NTSOG wrote:G'day,
I've been hunting a lot lately with my Weihrauch 66P [.22 Magnum] using 30gr. V-Max ammunition. Aside from hares on neighbouring farms I've shot 6 foxes in the last three weeks at ranges out to 105 yards on my place - there are a lot about. To my surprise 4 of those appear to have been hit in the spine in/around the upper chest/shoulder blade area. They dropped like a rock. Two were quadriplaegic, i.e. totally paralysed, and two were paralysed in the rear legs only. One bled out last night in a few seconds probably due to a major blood vessel being ruptured also, but the other three required an extra shot in the noggin to finish them. They were alive, breathing and alert when I approached them. All four foxes were standing at different angles in relation to me as I aimed. Only last night's was exactly side-on at about 100 yards and he stepped forward as I fired. I wonder if I had used my centrefire [.222 Rem] if I would have noticed the paralysis. In short would the harder hitting rifle have knocked them over and killed them outright given the same POI, not just paralysed them?
Jim
NTSOG wrote:G'day Oldbloke,
Normally I shoot out the back of my place with the .222 Rem, but my wife has moved her horses to a paddock next to where I shoot, hence I'm using the .22 magnum for the moment because it's a bit quieter and none of the horses react to the smaller rifle. The six foxes I've shot over the last three weeks have been at ranges from 50 to 105 yards. I have read stories by others who aimed for head shots and just managed to blow an animal's jaw off which is another reason for my reluctance to try such shots. In most cases I'm shooting from sitting with a solid tripod rest, e.g. the Caldwell Deadshot shooting rest, though last night I shot from standing off quad sticks at about 80 yards as the blighter was already at my bait station before I could get to my normal seat without being spotted. [I always carry the quad sticks just in case I run into a fox while walking around at night.]
Jim
Oldbloke wrote:Ok, I'm no expert but this is my take on it.
I took up daytime whistling foxes about 9 or 10 years ago. I like the challenge. I'm into hunting, not score boards. So I even pass up the odd shot to ensure good animal welfare.
At first I used my 22 lr and after loosing a couple (chest shot) realised it just was not enough gun.
I considered the 22 mag but soon dismissed it and bought a 223. Never looked back. Only one wounded since.
I never head shoot. He only has to turn his head or you miss judge range or tragectory and you miss or wound. This happened to a cat I shot many, many years ago. Hit the jaw. Finished it off about 3 days later. Not happy Jan.
I always keep in mind, in the field I don't shoot as well as on the bench. IMO this applies to most. We over estimate our ability, and often push the boundaries regarding range. Easy to miss judge range too.
So, if you decided to only chest shot what is the effective range? Remember you need a bit up your sleeve for shots like you have mentioned.
IMO for foxes.
22lr about 60 yards
22 mag about 80-90 yards
223/222 about 250 yards easy, not that I would ever attempt such a shot. About 170 is my limit in the field.
Yes, they are conservative but IMO you need to be.
Why would you use a 22 mag, sure cheap ammo. But if you reload so is the 222 or 223. You could use both and keep the 22mag for small blocks or reload low velocity loads for small bocks as I do.
I'm not knocking the 22 mag. It has its place, and plenty of fans, but its limitations also. (like all chamberings)
Lazarus wrote:I know you weren't having a go OB, but for the record, I let far more go than those I shoot.
I want the critters I take to not even know they're gone.
Even if there's a slight doubt, there's always next time.
I'm well and truly old enough to know my capabilities don't come close to my ambitions
NTSOG wrote:animalpest: "If you hit the foxes in the guts rather than the spine, it could have been a problem regardless of whether it was a .22 magnum or a .223."
I'm interested to hear from Oldbloke why he doesn't like to shoot foxes from front-on through the chest. He's commented to that effect a couple of times in different posts. The vixen I mentioned that ran 250 yards was hit mid-upper chest from directly in front. I was shooting down at her - I was sitting about 6 feet higher on the wall of a dam. In theory I would have expected the bullet to hit either lungs, heart or both [and cause her to immediately drop dead] before entering the hindgut and opening up the abdomen - or is it that bullets do strange things upon impact that can never be predicted?
Jim
NTSOG wrote:I'm interested to hear from Oldbloke why he doesn't like to shoot foxes from front-on through the chest. He's commented to that effect a couple of times in different posts. The vixen I mentioned that ran 250 yards was hit mid-upper chest from directly in front. I was shooting down at her - I was sitting about 6 feet higher on the wall of a dam. In theory I would have expected the bullet to hit either lungs, heart or both [and cause her to immediately drop dead] before entering the hindgut and opening up the abdomen - or is it that bullets do strange things upon impact that can never be predicted?
Jim
NTSOG wrote:I beg your pardon Oldbloke. Maybe it was Blade racer who made the comment which stuck in my mind.
Jim
NTSOG wrote:I beg your pardon Oldbloke. Maybe it was Blade racer who made the comment which stuck in my mind.
Jim
Die Judicii wrote:Mate,,, I dunno about foxes, but this dog was shot approx 2am (by memory) and for all intents and purposes appeared to be dead, as it never moved after the initial collapse.
Shot with a 22/250 ballistic tip,,,,,,, it took out the entire spine plus (big enough for my fist to get lost in the hole.
At sun up when I went to retrieve it,, it lifted its head and snarled at me.
Shot again at 20 meters through the chest,,,, seemed to have done the job.
I nudged it with the boot and it was "lifeless"
I rolled it over to see what sex it was, and then walked back to get my ute.
As I pulled up alongside,, it again lifted its head and snarled at the ute wheel.
Shot a 3rd time,,,,,, through the back of the head finally took all signs of life from it.
The pic doesn't show all detail,, but if you PM me a phone # Ill send you the pic on my phone that really shows the extent of the wound.
My Doctor (an avid shooter) has seen the phone pic and was at a loss to explain how something could still survive with the first shot for 5 hours.
MtnMan wrote:
On account that it refused to die and got all snarly, I'm guessing it was female when you checked what sex it was?