Home made dog trapping lures,

[Grandadbushy]

Well BLr funny you should say that mate i have actually seen a bitch flog a pup within an inch of its life because it got too close to a bait , the farmer ties his baits up with wire and marks them with colored tape on the tree or fence, she walked out of a gully with about 5 pups ,one straggled behind and wandered over to the bait and was sniffing around the bait when the bitch slammed it from behind and ripped into it, when they walked back from the water hole the bitch kept to the pad yet when the straggler pup got close to the bait it walked out further until it got past the bait now there maybe more to the whipping the pup got but i still think the bitch was training the pup because she had survived in a heavily baited area that had been baited continuously over the years and twice in those 4mths leading up to me seeing this , i shot 11 dogs in 7 days on that block whilst the baits were set and this was happening, so yes i do think bitches train their pups to stay away from baits providing they themselves have had dealings with baits . Humans are taught not to touch certain poisonous things why wouldn't a bitch especially if she's seen some of her family die prior from baits . And animalpest you say most dogger/trappers have no proper training and experience and knowledge is limited, Jesus mate we are self opinionated aren't we, mate firstly if you use doggin for an income then you'd be mad to do it without knowledge you'd go broke secondly i wouldn't be making big statements like you just have cause there are a lot of people up here who would read your comment and die laughing you see we've delt with these type up here the read a book learn from a so called expert dogger come trapper , mate pass a thought '' How did these experts gain their knowledge'' i wonder how the old blokes caught dogs when most couldn't read their name so mate to me and all those inexperienced lacking in knowledge trapper/doggers will carry on and do things that work for us because most have succeeded in doing so and we know talk is cheap, i don't doubt your ability but you do make big statements about people you don't even know. now mate i'm not going to engage in a carry on debate about credentials of which you have aplenty judging what you have told us regularly so mate a little info ''if one in an experienced expert and teaching someone to operate a dozer then it only takes one a few minutes of talking to that person to know they know nothing or everything about operating a dozer'' likewise for old doggers/trappers

[Grandadbushy]

Geez BLr you are a quick learner mate

[animalpest]

Well Grandadbushhy, I certainly never said that most don't have experience or knowledge. I said most don't have training. But what I will say is that your good name, your reputation is everything to anyone in business. In some States, you can't get a licence to be a contract trappers without qualifications. That's a good thing. Think of mechanics, plumbers, electricians and other trades and professions, e.g accountants, financial advisers etc.

In some States you can set up your shingles and call yourself an expert dogger (or whatever) and have absolutely zero experience, training or qualifications. That is unfair on others. So unless it's word of mouth recommendations, how do you tell the charlatans from the good ones in today's crazy world of advertising?

There are plenty of trappers that are very experienced and very good. And there are plenty who think they know but don't know what they don't know.

I have come across plenty from both camps. But sometimes old wives tales becomes someone's gospel. Opposite to that is those who have only read it and think they know.

Normally there would be at least one in a group I train who cannot read or write. And they don't make any worse a dogger than anyone else as they just need to learn a different way than most. And often the worst are the highly educated ones because they often don't get the technical stuff.

Having trained, interviewed plenty for job vacancies from both those camps it is a very rare breed who has both attributes.

I was doing a contract and had some dead feral cats to weigh and do necropsies on. A lady was standing there watching for some time before she slowly reached down and gingerly touched one of the cats on the tail. I looked at her and she said it was the first feral cat she had seen or touched. Funning thing was she was some years into doing her PhD. On feral cats.

There was an ABC news article that said "meet Australia's best dogger". It was based the fact he caught 600 dog's per year. Firstly, being in a very target rich environment probably means any mug could readily catch dog's. Just ignore the difficult ones. Secondly, why aren't dog numbers declining?

Everyone can learn more. Including me!

[Grandadbushy]

Yeah animalpest , like i said before, i won't enter into a pissing contest with you , other than that this post is starting to sound like the covid vaccine roll out it's got more excuses than a kindergarten and 600 dogs a year , i'd put him up in the top doggers in Australia and not leaving too many hard to get ones but what would i know i've had no formal trapper/dogger training maybe i should give it up and start training potential trapper/doggers

[animalpest]

Nah, being able to trap is a good thing. Keep it up!

[CT hillbilly]

I’m not a trappers ar$e hole but I take in everything I’m told/taught and just have a good go I’ve made mistakes and watched dogs on cam shy away from my trap only then realising what I have done wrong I took this up because it interests me and helps out farmers and native wildlife not to mention the fact that I will continue learning as long as my butt points to the ground and sh$t I love seeing a puppy on a string!!!!!

[CT hillbilly]

For example here always check your pan tension

[animalpest]

Yep, always check your pan tension for sure.
I am off out to the desert tomorrow to do some dog's, foxes, cats and camels.

[CT hillbilly]

Good stuff mate hope ya get a few

[ZaineB]

Yep, always check your pan tension for sure.
I am off out to the desert tomorrow to do some dog's, foxes, cats and camels.

drive safe mate with all that rain and weather inbound!

[animalpest]

Yeah looking forward to the 20 odd hours in the saddle. Not.

But hey, dog's, cats and camels. Hmm so which rifles shall I take?

And what lures?

[Die Judicii]

I didn't think there would be any ferals left in the Wait Awhile state.

[ZaineB]

I didn't think there would be any ferals left in the Wait Awhile state.

my cousin has shot over 500 foxes on one property since jan, plenty of them.

[Grandadbushy]

AH animalpest i wouldn't worry about a gun or trap, just take a drum of petrol out with you, put a drinking trough out in the open fill it full of petrol and let them all have a good drink then chase them around for awhile until they run out of petrol then you can just go around and pick them up, too easy

[Die Judicii]

AH animalpest i wouldn't worry about a gun or trap, just take a drum of petrol out with you, put a drinking trough out in the open fill it full of petrol and let them all have a good drink then chase them around for awhile until they run out of petrol then you can just go around and pick them up, too easy

Mebbe add some green anti freeze so they think they are getting a "cocktail",
Or should that be hyphenated,,,,,,, "Cock- Tale"

[Grandadbushy]

Jesus DJ run that by me again i couldn't read the post for laughing

[Die Judicii]

Jesus DJ run that by me again i couldn't read the post for laughing

My sincere A- Pologies

[animalpest]

I think the antifreeze is a good idea. But knowing what the desert is like at this time of the year, it might be me needing to drink it

[Grandadbushy]

I don't know about ''Antifreeze'' DJ but ''coolant'' is good in winter it freezes the nuts off them nah serious in dry weather we put it in an empty ice cream container and we generally get a few dogs, a lot of blokes up here use it among other things but it has to be undiluted , for some reason they'll drink it instead of going for water i didn't believe it when i heard about it but i put a container at a place where a bitch and 4, 5mth old pups were they drank the coolant and in 4-5 days all were dead where they camped around the container, there was no sign of struggle it looked like they'd just lay down and went to sleep not like 1080 or sap they go mad you can see they died in pain by all the scratch marks and flattened grass when you find them

[animalpest]

Unlike strychnine 1080 doent cause pain. It disrupts their central nervous system, that's why they yelp and run all over the place.

[CT hillbilly]

They drink coolant FTW !!!!!!!

[Grandadbushy]

Well animalpest i don't know where you got that info from on 1080 has no pain attached to it's killing effect mate, yet i agree it hits the nerve system so i've been in a ute when a dog ''domestic'' died from 1080 , we used to kill a steer and take it to the airstrip and the vet used to fly in and inject the meat pieces we had cut prior to him arriving we used to put it into bags a bag for each paddock then put them into the cruiser ute one would drive the other would throw the pieces of meat out , being donned in hat, face mask, raincoat and boots all for saftey not to come into contact with the 1080, we would space the pieces of meat out like one every 200yds or so, so after we had done all the paddocks we were going to do we went back to the yards and burnt the stuff the thrower was wearing cleaned the ute or so it was thought there was the tiniest piece the ringers had missed not knowing this we headed back to the homestead i had my dog tied in the back and it was this she found , unbeknown to us she picked it up it wasn't long down the track she started fitting and bloke i can tell you if you say 1080 doesn't give pain then you know nothing of this poison, what me and 2 other ringers witnessed was nothing short of agony , she regurgitated the meat while she was dying, 1080 produces no pain is garbage in the least in my opinion

[Die Judicii]

I am not knowledgeable on 1080,,,,,,,,, but it took only a few minutes to dredge the following information. (FWIW)

Pestsmart (Google)

Sodium Fluoracetate. Re:dogs.

"After the toxin takes effect the dog is initially disorientated and then becomes unconscious and while unconscious it cannot perceive pain."

(thus one could presume that it DOES cause pain,,,,,,,, but usually it cannot perceive it. There seems no mention of whether the above
is the norm, nor frequently nor occasionally.)

"No research studies have either proved or disproved the distress or pain of herbivores and omnivores poisoned by 1080."

Nb: Given that dogs do eat grasses, plants, fruit and meat means that they would fit comfortably under the classification of omnivores for the sake of this
discussion.

AP,,,,, It may be better if you didn't so often rely on "blanket" "one size fits all" type statements.

[Grandadbushy]

Well DJ to me it sounds like the dogs die before telling anyone they were in pain, yep silly me lol

[Die Judicii]

Yeah looking forward to the 20 odd hours in the saddle. Not.

Literally "20 odd hours in the saddle" meaning horse back ? For a successful businessman would not a muster/chopper be a better choice?

"20 odd hours in the saddle" meaning vehicle ? Yet again most people would think chopper or plane would be more viable.

Your client/s must be extremely wealthy or you must be ridiculously cheap.

One of my daughters lives and operates in WA, ( a health professional ) and her jurisdiction covers the top 2/3 of WA.
And to do so efficiently she has never had anything like 20 hrs in the "saddle"

[ZaineB]

Well animalpest i don't know where you got that info from on 1080 has no pain attached to it's killing effect mate, yet i agree it hits the nerve system so i've been in a ute when a dog ''domestic'' died from 1080 , we used to kill a steer and take it to the airstrip and the vet used to fly in and inject the meat pieces we had cut prior to him arriving we used to put it into bags a bag for each paddock then put them into the cruiser ute one would drive the other would throw the pieces of meat out , being donned in hat, face mask, raincoat and boots all for saftey not to come into contact with the 1080, we would space the pieces of meat out like one every 200yds or so, so after we had done all the paddocks we were going to do we went back to the yards and burnt the stuff the thrower was wearing cleaned the ute or so it was thought there was the tiniest piece the ringers had missed not knowing this we headed back to the homestead i had my dog tied in the back and it was this she found , unbeknown to us she picked it up it wasn't long down the track she started fitting and bloke i can tell you if you say 1080 doesn't give pain then you know nothing of this poison, what me and 2 other ringers witnessed was nothing short of agony , she regurgitated the meat while she was dying, 1080 produces no pain is garbage in the least in my opinion

Ive seen a lot of animals die of both, and would say that strychnine is faster and less agonizing to watch thats for sure, have seen dogs take hours to die from 1080 and you can see it in their eyes looking at you in desperation, whereas every single strychnine poisoning I have seen has usually resulted in a very quick death under 10 mins. (two dogs only strychnine, sadly blokes using it and having their dogs in tow, and not being vigilant, get a call on the two way to come back and help, but nothing ya can do)

[Grandadbushy]

Yes ZaineB i agree, and vigilance was lacking the day i lost my bitch you can rest assured those young ringers will never forget that episode , i had her locked in a cage on the back of my ute while we run the baits and only let her out after all was deemed safe but mate i should have checked because they were only young and the first time baiting there so i have to wear some blame but in the end the one who paid dearly was my bitch, i'd done what i'd always done when baiting but had new help this time which proved fatal,

[animalpest]

By 20 hrs in the saddle I mean the vehicle seat. According to Google Maps it's 22 hrs 6 min without stopping from home to the nearest point near the job. There is no point taking a chopper if I need boots on the ground to do the work with all the sundry equipment you need. It is not unusual for our vehicles be 3500km from home. Commonly we are 12-16 hours drive from the office on a job. Used to love it but hate it now.

There has been a lot of research on 1080, including it's humaneness on animals since it was first trialled as a rabbit bait back in 1953 in the southwest of WA. There are also documented cases of accidental poisoning in humans that survived near fatal doses. The late Dr Denis King and others did much research dosing animals to determine how much 1080 it took to kill them. Stuart Wheeler, Laurie Twigg and Peter Thomson did a lot of research on rabbits, foxes, pigs, dingoes, 1080 on native fauna etc from the 1960's onwards. Obviously much was also learnt on the symptoms and other effects when doing these lab and field trials. King's research led to better ways of dosing animals and checking LD50 doses without having to resort to killing them. (King was first to hypothesis that WA native animals evolved a tolerance to 1080)

Dog's, even though they may occasionally have vegetation in their stomach are not ominvores. They are classed as carnivores. While the info from Pestsmart is correct, they refer to research on pain in herbivores and ominvores, but research on carnivores is well documented and published.

How animals die from 1080 is dependent on whether they are carnivores, ominvores or herbivores. It's affect on the body differs. 1080 suppresses the CNS while strychnine is a stimulant.

1080 takes much longer than strychnine because the chemical composition of 1080 needs to change when it enters the body before it can work.

While the effects on animals looks terrible, it's effects on the central nervous system make it look much worse than the animal feels. There no evidence of animals like dog's feeling pain and that is the accepted concensus from researchers, even those in animal welfare.

This is not my feelings on the subject but is based on many peer reviewed research papers.

[Die Judicii]

By 20 hrs in the saddle I mean the vehicle seat. According to Google Maps it's 22 hrs 6 min without stopping from home to the nearest point near the job. There is no point taking a chopper if I need boots on the ground to do the work with all the sundry equipment you need. It is not unusual for our vehicles be 3500km from home. Commonly we are 12-16 hours drive from the office on a job. Used to love it but hate it now.
So with multiple vehicles, "3500km from home" + running costs + employee wage/salaries + insurances + permits where applicable, + sustenance + return,,,,
and obviously being the absolute bare minimum in required stores, supplies, and equipment must amount to a considerable outlay.
Surely the pay check must be written by a Sheik ?
To be the other way would be totally beyond the realms of ridiculously cheap.
Just out of curiosity (for myself),, and for future prospective customers,, what is the name of this business/venture/enterprise ???

There has been a lot of research on 1080, including it's humaneness on animals since it was first trialled as a rabbit bait back in 1953 in the southwest of WA. There are also documented cases of accidental poisoning in humans that survived near fatal doses. The late Dr Denis King and others did much research dosing animals to determine how much 1080 it took to kill them. Stuart Wheeler, Laurie Twigg and Peter Thomson did a lot of research on rabbits, foxes, pigs, dingoes, 1080 on native fauna etc from the 1960's onwards. Obviously much was also learnt on the symptoms and other effects when doing these lab and field trials. King's research led to better ways of dosing animals and checking LD50 doses without having to resort to killing them. (King was first to hypothesis that WA native animals evolved a tolerance to 1080)

Dog's, even though they may occasionally have vegetation in their stomach are not ominvores. They are classed as carnivores. While the info from Pestsmart is correct, they refer to research on pain in herbivores and ominvores, but research on carnivores is well documented and published.

How animals die from 1080 is dependent on whether they are carnivores, ominvores or herbivores. It's affect on the body differs. 1080 suppresses the CNS while strychnine is a stimulant.

1080 takes much longer than strychnine because the chemical composition of 1080 needs to change when it enters the body before it can work.

While the effects on animals looks terrible, it's effects on the central nervous system make it look much worse than the animal feels. There no evidence of animals like dog's feeling pain and that is the accepted concensus from researchers, even those in animal welfare.
No evidence for or against so it seems.
Praps you could expand on this to those whom have first hand experience that seemingly denounce that which has been said here.

This is not my feelings on the subject but is based on many peer reviewed research papers.

[on_one_wheel]

When I first started out setting dog traps, my boss told me "be careful, if you stuff up and get snapped by one of those traps don't bother calling for help, you'll be dead before anyone can help you" (dog fence, SA)
All the traps out there had strychnine laced rags wired around the jaws... for obvious reasons I didn't test his theory.
We had all the nasties out there, made our own 1080 baits, had cyanide, strychnine, Luci-Jet.

Trapping a dog would make you an instant local celebrity because no one out there at that time had a clue about the impacts and strength of their own scent, traps would sit there set for months with nothing but dog prints walking circles around the trap.
We used some funky scents on some traps that gained a lot of interest from the dogs, one stank like rotten eggs, the tiniest smear would stink a vehicle cab to high heaven

I've learnt a bit since, there's a reason dogs are used to sniff out drugs, bombs, bodies, truffles, cash, bottle tops ...anything you want to train them for, there sense of smell is soo good theres no masking our own scent, you have to be so careful to the point of ensuring your ground mat always goes down the same way and is folded after use in such a way that the top (your scent side) doesn't touch the ground side. You simply can't be too careful.

Iv also read that using urine collected from a bitch in heat is a great lure... must be fun trying to collect it, im guessing they cage a bitch for long enough and eventually she goes?