Penetration versus expansion .222 Rem

[Am88]

Am88 sharing that experience demonstrates that you have done a lot of damage control.Things happen when culling in the field.These are things that have happened to me all shots under 100 m which is what my .222 is zeroed for
.I have taken front on shots at less than 50 metres and must of scalped them as they have regained conciseness will hanging upside down with no organs.they dont last long but its distressing its happened twice
.I shot a large male grey down south and half the other side of its head was missing and fly blown dont know if it was me from earlier but disturbing all the same it makes you wonder what you are doing.99% its a bang flop the people that claim they never miss have never done it look away misses are common same as I learned that just before they go to move they drop a bit to load up their legs but you learn to read that same as you can tell when they are going to put the brakes on
.I culled a bit different from most I had a Nissan patrol ute and I would point the front bar spotlights on about 10-15% from centre to the right with the beam on top and the spreader below as that was where I wanted to shoot out the window and I would drive around with a handheld until I saw them then slide the rifle out put the spotties on then follow them till a shot was on.It worked for me as you could idle along until they stopped and choose the one you wanted.down south you have 3 seconds to get the shot off as they get shot at a bit and are nervous.Up north the reds just stand there as they are used to station utes and I have been 50 metres from a small mob with the engine running and spotlights on them and they have started feeding again.

I did figure it's happened to others but no one really speaks about it, they all speak about how good of a shot they are and things never happen but I beg to differ, that's a good way to put it how they drop to load up their legs before hopping. It tends to happen now that I think about it after a while and I tend to get a bit complacent in my actions then that's when it happens. I've been doing it about 4 years now so anywhere from 6500 to 8000 roos I guess, on a good weekend covering 44000 odd acres we will average 300 to 350.

I have done a bit more looking around and on this website actually someone stated that the Nosler Ballistic tip has a thicker base which should help with fragmenting maybe. Sometimes things happen however, an example would be I've actually come across a good mob of pigs once (well more then once) but this mob was just kind of trotting, loaded with my same roo loads, dropped 4 pigs with head shots at roughly 50m in quick succession and they dropped instantly just legs gave way, shot either just behind the eye or just in front of the ear, a roo with significantly smaller head structure and im guessing bone strength has incident stated. Like said sometimes bullets do funny things. Nosler need to make a 50gr Partition for cheap I reckon for certain situations.

[duncan61]

I use Remington PSP they were $17.95 a bag of 100 last time I stocked up

[Stix]

Bir243: "I accidentally broke the back of a fox on my last trip. It was lying down after the shot but with head held high and alert ...''

That perfectly describes the one I shot a few days ago.

As for position and point of impact it was exactly as described in my original post. I had been watching it eat cheap dog food for about 5 minutes through the scope before it turned to face uphill away from me so I had a clear view from base of tail to base of its neck. I was shooting off a set of quad stick rests while sitting - I might as well have been shooting off my bench and bags so stable are the sticks. [That's why I used the set trigger on the Anschutz; it is literally a hair-trigger.] It was a deliberate, measured shot and the centre of the large entrance wound was more less at the point I aimed. I suspect the main issue was the angle of flight [at 75 yards] so the bullet probably hit the animal at about 45 degrees or less from above directly along the line of the spinal column thus the round likely encountered more resistance from several vertebrae than if it had just hit one vertebral body at 90 degrees. I had assumed [in my inexperience] that my shot would penetrate through to the thorax, but it didn't. I will have to be more careful in future.

Jim

BIR243: "... perhaps the length of the spinal column was enough resistance for the lead to fragment before some of it could get to the vitals ... I suppose sometimes Bullets just don’t perform as expected."


Or perhaps bullet manufacturers don't expect [inexperienced] shooters to place a bullet where there is a mass of bone [along the spinal column] so their carefully designed bullet expands at the surface instead of in the internal organs?

It's been an interesting discussion,

Jim

Hey NTSOG...
I think its good that you think about the bullet impact & the end result...

But, i have to say, that in this case, the reason your bullet didnt penetrate, isnt because it was inadequate for the job, or, the angle of delivery, or that it had to/couldn't penetrate 3-4-or 5 vertebrae, or the range...infact, it also didnt have anything to do with the bullet design engineers not taking into account the acumen, trigger prowess, & general hands on skill of the shooter pinging out their bullet...
The reason the bullet ,didnt penetrate is because it hit one single hard bone, that happened to be immediately below the surface of the skin...& keep in mind, the exploded bullet takes the path of least resistance, which in this case happens to be open air--thus making the lack of penetration & effectivemess of the bullet infact look worse than actually is
Its really that simple...

Im not trying to be smart either...small calibre bullets are designed for rapid expansion on soft small creatures--so when you hit bone with that kind of bullet--particularly thick bone just below the surface, they will always explode right then & there...

If that bullet were designed to penetrate that bone (keep in mind, the vertebrae of almost any given fox is umpteen times thicker & harder than that of a the scapula (shoulderblade) of a decent sized goat or even Deer, while also having a skin that is MANY times thinner than all mentioned... ), you would be complaining about 99.9% of your shots pencilling through the bodies of everything else you shot & them running away to bleed out & die, leaving you wondering how many 'hits' you actually get in reality while in the feild..

My opinion... ...That bullet did what it was designed to do...
Take some confidence & knowledge out of what you've achieved, & knowing you can place a bullet so accurately at that range, next opportunity you get,out to 100 place the bullet a little to one side to avoid the spine...or if quartered on, sneak it just inside the shoulder to knock out a lung, or if broad side on, try smack the thick part of the shoulder so as to liquify the chest cavity & have no exit...

I think that bullet did what it was designed to do...i also think you did a super job of landing it where you did, if thats what you played for...
Dont make an alternate reality out of the results...
Absorb everything you can about the shot, the bullet, the hesitation in watching the fox before you took the shot, the panic when you realised it might get away & how you released the trigger when that happened, how long it stood there feeding before deciding to take off, & the behavior of the fox in all the camera footage...you'll gain much more wisdom out of that, than thinking the bullet is no good & making excuses for its lack of penetration.

[duncan61]

I have been in ambush on an afternoon where I have a beater pushing the roos toward me and have taken a shot on a good size male roo at 30 metres and it shook its head and stood there second shot dropped it and on inspection it had the right side of its head peppered with copper/lead fragments.I had hit a small branch and the 50gn PSP had exploded.I could not see the branch through the scope as it would have been out of focus.I am sure if I was using hollow points or nylon tipped bullets they would have retained enough to have done the job

[Stix]

I have been in ambush on an afternoon where I have a beater pushing the roos toward me and have taken a shot on a good size male roo at 30 metres and it shook its head and stood there second shot dropped it and on inspection it had the right side of its head peppered with copper/lead fragments.I had hit a small branch and the 50gn PSP had exploded.I could not see the branch through the scope as it would have been out of focus.I am sure if I was using hollow points or nylon tipped bullets they would have retained enough to have done the job

With respect...Unless you are/were using 30 cal FMJ ammo, you cant predict that Duncan... and even then you just never know...
You may well equally have horribly wounded the animal too...

[duncan61]

Agreed.bullets do what they do.I placed a mate in ambush and drilled him that the roos must be head shot or I can not sell them anyhoo I pushed the mob around to his area and I heard him take a shot.I already had one down and scored another as they came back my way.When I checked his roo I could not find a mark on it and he had shot it in the chest straight on and the bullet had hit the sternum and disintergrated its heart lungs for an almost instant kill and the internal spine area did not have a mark on it.I processed the carcass and sent it in no problem.I used to cart my H&R single shot Hornet so I could put one in the brain in these situations and still sell them.They were going for human consumption and the head stays on.I also terminated our sick cows with the hornet as I felt .22LR was to weak for a cows head but it isnt.I wanted a Hornet anyway

[Oldbloke]

If your worried just go up a size and reload 55gr

[NTSOG]

In Memoriam - another hungry fox.

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Some more ferals at the bait station this morning grazing my hay paddocks.

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G'day all,

I thought it would be appropriate if the 'hero' of this saga appeared for the sake of posterity. He's shown walking out of camera range in the bottom photo, following the bait trail higher up the paddock to where I could get a clear shot over the fence around the dam. I was sitting about 65 yards away across the dam from and in direct line with the camera. The light from the IR illuminator on my rifle can be seen to the right-middle of frame as I waited for him to come out into the open.

Stix, as you suggested from the start, it was all about the angle and site on the spine where the bullet hit. It was a good rifle shot in terms of accuracy, but a poor hunting shot in terms of placement.

This morning there was a mob of skippies awaiting me when I went out to check the camera at the bait station. They increased since a neighbour whacked 30 odd on his property.

Jim