’s Ruger scout in the scout rifle thread). I didn’t know it came with a 20” barrel, that does make it even more appealing. Especially if I go 308, which I’m starting to think might be best for when my only shot is a long one (might also help with pushing through bushes at shorter ranges too perhaps).
When it finally comes time to buy, I’m hoping to go and shoulder the different rifles, and see if there’s a discernible difference to the fit/handling for me. The Styer scout also has me curious, but it’s pretty bloody expensive. It’d have to be a pretty decent rifle to warrant that sort of expense.
I’ve also heard people recommending the Weatherby carbine, although it’s not really a scout type rifle (no detachable magazine nor option for forward mounted scope).

I’ll certainly keep your suggestions about the 40mm objective lense scopes for low light use Oldbloke, especially since I foresee those being exactly the times when I will most likely be going for a ‘quiet little wander’.

Very frustrating having to wait so long for my licence, I wish I’d started the process a lot sooner. Getting frequent sightings of three wild dogs hunting together along the gullies of our neighbours places across the road lately. My trigger finger is actually getting physically itchy.


i thought the ruger scout , 308 , 20" barrel fitted the requirments you listed . as OB pointed out , a versatile scope is needed for a versatile rifle . a bushnell trophy extreme 2.5-10x44 has a wide field of vision and magnification. their good for the money but they have a 30mm scope tube . just a few ideas for ya scottyD . the ruger was a little rough if cycled slow , slam it hard and it was fine , the trigger on mine had already been tweaked. but the accuracy was very good :thumbsup:
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Re: Newbie options - for pigs & feral dogs?

Post by GQshayne » 28 Nov 2019, 7:51 pm

A couple of points on scopes. Size of the objective is important, but needs to be considered in regards to the rest of the scope specifications. What you can google to read about is "exit pupil". The ideal for the human eye is considered to be 5mm. So to work out what a scope is capable of you divide the objective size by the magnification. So a 3-9 x 40 provides for a 5mm exit pupil at 8 power. My 1-6 x 24 provides a 5mm exit pupil at about 5 power. So both will work well in low light, in terms of "numbers". But the quality of the glass is a greater consideration in my experience. In low light, the big names show their true worth.

As for what magnification you need, that depends on what you want to do. For me, thick scrub means chasing pigs in lignum and in scrub thick enough that sometimes you can't walk through it, you have to go around it. A pig will jump out from under your feet, and sometimes you will be lucky to have two seconds to have a shot before it is gone. I used to practice specifically to be able to acquire a target and fire in two seconds at close range. For many years I had a two power wide angle scope which was pretty good. My one power scope is far superior. The field of view in this circumstance is a big advantage for target acquisition. Inside of 50m they are a big advantage on a moving target.
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Re: Newbie options - for pigs & feral dogs?

Post by Oldbloke » 29 Nov 2019, 1:54 am

Exit pupil is important, t hgats about making best use of what you have. But the size of the objective lens determines how much light the scope gathers to start with. (More important). The area or a 30mm is 706 mm and a 20mm is 314 mm, a big difference.

Just by changing the magnification of a variable you can change the exit pupil size. You cant change the objective.
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Re: Newbie options - for pigs & feral dogs?

Post by ScottyD » 29 Nov 2019, 5:10 pm

Ok, thanks for the info on scopes. Looks like I’ve got a lot to learn in that area too.

BTW what are your thought on red dot type scopes in this application (I realise it wouldn’t be much chop for long distance, but sense they might be really useful for those sudden close quarters encounters mentioned above)
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Re: Newbie options - for pigs & feral dogs?

Post by GQshayne » 29 Nov 2019, 8:04 pm

"Light gathering" is often referred to as a furphy too Oldbloke. I will admit to being on the fence nowadays. I used to agree with you 100%, but not certain now.

But I have absolutely no doubt at all that glass quality will win out. My 24mm Swarovski side by side with a 42mm Zeiss is pretty much equal in low light conditions. In the lower price brackets it may be different. But I would trade a bit of low performance for field of view for scrub hunting.

As for red dot stuff, a compromise is the illuminated reticle in a variable power scope. Great, especially as the light is dimming. I am a convert now after using scope without them for the last 35 years.
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Re: Newbie options - for pigs & feral dogs?

Post by Oldbloke » 29 Nov 2019, 8:18 pm

Just expressing an opinion. Since im not a physicist Im not arguing. Lol

There are many factors to consider.
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Re: Newbie options - for pigs & feral dogs?

Post by bigrich » 29 Nov 2019, 8:32 pm

decent qaulity glass definately pays dividends . it just depends on what your defintition of "decent qaulity " is ;)

i like leupolds myself , and they do a red dot that is fine enough for distance work

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Re: Newbie options - for pigs & feral dogs?

Post by Oldbloke » 29 Nov 2019, 9:08 pm

I think range and target species is important too. If your chasing pigs at 100 yards the need is completely different to rabbits at 300.
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Re: Newbie options - for pigs & feral dogs?

Post by Ferrisweil » 29 Nov 2019, 11:06 pm

You’re over thinking it... For what you’re doing, get your 243 or 308. (sounds like a 243 might suit you nicely)
Get your yourself a 3-9x40 or even a 2-10x50 (or thereabouts) and go get stuck into it. You can sit here and procrastinate all day, but really there’s no one gun that does it all.
I wouldn’t worry about low light applications either because really that “window” in the afternoon, where glass quality and objective lens makes a big difference, is such a small amount of time comparable to a whole night, it’s not gonna matter if you want to shoot in daylight or preferably at night time when everything is gonna be moving more. 2-7 will be great for daytime and at night, you can take close shots and a barrel mounted torch will still work well at night.
No doubt you’ll get into it and soon enough you’ll want NV or thermal and the scope debate will become less important.
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Re: Newbie options - for pigs & feral dogs?

Post by bigrich » 30 Nov 2019, 5:38 am

Oldbloke wrote:I think range and target species is important too. If your chasing pigs at 100 yards the need is completely different to rabbits at 300.


Absolutely OB . I think as shooters we should have our firearms carried around in a golf bag , so we can have the caddy hand us the “correct “ rifle for any given situation

:lol:
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Re: Newbie options - for pigs & feral dogs?

Post by GQshayne » 30 Nov 2019, 7:19 pm

Too right fellas, there is no golden rule that is for sure. All we can do is try and get the best compromise for what hunting we do.
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Re: Newbie options - for pigs & feral dogs?

Post by ScottyD » 01 Dec 2019, 9:35 am

Absolutely OB . I think as shooters we should have our firearms carried around in a golf bag , so we can have the caddy hand us the “correct “ rifle for any given situation

:lol:[/quote]

Hahaha that would solve a lot of my issues (well, the gun related ones anyway) :lol:
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Re: Newbie options - for pigs & feral dogs?

Post by bigrich » 01 Dec 2019, 9:49 am

ScottyD wrote:Absolutely OB . I think as shooters we should have our firearms carried around in a golf bag , so we can have the caddy hand us the “correct “ rifle for any given situation

:lol:


Hahaha that would solve a lot of my issues (well, the gun related ones anyway) :lol:[/quote]

having "gun bearers" like the days of old big game hunters :D

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Re: Newbie options - for pigs & feral dogs?

Post by Oldbloke » 01 Dec 2019, 10:19 am

ScottyD wrote:Our place is open countryside down around our house/yards, but quickly rises up into mountainous terrain with thickish bush. I guessing something good for midrange would be best.

Anyway looking forward to hearing your suggestions. My apologies if this is covered in another thread I've missed.


His target species are dog & pigs. Thick short range and open, longer range.

What i meant earlier is just select what is best suited. 223, should be ok for dogs but a bit light for larger pigs. Range is all over the shop from say 50 to say 200 mtres

Almost any cartridge with say 80 grain spire or heavier doing about 2600 fps or more will do the job. And there are a lot to pick from. But I believe u should pick a commonly used one, because easier and cheaper to buy ammo and components.
If Sambar or Reds are a possibility I would go 308 or bigger.

30.30 are great, had one. But due to blunt nose bullets limit range and BAs are generally more accurate than levers, so I would not go down that path.

Any half decent, reliable variable, 2-7×40 or 3-9×40 will do the job, they are not tiny targets. Personally I like 3-9×40.

Again we are not target shooting at 500. Any half decent modern bolt action with reloads will do the job.

Pay for more or better if you want but the rest is all BS
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Re: Newbie options - for pigs & feral dogs?

Post by bigrich » 01 Dec 2019, 10:39 am

best thing i can come up with ( besides the ruger 308 scout i suggested at the start ), would be maybe a tikka t3 stainless/synthetic in 6.5 CM ( insert man bun jokes here......... :lol: .) . affordable , light weight ,accurate, not big on recoil , off the shelf ammo (hornady , federal hunting ammo ), big enough for dogs and capable for average pigs . a HOWA is a cheaper option

scopes , well i think that's a individual choice. 3-9x40 as OB suggests would be the most flexiable while keeping weight down as well

actually , compared to 30 years ago , we're spoilt for choice with rifles and scopes these days

isn't it great :D :thumbsup: just a few suggestions :thumbsup:
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Re: Newbie options - for pigs & feral dogs?

Post by Oldbloke » 01 Dec 2019, 12:03 pm

Not familiar with 6.5 CM but looks fine on paper. Not so sure how easy/cheap ammo is though.
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