Home made dog trapping lures,

[CT hillbilly]

Ok would anyone else like to share any lures they have made for trapping dogs, cats or foxes??? The lure my wife made to catch the last bitch in my posts( trapping dogs in Queensland) was a basic one made from sausage fat ( after cooked) blood from defrosted meat , steak from memory with 2-3 blobs of tomato and barbecue sauce, 5 drops of vanilla essence done put in a squeeze sauce bottle and left out in the sun for around 4 weeks until everything melts together to a liquid and add about 2-3 tablespoons to a log on your set so it soaks in and hangs on the log better, I’m sharing this to help everyone try and knock down a few more dogs cheers joe,

[Die Judicii]

Ok would anyone else like to share any lures they have made for trapping dogs, cats or foxes??? The lure my wife made to catch the last bitch in my posts( trapping dogs in Queensland) was a basic one made from sausage fat ( after cooked) blood from defrosted meat , steak from memory with 2-3 blobs of tomato and barbecue sauce, 5 drops of vanilla essence done put in a squeeze sauce bottle and left out in the sun for around 4 weeks until everything melts together to a liquid and add about 2-3 tablespoons to a log on your set so it soaks in and hangs on the log better, I’m sharing this to help everyone try and knock down a few more dogs cheers joe,

Joe,
Your recipe may well work (for one dog/trapping) however I would daresay it wouldn't persist.
That is; it would have to be reapplied,, and the more you return to reapply,, the more scent etc you leave behind.

I say this due to simple observations.
Have you ever spilt stuff like milk, cream, blood etc on eg: concrete ?
When a dog comes along and finds it,, it will lick that concrete until it is "polished", and won't leave till there is no more scent of it left.

I guess it would work well on an individual trap setting.

[CT hillbilly]

Yeah ya right, but as I’m only a rec trapper they are only in the ground for around a week to 10 days in one area then we move to different locations and properties and reset

[Die Judicii]

Yeah ya right, but as I’m only a rec trapper they are only in the ground for around a week to 10 days in one area then we move to different locations and properties and reset

Ten days ???????
The/your scent would have only just gone or subsided by then.

[animalpest]

Your own scent last 2-3 days at the trap if you use basic ways to minimise it. No more.

Reluring needs to be done every week to 10 days to be best. If there is heavy rain it will probably need replacing.

Some lures can be made to last longer but the level of volatility of the scents determines both how much you use and how long it lasts.

Mixing different scents into lures requires a fair degree of knowledge in chemistry due to differing bases. This changes their scent and how long they last. Somes scents and bases change how other parts of the lure works.

Cold weather lures require different bases than hot weather lures. In cold weather you need to increase the volatility of the scents ( the may not smell enough) but in hot weather they may need toning down or they will be lost too quick.

[Die Judicii]

Your own scent last 2-3 days at the trap if you use basic ways to minimise it. No more. .

I would respectfully dispute that,,,,,, with back up evidence to quote (if I had it in my hands at the moment, which I don't) and I'm not
gonna spruke by memory alone.

Stay tuned,,,,,,,,,,, as they say.

[animalpest]

Please do I can quote not only research from the USA from 12,000 trap night's but also our own database from 93,000 trap nights on foxes and dogs.

If you are leaving scent that lasts longer than that then you need to look at what you are doing wrong.

[CT hillbilly]

I have had most of my catches within the first 1-3 nights so I must be doing something right to minimise my sent, I’m having fun experimenting with lures, trying them on my home dogs then running them in the bush and I can fully see how a good lure takes time skill and effort to get it right

[Die Judicii]

As I said previously, with regard to how long a scent can last and your claim that it "can last 2-3 days no more"

Doberman Pinscher dogs have been used as Tracking dogs, Police Dogs, and rescue dogs since well before WW 1
They were also used very successfully against the Japanese during WW 2 by the USA and in particular at the Bougainville beach head.
The USA also used them extensively with paratroopers as part of the K-9 Corp.

To demonstrate the longevity of scent lasting LONGER THAN 2-3 DAYS

I hereby quote from pages 100 and 101, of "The Complete Doberman Pinscher"

" Dr. Bruckner was the chief of the German Army Dog staff during World War 2 and commanded the 45,000 dogs in service during that time. He has known a great many dogs, and declares that the best Doberman of them all was Ajax v. Elsterstrand, known as Casar. Casar was a messenger dog of the highest quality and transmitted his abilities to his get, notably his son Rino. Both of these Dobermans were awarded gold medals at the Grune Woch show in Berlin in 1939.
Casar would carry a message over a distance of 10 1/2 miles in the average of three quarters of an hour. Once in the summer of 1938 he completed the distance at night in only 30 minutes ! This is an outstanding performance and indicates extraordinary stamina and endurance.
It is likewise claimed that Casar succeeded in following a special trail over half a mile long, laid on dry ground in a pine wood after a period of 90 days, and another track on a wet lawn after 46 days, although other dogs failed at the end of five. "

[animalpest]

As I said, if you take normal precaution in not leaving scent, then it will only last 3 days.

Dragging your ars* over the ground, walking around through the bush and long grass at your traps set, touching everything with bare hands, not using a kneeling pad, having soil from your trap hole touching your legs, sweating onto the soil around your trap, having more that one person at the site, going back to your vehicle multiple times, spending excessive amount of time setting the trap will all leave excessive scent from you.

Remove everything you have touched or throw it down wind. If you need more soil, only get it from down wind.

Having trapping gear that's not clean. Clean it if it has been used at another trap that has caught.

Having your traps or trapping gear next to your smelly lures in the back of the Ute.

Filling you diesel vehicle with fuel and using those same contaminated boots at your trap site (look at how much diesel is on the ground at the pump!).

Avoid setting traps from mid afternoon onwards.

Basic stuff for trapping.

Do these things to minimise scent-load and your scent will then be gone in 2-3 days.

The situation describing Ceasar doesn't say what scent was used so is not relevant.

[Blr243]

We all know pigs often follow the same pads to and from bedding and feeding areas when life is cruisy and nobody is hammering them .....the pads are visible. We walk them too. There is a certain bare paddock I watch at night thru my thermal. This paddock has great tucker to the west of it and good bedding down spots in the thick bush to the east .....but the pigs don’t beeline from the bedding areas straight across the bare paddock to the food. It would save them a ton of walking if they did. They just meander across as best they can and eventually they get there. They only travel across this bare paddock at night When they feel safer because there’s too many people like me bothering them ....... time and time again they follow the same route , always using the scent of themselves left behind From previous to guide them , never taking short cuts. There simply is no other way they could navigate a freshly ploughed field the same way every night. .....if I look at my favourite feed paddock on google earth there is actually a pad so well worn from pigs it’s clearly visible on google earth. It’s amazeing. First time in my life I have seen one so well defined ..... this post has bugger all to do with dogs and 2/3 days scent ... it’s just how I ramble on the weekend during rainy covid lock downs

[Die Judicii]

The point at hand was,,,,, and is,,,,,,,,,,,
That scent can last/persist for more than 2-3 days regardless of how,, which is "relevant"

[animalpest]

I am talking about the scent left when trapping. And lures made for trapping.

That is the relence of my post (about your scent left when trapping) and that is what I am referring to when saying your scent only lasts 2-3 days.

Taking a snippet and making it the point is misquoting.

If I pee or poo near my trap then that will last longer than 3 days. I place my dirty socks there the scent will last longer than 3 days. But it's not relevant to my post.

Maybe you should read my post as it is clear what I said.

Wild dog's and foxes can smell many scents that are much older than 3 days.

[Die Judicii]

As I said, if you take normal precaution in not leaving scent, then it will only last 3 days..

So, do we all take what you say at face value ?

If so, on what basis do you derive so ?
And where are the quotes you've referred to that back up that which you say?

[CT hillbilly]

This may be a start, this big20kg+ male was trapped last night 2 days after I trapped the young bitch in my last post, I have been all over the trap site moving the dog and resetting the trap with all steps in play mentioned by AP and not a drama getting another dog? Same trap same trap site and not to mention a bitch dog sitting with him while he’s trapped for a long time on trail cam, I expect her in the next day or 2

[animalpest]

CT hillbilly - "remakes" catch far more dog's because of the huge amount of scent left there from the last dog trapped.

Die Judici - you can take it or leave it. When I train people to be professional doggers, I don't reference everything I say back to published research papers or our huge data base we have, or why during my 40 years experience do I say that.

I will make one exception. One of my staff (A zoologist) has spent months entering the data from our last couple of years of trapping. We interrogate that data to determine trends in lures used, trap sets, clean traps/dirty traps/ remakes and trap/nights for captures and much more. This data is collected by my 6 trappers. The data is scientifically accurate as it is collected in a standard format and the data set is amply large enough to be statistically valid.
Additionally, I base this on the collective knowledge of 27 doggers, employees of a State government that totalled the equivalent of 1000 years of knowledge and that government agency training.

[Die Judicii]

Die Judici - you can take it or leave it. When I train people to be professional doggers, I don't reference everything I say back to published research papers or our huge data base we have, or why during my 40 years experience do I say that.

I will make one exception. One of my staff (A zoologist) has spent months entering the data from our last couple of years of trapping. We interrogate that data to determine trends in lures used, trap sets, clean traps/dirty traps/ remakes and trap/nights for captures and much more. This data is collected by my 6 trappers. The data is scientifically accurate as it is collected in a standard format and the data set is amply large enough to be statistically valid.
Additionally, I base this on the collective knowledge of 27 doggers, employees of a State government that totalled the equivalent of 1000 years of knowledge and that government agency training.

No need to clamber up on the box mate,,,,,
You made a statement which I refuted,, backed up with a reference that can be verified by every day people.

Even though you claimed to be able to do the same yourself,,,,,,, you didn't; end of story, I'm moving along.

[animalpest]

I see. So what some German said during WWII is accepted as the truth. But what I say, backed by my evidence and experience is not. think some just can't accept people who know better. Move along

[Oldbloke]

No expert here. But TBO, both could be right.
It would depend very heavily on what scent is left. And weather.
If the ww11 dog was following a scent trail of sardine oil, the result would be very different to some of my boot prints.

I went out with a hound team for a few months many moons ago. Scent trailing fox hounds chasing sambar. The scent had to be fairly fresh, say no more than 16 hours. (From memory, so could be out a bit) After that the hounds struggled. But they are only scenting hoof prints. .

The other thing is I think both rain and the sun (UV light) remove/reduce scent.
Rain dilutes the particles and sun kills the bacteria that cause some of the scent.
Umm, wind to if chasing

Just saying.

Happy to be corrected.

[Grandadbushy]

G'day gents this is a very interesting subject happening here firstly i don't read about how to hunt wild dogs or take much heed to some so called ''Professional'' shooters unless they have proven themselves on the art of facts, now hunting wild dogs is not rocket science to the dedicated and there is no set way of trapping or shooting but luck can be a big factor. You can take what you wish from what i write here and that is your choice but i have found that there are so many traits a dog has and mostly individual traits at that, i started shooting dogs when i was around 12 and am still doing it at 67 , when i first started i done what i was told, 0n how to trap dogs , ie keep scent down to minimum, good bait and use natural bait, now over the years i've changed a few things due to experience like whilst scent is a factor it;s no where as important as some think, the most important thing in my ''opinion'' is where you set the trap to that scent, why i say this is for many years i haven't worn boots to set traps or gloves and still get plenty of dogs even the rogue ones you see some people don't take into account that some dogs have enough contact with humans that a little scent will not distract them from the natural instinct to eat, for example take a look at the dingoes on Frazer island here in QLD there's been a fatality and bites to people so plenty of scent there and broard daylight, i've trapped dogs out west and they do react some, to scent but when i set those traps i wipe my feet on a diesel rag and wipe my hands with it as well '' don't flood the rag with fuel just a little'' my opinion is anyone who claims that a set way is the right way to trap dogs would have only read it from a book because there is no set way just a good way and it can be changed to suit the different traits of the individual dog being hunted, over the years i've collected samples ,scat, dna, tissue for a council and they were sent to a university for testing one of the people doing this with my samples at the university actually tagged and put several dogs on an island up here to test on how they would fix the goat problem on that island this was not a roaring success because with all the knowledge they had they forgot the main trait of a wild dog and that was they're ''opportunists'' meaning they'll eat the easiest meal ie birds, lizards, marsupials and so on so you see what i'm saying they eat all the small native animals before chasing the goals so this is what can happen when you underestimate wild dogs like them not being able to find scent after 3 days, they find what they want , where they want and as often as they want they haven't survived this long by disagreeing with what they can smell or can't find like ''some species'' these training sessions people do for some in my opinion give the very basics of trapping the rest is to find a trapper and go with them or maybe do it yourself and learn for yourself but when you get to the stage where you think you know everything there is to know then you have just started to understand the wild dog and your second stage of learning will begin

[Grandadbushy]

CT Hillbilly good on ya mate fair sized dog there , you've just made a good day for a farmer somewhere,. cheers

[animalpest]

Grandadbushy - yes there are some good points there.
Firstly, how long your scent lasts depends on the weather. Hot weather with wind it will disappear quicker. This is no different to the lure you use at the trap. And the point is that the only scent you have left at the trap is from your boots - everything else should be removed.
Secondly the scent you leave may or may not bother dog's. It will depend on what they are used to. Foxes are far better at detecting your scent left compared to dog's. But leaving the minimum amount is important.
Thirdly I agree that training sessions of an hour or three will give some basic tips. For farmers etc that can actually help or it can be a hindrance. Nothing worse than having to chase dog's that someone has educated to traps.
Lastly, yup, those who trap and only know one trap-set will come to grief. You need to be able to set different styles to suit differing country and dog behaviour.

Which brings us back to lures. Have 3-4 different lures on your truck. One may be your usual lure and the others are your "change up" lures. These used when you miss a dog at a trap (it may ignore that lure after that as his curiosity has been satisfied) and are used when the dog ignores your lure.

[Grandadbushy]

Yes animalpest weather is a major contribute to scent strength but that goes without saying as it does for any other hunting when the weather changes also as i see it people ie dog hunters can put too much emphasis on scent depletion over a period of time, to prove my point the next dog you shoot take a piece of sticky tape and take a print of the dogs paw leave it for however you like ie 5mths or more then stick it to a post in your yard where your male dog can reach it and i can tell you he will piss on it because he will smell the wild dog still you see this is why we have to be careful of what we read about scent in books the book is not always right but on saying that the weather, sun, rain does have an affect on scent strength but takes a very long time to erode the scent with water being the best in my opinion and experience

[Oldbloke]

Yes animalpest weather is a major contribute to scent strength but that goes without saying as it does for any other hunting when the weather changes also as i see it people ie dog hunters can put too much emphasis on scent depletion over a period of time, to prove my point the next dog you shoot take a piece of sticky tape and take a print of the dogs paw leave it for however you like ie 5mths or more then stick it to a post in your yard where your male dog can reach it and i can tell you he will piss on it because he will smell the wild dog still you see this is why we have to be careful of what we read about scent in books the book is not always right but on saying that the weather, sun, rain does have an affect on scent strength but takes a very long time to erode the scent with water being the best in my opinion and experience

As Jack Little said. WOW

[animalpest]

It's better to place too much emphasis on your scent rather than too little. With experience you will reduce doing what isn't needed. Better that than starting with poor technique and then having to correct mistakes.

For example, some will read that you need to dye your traps. The dye does nothing except make the trap less visable. Not needed when your traps are buried.

[Grandadbushy]

Yes animalpest that's precisely my point there is no single trick to trapping or shooting wild dogs , scent duration times depend on what book you reed and who you listen to and weather and no 2 opinions will be the same in most cases and the emphasis on not enough or too much comes with being doubtful in the first place yet if one is experienced as they claim then they would know what is required and what they can get away with but even so you'll find even then it will have to be altered to a degree at times to compensate for individual traits in individual dogs then it comes down to the individual trapper/shooter with what works for them

[animalpest]

No, if you always work expecting a difficult dog then you will never be wrong.

The problem is either being complacent or expecting this one to be simple/easy one.

ALWAYS put a trap in as though this is your best trap ever.

Most trappers/doggers have little if any proper training. Many States have no requirements for accredited training or qualifications before you can call yourself a contractor. So their experience and knowledge is limited to their ...limited experiences!

I once had an employee who said that without doubt the best lure was kangaroo on foxes. Looking through his trapping record sheets, that's all he used. Of course it caught more!

Bias in memory means you THINK something is right because of recent memories or biases in how you work. The only real right answers are those based on the careful, non-biased collection of data.

Data informs you and is not biased on personal options. For example, I can tell that there is a difference between left foot and right foot captures based on the age and sex of dog's and foxes. Not what I think, but what data tells me is the facts.

Recently I have had doggers tell me that 1) 1080 doesn't work as the amount of 1080 in the bottle varies ( based on colour ; 2) strychnine is no good anymore as dog's are still alive in the trap ; 3) the dog on the farm is a bitch, she has pups (it's the only dog within 30km and its summer) and she will be hard to catch and won't kill sheep because bitches don't eat much. Yup

[Blr243]

Calling all dingo / wild dog enthusiasts......I once heard or read that sometimes a bitch will train her pups not to eat poisoned baits( Assuming she knows about it herself) what do you reckon about that ? I have no idea, just asking ...

[animalpest]

Blr243 that can certainly happen. More often it is because she got sick from a sub-lethal dose or he previous pups got poisoned.
In most circumstances, young dogs and pups are the first to go.

I have had instances where a bitch wont walk in the same place twice. She will cross the country at a slightly different place every time. And you will never see her along a track, but will cross it to be on the track for the least possible time.

They can get smart if they have the chance. Although dingoes are highly intelligent animals.

[Blr243]

When u mention a dog avoiding a certain part of a track , I I tried to think of a situation where that might apply to me in civilian, human life. Very quickly I remembered a certain female staff member at my local favourite Bunnings store ..her incompetence cost me a lot of money ..I despise her so much I do everything I can possible to place as much distance between her and myself ....she is like molten lava, poison or disease , and makes me very uncomfortable....the two hundred others that work there are totally fine