TNR or are the people in the ACT living in the real world?

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TNR or are the people in the ACT living in the real world?

Post by NTSOG » 21 Jan 2022, 12:19 pm

G'day,

I just stumbled on this article: "ACT the only Australian jurisdiction where cat management program trap, neuter, return is legal". It leads me to wonder if the ACT is actually part of Australia.

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australi ... ar-AASZ332

Perhaps trapping some bureaucrats, other loonies and neutering them would be better?

Jim
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Re: TNR or are the people in the ACT living in the real worl

Post by Oldbloke » 21 Jan 2022, 12:34 pm

What can I say?

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Post by bladeracer » 21 Jan 2022, 12:48 pm

NTSOG wrote:G'day,

I just stumbled on this article: "ACT the only Australian jurisdiction where cat management program trap, neuter, return is legal". It leads me to wonder if the ACT is actually part of Australia.

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australi ... ar-AASZ332

Perhaps trapping some bureaucrats, other loonies and neutering them would be better?

Jim


RSPCA is pushing for similar here in Vic as well.
They want to ban shooting feral cats entirely, we would only be allowed to live trap and deliver to a vet to deal with them.
Probably driven by all the d**khead "law-abiding" shooters that tell everybody to trap them and drown them in the old wheelie bin or dam...
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Post by NTSOG » 21 Jan 2022, 1:14 pm

bladeracer: "They want to ban shooting feral cats entirely, we would only be allowed to live trap and deliver to a vet to deal with them."

Oh well the 'shoot, shovel, shut-up' principle will apply. I'll be blowed if I'm going to get a trap and take a roaming moggy to a vet. Once I did take a feral kitten I caught to the local animal shelter. It was actually quite tame. A few days later I caught several more of the litter in my hay shed - I handled them wearing my welding gloves so vicious were they - and also took them to the local shelter. I was told the first one had been put down already though it seemed a nice kitten. When I caught the last three I simply whacked them on the head. it seemed pointless to waste my time carting them into town when I could do the job myself. My neighbour shot the mother.

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Re: TNR or are the people in the ACT living in the real worl

Post by geoff » 21 Jan 2022, 1:59 pm

I've never had anyone who supports trap/neuter/realease take me up on the offer of coming out to handle trapped cats for such a purpose.

I've trapped plenty of cats and will continue to do so - I always invite them to come out and be the ones to get the cat out of the trap and take it into town. No takers. Can't imagine why.
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Re: TNR or are the people in the ACT living in the real worl

Post by Bugman » 21 Jan 2022, 2:52 pm

The loony fringe is definitely on the march. DOH!
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Re: TNR or are the people in the ACT living in the real worl

Post by Blr243 » 21 Jan 2022, 3:22 pm

Making cat shooting illegal is just nuts. There should be a law saying we must shoot them on sight. Bring In The new law ASAP ...I’m keen to do as I’m told
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Re: TNR or are the people in the ACT living in the real worl

Post by Oldbloke » 21 Jan 2022, 6:04 pm

Blr243 wrote:Making cat shooting illegal is just nuts. There should be a law saying we must shoot them on sight. Bring In The new law ASAP ...I’m keen to do as I’m told


Get with it mate. Its illegal to shoot feral cats in Vic now. Always has been.
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Post by NTSOG » 21 Jan 2022, 7:09 pm

Oldbloke: "Its illegal to shoot feral cats in Vic now. Always has been."

I thought that only applied to state forests in which only agents of the government were able to cull them?

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Post by bladeracer » 21 Jan 2022, 7:14 pm

Oldbloke wrote:
Blr243 wrote:Making cat shooting illegal is just nuts. There should be a law saying we must shoot them on sight. Bring In The new law ASAP ...I’m keen to do as I’m told


Get with it mate. Its illegal to shoot feral cats in Vic now. Always has been.


That's news to me.
RSPCA will tell you this but when I asked them for the legislation there seems to be none.
Unless their is a law specifically prohibiting shooting cats then it is legal.
There are restrictions on shooting domestic pets, unless they are causing immediate danger to your stock.
But feral cats are not considered domestic pets if they're out roaming the country.

I'm with BLR, they should all be shot out in the bush.
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Post by NTSOG » 21 Jan 2022, 7:52 pm

bladeracer: "There are restrictions on shooting domestic pets, unless they are causing immediate danger to your stock."

In fact the Domestic Animals Act [1994] does not even require a dog or cat to be "causing immediate danger" to stock in the sense of actively chasing or attacking the stock:

Part 3

Division 2

30. Owner of livestock able to destroy dog or cat found
at large near livestock

(1) The owner of any animals or birds kept for
farming purposes, any person authorised by the
owner or an authorised officer may destroy any
dog or cat found at large—
(a) in the place where the animals or birds are
confined
; or
(b) if the animals or birds are tethered, in the
vicinity of the animals or birds.

(2) The owner, a person authorised by the owner or
authorised officer does not incur any civil or
criminal liability for acting under sub-section (1).



I had always thought I had to catch a dog or cat in the act of chasing or attacking my stock before I could legally shoot it. It is clear that it is enough that a wandering dog/cat be in the same paddock/enclosure/cage and even just near farmed animals and birds. This latter section makes sense as a predator's presence near [farmed] live stock/birds will stress the animals thus causing psychological harm.

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Last edited by NTSOG on 21 Jan 2022, 8:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by boingk » 21 Jan 2022, 8:09 pm

Shoot it. Shoot it dead. Or take by the hind legs and blow its head into the nearest tree, post etc.

I don't care, just kill them all. I doubt the cops will come looking. Someone shot a cat? Sure. You see it? No? Righto then, call the RSPCA.

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Re: TNR or are the people in the ACT living in the real worl

Post by Oldbloke » 21 Jan 2022, 10:15 pm

NTSOG wrote:Oldbloke: "Its illegal to shoot feral cats in Vic now. Always has been."

I thought that only applied to state forests in which only agents of the government were able to cull them?

Jim


That is correct. I should have been clearer.
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Post by Oldbloke » 21 Jan 2022, 10:37 pm

Half way down the page.

https://www.environment.vic.gov.au/inva ... feral-cats


"Feral cats have not been declared an established pest on private land, meaning farmers and other private landholders will not be required to control feral cats. Permission to hunt on Crown land does not extend to feral cats, unless conducted by accredited volunteer shooters engaged to participate in control programs managed by Parks Victoria or DELWP."


Weird, but true.
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Post by deye243 » 21 Jan 2022, 11:22 pm

Oldbloke wrote:
Blr243 wrote:Making cat shooting illegal is just nuts. There should be a law sa7ying we must shoot them on sight. Bring In The new law ASAP ...I’m keen to do as I’m told


Get with it mate. Its illegal to shoot feral cats in Vic now. Always has been.

I would like to say bulshit but have you got any reference to this .
I will stand corrected if you are right no offence
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Re: TNR or are the people in the ACT living in the real worl

Post by Oldbloke » 22 Jan 2022, 5:13 am

Oldbloke wrote:Half way down the page.

https://www.environment.vic.gov.au/inva ... feral-cats


"Feral cats have not been declared an established pest on private land, meaning farmers and other private landholders will not be required to control feral cats. Permission to hunt on Crown land does not extend to feral cats, unless conducted by accredited volunteer shooters engaged to participate in control programs managed by Parks Victoria or DELWP."


Weird, but true.
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Post by bladeracer » 22 Jan 2022, 3:29 pm

Oldbloke wrote:
Oldbloke wrote:Half way down the page.

https://www.environment.vic.gov.au/inva ... feral-cats


"Feral cats have not been declared an established pest on private land, meaning farmers and other private landholders will not be required to control feral cats. Permission to hunt on Crown land does not extend to feral cats, unless conducted by accredited volunteer shooters engaged to participate in control programs managed by Parks Victoria or DELWP."


Weird, but true.


As I said earlier, unless it is specifically prohibited by law, then it is legal to shoot them, on private property. Landowners are not required to control cats as they are not declared pests, but we are allowed to control them as they are not protected either. Crown land hunting permission, as far as I'm aware is only for declared pest animals, and game animals, and cats are neither of these.
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Post by Oldbloke » 22 Jan 2022, 3:45 pm

Ummm, that's what my post says. You quoted it.

They are declared pests. Read the link.

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Post by bladeracer » 23 Jan 2022, 3:02 pm

Oldbloke wrote:Ummm, that's what my post says. You quoted it.

They are declared pests. Read the link.

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Declared pests on some crown land, but you can't shoot them (under the permission of any pest hunting permit).
Not declared pests on private property but you can shoot them.

Just to muddy the waters :-)
This is the National Code of Practice for dealing with feral cats, and it comes with some nice printable targets.
https://pestsmart.org.au/toolkit-resource/code-of-practice-feral-cats/

Some extracts:
"Shooting is one of the main methods of control currently used but it is labour intensive and not considered an effective broad-scale control method. It may be of use in reducing the local number of feral cats or targeting problem animals. Shooting is usually done at night from a vehicle with the aid of a spotlight, but can also be conducted during the day. Drives or ‘battues’, using a line of beaters often with trained dogs, are sometimes used to flush feral cats out from vegetation. Shooting can be a humane method of destroying feral cats when it is carried out by experienced, skilled and responsible shooters; the animal can be clearly seen and is within range; and, the correct firearm, ammunition and shot placement is used."

"Only head (brain) or chest (heart-lung) shots must be used. Shots to the head are preferred over chest shots as they are more likely to cause instantaneous loss of consciousness. Chest shots do not render the animals instantaneously insensible and are likely to result in a higher incidence of wounding. Shooting at other parts of the body is unacceptable."

"To minimise the animal welfare implications of leaving dependant kittens to die a slow death from starvation, it is preferable not to undertake shooting when females are lactating eg September to March in non-urban habitats. There is a high probability that any female cat over six months old that is caught during this time will be pregnant or lactating."

"Care must be taken when handling feral cat carcasses as they may carry diseases such as toxoplasmosis, ringworm and sarcosporidiosis that can affect humans and other animals. Routinely wash hands after handling all carcasses."

"Small bore, high velocity, centre fire rifles fitted with a telescopic sight are preferred eg .22-250, .22 Hornet, .222 Remington, .223 or .243 Winchester. Hollow-point or soft-nosed ammunition should always be used. Rimfire weapons with lower muzzle energy are not recommended because of the greater risk of non-lethal wounding. 12-gauge shotguns with heavy shot sizes of No. 2, SSG, BB or AAA may be effective, but only up to a distance of 20 m from the target animal."

"When illuminated by the spotlight, cats have a distinctive brilliant green eye reflection (‘eye shine’)."

"If dogs are used to flush feral cats out from vegetation and/or up into trees, they must be adequately controlled to prevent them from attacking cats. Dogs should only be trained to drive cats from cover, not to capture or attack them. For further information on the use of dogs refer to GEN002 The care and management of dogs used for pest animal control."

"The shooter must aim either at the head, to destroy the major centres at the back of the brain near the spinal cord or, at the chest, to destroy the heart, lungs and great blood vessels. This can be achieved by one of the following methods (see Diagrams):"

"Head Shot (this is the preferred point of aim) Frontal position (front view). The firearm is aimed at the centre of the head slightly below a line drawn midway between the ears."
FeralCat1.jpg
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"Temporal position (side view). Aim horizontally from the side of the head at a point midway between the eye and the base of the ear."
FeralCat3.jpg
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FeralCat2.jpg
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"Chest Shot Side view. The firearm is aimed horizontally at the centre of a line encircling the minimum girth of the animal, immediately behind the forelegs. The shot should be taken slightly to the rear of the shoulder blade (scapula). This angle is taken because the scapula provides partial protection of the heart from a direct side-on shot."

"The target animal should be checked to ensure it is dead before moving on to the next animal. When targeting multiple cats in a group (eg mother and sub-adult offspring), a number of animals will need to be shot in rapid succession. In this case, the animals in the group should be checked to ensure they are dead before moving on to the next group. Death of shot animals should always be confirmed by observing the following:
-absence of rhythmic, respiratory movements
-absence of eye protection reflex (corneal reflex) or ‘blink
-a fixed, glazed expression in the eyes
-loss of colour in mucous membranes (become mottled and pale without refill after pressure is applied).
If death cannot be verified, a second shot to the head should be taken immediately."
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Re: TNR or are the people in the ACT living in the real worl

Post by Oldbloke » 23 Jan 2022, 6:03 pm

Bladeracer, I'm not sure what your point is.

On public land you cannot shoot them.

On private property you can if you wish. But no obligation, like foxes or rabbits.

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Stupid, but not complicated.
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Re: TNR or are the people in the ACT living in the real worl

Post by bladeracer » 23 Jan 2022, 6:54 pm

Oldbloke wrote:Bladeracer, I'm not sure what your point is.

On public land you cannot shoot them.

On private property you can if you wish. But no obligation, like foxes or rabbits.

It Isn't complicated.
Stupid, but not complicated.


I wasn't making a point, merely supporting yours.

On public land you may be allowed to shoot them, but not under the pest animal hunting permission granted to all of us on public land open to hunting, it would be under something else, accredited volunteers on an authorised cull with a club, for example.

This part from your link (https://www.environment.vic.gov.au/inva ... feral-cats) stops it being a blanket statement on all public lands, as it is applied to specified areas of public land only.

"On 26 July 2018, the feral or wild population of the cat (Felis catus) (feral cat) was declared an established pest animal on specified Crown land in Victoria under the Catchment and Land Protection Act 1994.

The declaration applies to areas of Crown land managed by the Department of Environment, Land, Water and Planning (DELWP), Parks Victoria, Phillip Island Nature Park and the four Alpine Resort Management Boards. It is important that the feral cat declaration only applies to areas of Crown Land where feral cat management is of high priority for the protection of biodiversity and minimises the risk to free-roaming domestic cats."
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Re: TNR or are the people in the ACT living in the real worl

Post by Elmer » 03 Feb 2022, 3:42 pm

Tiddles walks in front of rifle...No, I will not shoot you because the RSPCA said it's bad...BANG!, damn that set trigger hee hee.
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Re: TNR or are the people in the ACT living in the real worl

Post by No1_49er » 03 Feb 2022, 9:52 pm

Bang.
Red mist.
Flop.

What sort of a f^k-wit would dream up a scheme to Trap / Neuter / Release an animal that will simply go on its merry way to continue its trail of destruction?
A good cat is a dead cat. They no longer feast on native fauna.

End of story
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Re: TNR or are the people in the ACT living in the real worl

Post by NTSOG » 05 Feb 2022, 5:51 am

G'day,

I found this article this morning on the situation in Tasmania with feral cats:

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australi ... ar-AATspOz

It appears that f-cats have taken over Tasmania more or less and researchers believe there is no solution save creating sanctuaries for threatened native species.

An ecologist states in the article: "Feral cats are estimated to kill more than three billion animals in Australia each year." On that basis all cats seen wandering should be considered fair game, both feral and domestic.

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Re: TNR or are the people in the ACT living in the real worl

Post by Oldbloke » 05 Feb 2022, 6:58 am

Got me buggered why cats don't need to be registered and micro chipped like dogs.

Should be open slather on cats, dogs and foxes anywhere, including NPs.
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Re: TNR or are the people in the ACT living in the real worl

Post by Bruiser64 » 09 Feb 2022, 10:39 pm

No1_49er wrote:Bang.
Red mist.
Flop.

What sort of a f^k-wit would dream up a scheme to Trap / Neuter / Release an animal that will simply go on its merry way to continue its trail of destruction?
A good cat is a dead cat. They no longer feast on native fauna.

End of story


Excellent question. I had the misfortune to grow up in Canberra. I left when I was 21. On a trip back to Canberra to visit family a few Christmas’s ago, I had an experience that answers your question. I went to the Woden Mall and was surprised to see a line of over 30 people all with dogs inside the mall. That I thought was a bit weird. I then saw they were all lined up to get their pets photo taken with Santa Claus. I kid you not. All the sad acts in that queue were the types of people who dream up the scheme you describe. I looked at them and said to my wife “That’s the reason I fekn hate this town”.
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Re: TNR or are the people in the ACT living in the real worl

Post by bigpete » 10 Feb 2022, 8:39 am

Oldbloke wrote:Got me buggered why cats don't need to be registered and micro chipped like dogs.

Should be open slather on cats, dogs and foxes anywhere, including NPs.


And kept in cat pens.
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Re: TNR or are the people in the ACT living in the real worl

Post by NTSOG » 18 Feb 2022, 5:45 am

G'day,

Here's some more feline insanity from the fashionable and trendy set reported in England - 'part-wild hybrid cats':

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/world/uk ... ar-AATZtfu

Could you imagine the damage these little beasts would do if they got loose in the bush? I presume [and hope] the import into Australia for domestic 'consumption' of such predators would be banned.

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