Codes of Practice and Standard Operating Procedures

Varminting and vertebrate pest control. Small game, hunting feral goats, foxes, dogs, cats, rabbits etc.

Codes of Practice and Standard Operating Procedures

Post by animalpest » 19 Jul 2021, 4:41 pm

I have noticed a fair few posts, both new and old, that refer to people using varying calibres, different bullet weights and configurations on pest animals, on shooting animals that are on the run, and general discussions on complying with animal welfare laws. The issue of head shooting kangaroos or not, and the national Code of Practice has also been previously discussed.

What I am interested in knowing is -

1 Do shooters read the various national Codes of Practice and/or Standard Operating Procedures (SoP)? E.g. the Kangaroo National Code? The SoP's for Ground shooting of feral camels, Model code of practice for the control of feral pigs, Ground shooting of feral horses, etc, and

2 Do you agree with what they say?

3 Or even should they exist at all?
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Re: Codes of Practice and Standard Operating Procedures

Post by Larry » 19 Jul 2021, 5:09 pm

Well if you are going to be legal and get a permit to cull indigenous species you will be sent the code and all the conditions. I think the fact you wanted to be legal in the first place would mean you are likely to read it.
.
The real question is how many people actually abide by the code and if they agree with it or not is more shown through their actions.

Personally at 200yrds depending on the need if I was using a 308 then with an appropriate bullet then a chest shot may be acceptable in my book, Not on moving target however still a well placed shot.
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Re: Codes of Practice and Standard Operating Procedures

Post by bigrich » 19 Jul 2021, 5:11 pm

i haven't read the codes AP , i'm a recreational hunter who defers to use too much gun than not enough . you've sparked my interest to make sure i am compliant . generally i don't take risky shots . i try to use a bit of logic and common sense with regards to hunting
i feel we do need rules , sop's are a neccessity to keep the rspca and anti hunting groups happy about things being conducted in a humane manner .
anyway, i will be following this topic to learn a bit more :thumbsup:
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Re: Codes of Practice and Standard Operating Procedures

Post by ZaineB » 19 Jul 2021, 5:11 pm

Im on the fence as the "GROUND SHOOTING OF CAMELS (CAM001)" cites in a manner that can and would be interpreted (due to mitigating factors of how many people encounter camels). That no camels be left injured, hence why I do not advocate for the lesser powered 30cal rifles in such situations, on sandy country where you can "round up" the camels headshots are all too easy, but average joe plodding along with his 308 would be better off leaving larger animals be if he cant pursue them due to terrain, Personally I load 225gr mono's in my 300 with substantially more oomph than the 308 has at 150 to 168 grains which is average joes 308 bullet. and even this on larger animals can feel a little underpowered, however I personally don't have any issue hitting what I am aiming at. I am not alone in this including the experience and so forth of many station owners I personally know. most have 40+ cal firearms for this purpose, that or 338 or 375 and up in various cartridges.

roos I don't like shooting unless for an express purpose, so even if a farmer has a destruction permit for a whole swath of roos I am not inclined to go shoot them, if they're going to be used for something sure, but otherwise nah thanks, roo shooting is really one step away from shooting paper targets, a predictable target that takes little skill to hunt down or locate. As I've mentioned before there are several reserves and farms around the place here (tree farms mostly) where the "Locals" go and shoot a lot of roos, many of which end up near the roadway and also on my property and they are left severely injured, this results in a good few hours driving and walking around putting them down myself, sure their numbers are high here, but I still dont see the need for the senseless killing of them all, its not like they're covering the highway or eating all the local crops, in fact they are very benign. I think the headshot inside of 200m with a high powered 20cal or larger is a great rule of thumb when it comes to shooting roos, as opposed to just letting people use their own choice, 22lr just doesn't cut it most the time.

when it comes to "GROUND SHOOTING OF FERAL PIGS (PIG003)" I have no real issue with most of all the information presented in it, I find it mostly in line with what I have experienced and that of what I have seen in footage and from other peoples experiences, most people pig hunting tend to lean towards using larger caliber firearms with decent hitting power so I find their prescribed .243 to be a flexible point to start from seeing as its a pretty darn high energy cartridge and discourages people from using 222, 223, 22-250 to do the job of a bigger gun. I like how it exclusively cites the use of dogs to actually hold down pigs as something they do not condone as I do not condone this either for a few reasons, some personal some ethical.
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Re: Codes of Practice and Standard Operating Procedures

Post by bigrich » 19 Jul 2021, 5:23 pm

ZaineB wrote:Im on the fence as the "GROUND SHOOTING OF CAMELS (CAM001)" cites in a manner that can and would be interpreted (due to mitigating factors of how many people encounter camels). That no camels be left injured, hence why I do not advocate for the lesser powered 30cal rifles in such situations, on sandy country where you can "round up" the camels headshots are all too easy, but average joe plodding along with his 308 would be better off leaving larger animals be if he cant pursue them due to terrain, Personally I load 225gr mono's in my 300 with substantially more oomph than the 308 has at 150 to 168 grains which is average joes 308 bullet. and even this on larger animals can feel a little underpowered, however I personally don't have any issue hitting what I am aiming at. I am not alone in this including the experience and so forth of many station owners I personally know. most have 40+ cal firearms for this purpose, that or 338 or 375 and up in various cartridges.

roos I don't like shooting unless for an express purpose, so even if a farmer has a destruction permit for a whole swath of roos I am not inclined to go shoot them, if they're going to be used for something sure, but otherwise nah thanks, roo shooting is really one step away from shooting paper targets, a predictable target that takes little skill to hunt down or locate. As I've mentioned before there are several reserves and farms around the place here (tree farms mostly) where the "Locals" go and shoot a lot of roos, many of which end up near the roadway and also on my property and they are left severely injured, this results in a good few hours driving and walking around putting them down myself, sure their numbers are high here, but I still dont see the need for the senseless killing of them all, its not like they're covering the highway or eating all the local crops, in fact they are very benign. I think the headshot inside of 200m with a high powered 20cal or larger is a great rule of thumb when it comes to shooting roos, as opposed to just letting people use their own choice, 22lr just doesn't cut it most the time.

when it comes to "GROUND SHOOTING OF FERAL PIGS (PIG003)" I have no real issue with most of all the information presented in it, I find it mostly in line with what I have experienced and that of what I have seen in footage and from other peoples experiences, most people pig hunting tend to lean towards using larger caliber firearms with decent hitting power so I find their prescribed .243 to be a flexible point to start from seeing as its a pretty darn high energy cartridge and discourages people from using 222, 223, 22-250 to do the job of a bigger gun. I like how it exclusively cites the use of dogs to actually hold down pigs as something they do not condone as I do not condone this either for a few reasons, some personal some ethical.


i agree with your views on roo shooting zaine . i've done it once with a mate who knew his stuff . roo culling is a job of nessecity , i don't see it as fun . if i had a patch of land myself , if they weren't causing any issues i'd leave them alone . goats,deer rabbits for the freezer , pigs, cats, foxes, dogs all shot on sight where humane ,cause of the impact on farmers and the enviroment :thumbsup:
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Re: Codes of Practice and Standard Operating Procedures

Post by pomemax » 19 Jul 2021, 5:31 pm

Codes of Practice and/or Standard Operating Procedures
Are you referring to them from a commercial Pest control/ harvester's aspect or a recreational shooters point of view .
I think that most shooters would be aware of the codes I dont know how many would have read any most may have seen extracts from some of them ,but reading the national code of practice on Kangaroo harvesting for human consumption I realy dont think they have easy access to it .
May be the Mods can look into a section on here with the codes displayed or links to them.
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Re: Codes of Practice and Standard Operating Procedures

Post by ZaineB » 19 Jul 2021, 5:32 pm

bigrich wrote:
i agree with your views on roo shooting zaine . i've done it once with a mate who knew his stuff . roo culling is a job of nessecity , i don't see it as fun . if i had a patch of land myself , if they weren't causing any issues i'd leave them alone . goats,deer rabbits for the freezer , pigs, cats, foxes, dogs all shot on sight where humane ,cause of the impact on farmers and the enviroment :thumbsup:



Yeah mate I have noticed a few of your sentiments are facsimiles of my own, I think most of mine comes from my grandad who would never shoot any other roos besides the one he wanted to have in the fridge. I can remember being sat beside him on a fox drive and a mob of roos came barreling through the bush, I raised my little side by side 410 and he prompty picked out a smallish male and said "quick that short one coming from there" as he pointed at it, I lifted up the muzzle and put the shot through its head and we left the rest running by. also managed to get three foxes in the same sitting, was a good day but that ethos stuck with me, my uncle and a few other blokes on the other hand would happily just cut sick on whatever came through, I'm glad my grandad passed on that ethos rather than the latter.
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Re: Codes of Practice and Standard Operating Procedures

Post by animalpest » 19 Jul 2021, 5:38 pm

pomemax - from either point of view. Other than the kangaroo CoP's (there are two), there is no distinction made in the Codes and SoP's between commercial/recreational shooters.
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Re: Codes of Practice and Standard Operating Procedures

Post by Larry » 19 Jul 2021, 5:51 pm

animalpest wrote:pomemax - from either point of view. Other than the kangaroo CoP's (there are two), there is no distinction made in the Codes and SoP's between commercial/recreational shooters.


From my understanding there is no recreational shooting of Kangaroos allowed at all. The only loop hole would be a shooter acting with permission of a person with a Permit to Cull. They must carry a copy of the permit with them at all times while engaged in the activity and also have written consent with them from the permit holder.
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Re: Codes of Practice and Standard Operating Procedures

Post by bigrich » 19 Jul 2021, 5:54 pm

ZaineB wrote:
bigrich wrote:
i agree with your views on roo shooting zaine . i've done it once with a mate who knew his stuff . roo culling is a job of nessecity , i don't see it as fun . if i had a patch of land myself , if they weren't causing any issues i'd leave them alone . goats,deer rabbits for the freezer , pigs, cats, foxes, dogs all shot on sight where humane ,cause of the impact on farmers and the enviroment :thumbsup:



Yeah mate I have noticed a few of your sentiments are facsimiles of my own, I think most of mine comes from my grandad who would never shoot any other roos besides the one he wanted to have in the fridge. I can remember being sat beside him on a fox drive and a mob of roos came barreling through the bush, I raised my little side by side 410 and he prompty picked out a smallish male and said "quick that short one coming from there" as he pointed at it, I lifted up the muzzle and put the shot through its head and we left the rest running by. also managed to get three foxes in the same sitting, was a good day but that ethos stuck with me, my uncle and a few other blokes on the other hand would happily just cut sick on whatever came through, I'm glad my grandad passed on that ethos rather than the latter.


yeah mate , going out bush and blazing away at anything that moves doesn't sit well with my morals and ethics . when it comes to rabbits ,goats and deer , i only take what i can use, unless there's a genuine need to cull them all . i've been out on the mountains behind tenterfeild and not pulled a trigger . it was just magic to see the flocks of rosellas , wedgies up close, and echidnas snuffling around in the scrub . there's a species of wallaby there that's got a really dark fur and their that heavily muscled it's crazy . look like they bin doing steroids and going to the gym :lol: a lot of non hunting people don't get that i can appreciate nature , they seem to think hunting is about sadistic self gratification :roll: . they can't tell the difference between introduced invasive species and natives . it's been a frustrating time to educate some of these people at times :roll:
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Re: Codes of Practice and Standard Operating Procedures

Post by on_one_wheel » 19 Jul 2021, 6:17 pm

Yes I do, specifically for roos, that's how I know the only way to shoot a kangaroo with a .22lr is to aim for the base of the tail to immobilise it well enough to get in close for a head shot :sarcasm:
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Re: Codes of Practice and Standard Operating Procedures

Post by Blr243 » 19 Jul 2021, 7:28 pm

Big rich , the muscle wallabies , are u seeing small wallaroo s ?
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Re: Codes of Practice and Standard Operating Procedures

Post by bigrich » 19 Jul 2021, 8:24 pm

Blr243 wrote:Big rich , the muscle wallabies , are u seeing small wallaroo s ?


yeah, your right blr. i just looked at some images through google . i took a pic of one on my old phone . he was black and stocky as . sorta-kinda like a walleroo "mr T" :lol: . nah serious , from a distance they look like charred tree stumps :D
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Re: Codes of Practice and Standard Operating Procedures

Post by Die Judicii » 19 Jul 2021, 9:04 pm

Larry wrote:Well if you are going to be legal and get a permit to cull indigenous species you will be sent the code and all the conditions. I think the fact you wanted to be legal in the first place would mean you are likely to read it.
.
The real question is how many people actually abide by the code and if they agree with it or not is more shown through their actions.

Personally at 200yrds depending on the need if I was using a 308 then with an appropriate bullet then a chest shot may be acceptable in my book, Not on moving target however still a well placed shot.


Maybe in your book.
I'm only guessing here,,,,, but I think it is HEAD SHOTS only when it comes to roo shooting for the boxes.

Even on our own property I don't shoot them, and instead have a pro roo shooter come in on a regular basis.
And his are always head shot.

Besides,,, for anyone out there popping roos that don't have accreditation and licenses,,, apart from massive fines if caught,,,,,,,,, the
crown can actually make the necessary moves and confiscate your property as a whole.
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Re: Codes of Practice and Standard Operating Procedures

Post by ZaineB » 19 Jul 2021, 9:14 pm

Die Judicii wrote:Besides,,, for anyone out there popping roos that don't have accreditation and licenses,,, apart from massive fines if caught,,,,,,,,, the
crown can actually make the necessary moves and confiscate your property as a whole.


depending on the pastel of your skin however.
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Re: Codes of Practice and Standard Operating Procedures

Post by mchughcb » 20 Jul 2021, 2:43 am

If you aren't a pro and don't read the cop then I would have no idea that my 416 rem to the head at 10 yards on a stationary animal ticks the boxes or not.
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Re: Codes of Practice and Standard Operating Procedures

Post by on_one_wheel » 20 Jul 2021, 10:46 pm

Die Judicii wrote:
Larry wrote:Well if you are going to be legal and get a permit to cull indigenous species you will be sent the code and all the conditions. I think the fact you wanted to be legal in the first place would mean you are likely to read it.
.
The real question is how many people actually abide by the code and if they agree with it or not is more shown through their actions.

Personally at 200yrds depending on the need if I was using a 308 then with an appropriate bullet then a chest shot may be acceptable in my book, Not on moving target however still a well placed shot.


Maybe in your book.
I'm only guessing here,,,,, but I think it is HEAD SHOTS only when it comes to roo shooting for the boxes.

Even on our own property I don't shoot them, and instead have a pro roo shooter come in on a regular basis.
And his are always head shot.

Besides,,, for anyone out there popping roos that don't have accreditation and licenses,,, apart from massive fines if caught,,,,,,,,, the
crown can actually make the necessary moves and confiscate your property as a whole.


Its been a while since I read the code but my understanding is it's head shots only regardless of what your destroying them for, both consumption and pest control. In fact they even specify what part of the brain to aim for.
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Re: Codes of Practice and Standard Operating Procedures

Post by Downunder » 21 Jul 2021, 7:43 am

My 2c/observation on SOP’s, COP’s, Standards, Reg’s, Rules, ACT’s and Legislative Requirements.

They all creep, some controls creep faster than others.

Creeping one direction (Downward) isn’t conducive with the long term sustainability of any pursuit.

I’m not suggesting there shouldn’t be ethical minimum standards but emotive pressure and influences that drive politically motivated and bureaucratic decisions bathed in pandering and hypocrisy only serve to tighten the noose on firearms related culling and harvesting IMO.

I’m old enough to reflect on the changes in my life time to know that if I had another 60 years I‘d have serious doubts as to whether the current practices would be still carried, I’m not even sure about the public ownership of firearms......
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Re: Codes of Practice and Standard Operating Procedures

Post by bigpete » 21 Jul 2021, 9:00 am

Larry wrote:
animalpest wrote:pomemax - from either point of view. Other than the kangaroo CoP's (there are two), there is no distinction made in the Codes and SoP's between commercial/recreational shooters.


From my understanding there is no recreational shooting of Kangaroos allowed at all. The only loop hole would be a shooter acting with permission of a person with a Permit to Cull. They must carry a copy of the permit with them at all times while engaged in the activity and also have written consent with them from the permit holder.


Depends on the state.
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Re: Codes of Practice and Standard Operating Procedures

Post by bigpete » 21 Jul 2021, 9:03 am

on_one_wheel wrote:
Die Judicii wrote:
Larry wrote:Well if you are going to be legal and get a permit to cull indigenous species you will be sent the code and all the conditions. I think the fact you wanted to be legal in the first place would mean you are likely to read it.
.
The real question is how many people actually abide by the code and if they agree with it or not is more shown through their actions.

Personally at 200yrds depending on the need if I was using a 308 then with an appropriate bullet then a chest shot may be acceptable in my book, Not on moving target however still a well placed shot.


Maybe in your book.
I'm only guessing here,,,,, but I think it is HEAD SHOTS only when it comes to roo shooting for the boxes.

Even on our own property I don't shoot them, and instead have a pro roo shooter come in on a regular basis.
And his are always head shot.

Besides,,, for anyone out there popping roos that don't have accreditation and licenses,,, apart from massive fines if caught,,,,,,,,, the
crown can actually make the necessary moves and confiscate your property as a whole.


Its been a while since I read the code but my understanding is it's head shots only regardless of what your destroying them for, both consumption and pest control. In fact they even specify what part of the brain to aim for.


Head shots only unless dispatching a wounded animal
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Re: Codes of Practice and Standard Operating Procedures

Post by RUGGA » 21 Jul 2021, 12:18 pm

Ive read the SOPs and even added one as a permit condition for some jobs i've had. I would hate to see any creep into law. There are so many variables to achieving a safe and humane kill that being prescribed a particular combination could lead to less than optimal results.
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Re: Codes of Practice and Standard Operating Procedures

Post by Downunder » 21 Jul 2021, 1:11 pm

This sort of movement isn't interested in regulation of any form but be just as wary of the fringe influences, the ones that erode confidence, support and endorsement over time using regulation to suffocate an industry.....

https://www.traveller.com.au/eating-national-icons-h1ug79
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Re: Codes of Practice and Standard Operating Procedures

Post by Die Judicii » 21 Jul 2021, 11:36 pm

RUGGA wrote:Ive read the SOPs and even added one as a permit condition for some jobs i've had. I would hate to see any creep into law. There are so many variables to achieving a safe and humane kill that being prescribed a particular combination could lead to less than optimal results.


Dead (pardon the unintentional pun) right.
Take for instance the harvesting/culling of roos,,,,,
Regardless of daylight hours or under spotlight,,, but in particular daylight,,,, one single head shot roo results in the mob dispersing.
This is not conducive to a pro shooter filling his/her tally.
So, in reality the head shot rule equates to "one shot per mob" at best.
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