Die Judicii wrote:A month ago I was called out to a property to shoot feral dogs that were apparently attacking calves.
I went out and met up with the owners wife who showed me around where the attacks had taken place.
I said to her that yes,,, I could help her out,,, but I would have to charge for travelling due to the cost of fuel these days, but I could not guarantee success/kills in just one night.
We discussed an hourly rate for the time spent,, or,,, a maximum amount for twelve hours spent hunting overnight.
I also gave her print outs of such which additionally included the fact that I'm no longer registered for gst and I would provide ATO paperwork to cover No GST being charged.
To the above,, she readily agreed to all, and also filled out and signed them where required, along with "permission to shoot feral dogs on her property" forms.
Die Judicii wrote:I spent an entire night there (5-30pm till 6-30am) and with no dogs sighted, and no attacks on livestock.
As I was leaving she expressed dismay at not having any feral dogs being shot, and asked for an account.
Once home, I printed off an account for the previously agreed period of twelve hours at the also previously agreed rate, regardless of the fact that I had actually spent 13 hours in service.
After emailing it to her,,,,,,, I got a nasty text message saying That I'd "cheated" her of an hours hunting, and also berated me for not supplying an ABN/GST
Die Judicii wrote:As the entire account barely covered my actual costs (the larger percentage of which was travelling)
Die Judicii wrote: I suggested she look around and see if she could find anyone that had the same equipment that would do the same job for the same amount or less.
I can only deduce that her husband made her see reason,,,,,, because the account was paid the next day.
Amityville wrote:Die Judicii wrote:A month ago I was called out to a property to shoot feral dogs that were apparently attacking calves.
I went out and met up with the owners wife who showed me around where the attacks had taken place.
I said to her that yes,,, I could help her out,,, but I would have to charge for travelling due to the cost of fuel these days, but I could not guarantee success/kills in just one night.
We discussed an hourly rate for the time spent,, or,,, a maximum amount for twelve hours spent hunting overnight.
I also gave her print outs of such which additionally included the fact that I'm no longer registered for gst and I would provide ATO paperwork to cover No GST being charged.
To the above,, she readily agreed to all, and also filled out and signed them where required, along with "permission to shoot feral dogs on her property" forms.
You formed an agreement with a client to provide a service at the owners property for a fee.Die Judicii wrote:I spent an entire night there (5-30pm till 6-30am) and with no dogs sighted, and no attacks on livestock.
As I was leaving she expressed dismay at not having any feral dogs being shot, and asked for an account.
Once home, I printed off an account for the previously agreed period of twelve hours at the also previously agreed rate, regardless of the fact that I had actually spent 13 hours in service.
After emailing it to her,,,,,,, I got a nasty text message saying That I'd "cheated" her of an hours hunting, and also berated me for not supplying an ABN/GST
She would be right to ask you for an ABN or alternatively withhold 47% of the invoice as stated by the ATO due to lack of ABN. This is to discourage the likes of some that cheat the rest of us by not paying TAX
You are required by law to have an ABN and provide it on invoices when conducting business, either as a sole trader or company.Die Judicii wrote:As the entire account barely covered my actual costs (the larger percentage of which was travelling)
Did you document this, previous you had said 12 hours hunting, not travelling to and from site from xyz multiple times?
Either your labour rate must be below minimum wage (put it up) or your running costs include financing a new 300 series Landcruiser + SAKO's and 50k thermal gear to barely cover costs for 12 hours onsite shooting!Die Judicii wrote: I suggested she look around and see if she could find anyone that had the same equipment that would do the same job for the same amount or less.
I can only deduce that her husband made her see reason,,,,,, because the account was paid the next day.
Alternatively
They may have come to the decision to pay you and be done with having you on the property consider it a lesson learnt and move on. In future to engage someone who conducts business, upfront without hidden costs and in a legal way in future.
Cowboy type of behaviour like this gives shooters a bad name. Are you even insured to conduct business without an ABN?
Lazarus wrote:He clearly states that he made all conditions, charges etc clear upfront, he told the person he was not a registered business and therefore had no ABN and, let's be clear, NO NEED FOR ONE as it was a transactional contract between two private individuals.
Let's also not forget, the other person agreed to those conditions.
Amityville wrote:Lazarus wrote:He clearly states that he made all conditions, charges etc clear upfront, he told the person he was not a registered business and therefore had no ABN and, let's be clear, NO NEED FOR ONE as it was a transactional contract between two private individuals.
Let's also not forget, the other person agreed to those conditions.
Sorry disciple - My error I guess
In Australia doing the above implies conducting business, must be in another country where these laws don't apply
Regardless, from experience on both sides of the fence, contracting and as a client, if costs are clearly defined in writing prior to engagement, these types of frustrating events for both people don't occur
Labour on site @ $xxxx / hour ex gst
Travel to site @ $xxxx / hour ex gst
Materials @ cost $ + xx% ex gst
Equipment @ $xxxx / hour / day ex gst
Does look likely the client may have misread the invoice as 11 hours which is easily done when doing night works, most people assume 6-5 is 11 hours..
Amityville wrote:
Did you document this, previous you had said 12 hours hunting, not travelling to and from site from xyz multiple times?
Either your labour rate must be below minimum wage (put it up) or your running costs include financing a new 300 series Landcruiser + SAKO's and 50k thermal gear to barely cover costs for 12 hours onsite shooting!Die Judicii wrote: I suggested she look around and see if she could find anyone that had the same equipment that would do the same job for the same amount or less.
I can only deduce that her husband made her see reason,,,,,, because the account was paid the next day.
Alternatively
They may have come to the decision to pay you and be done with having you on the property consider it a lesson learnt and move on. In future to engage someone who conducts business, upfront without hidden costs and in a legal way in future.
Cowboy type of behaviour like this gives shooters a bad name. Are you even insured to conduct business without an ABN?
brinny wrote:Buggered if i know mate.....you stated to her clearly in your post that you couldnt guarantee success/kills in the first night.....yet she was prepared to take you on and have you sit out all night, regardless if its 12 or 13 hours and dont see anything.....cant snap the fingers and make them appear....and as far as the GST component goes.....this isnt 6 figures we are talking about FFS.....most likely a few hundred dollars.....and most people in their position would be happy to cough that up in cash for your services to help them out......as well as put some fuel in your vehicle.....Geezus....talk about making a mountain out of a molehill......Move on from her mate......let them deal with the dogs themselves......
Die Judicii wrote:brinny wrote:Buggered if i know mate.....you stated to her clearly in your post that you couldnt guarantee success/kills in the first night.....yet she was prepared to take you on and have you sit out all night, regardless if its 12 or 13 hours and dont see anything.....cant snap the fingers and make them appear....and as far as the GST component goes.....this isnt 6 figures we are talking about FFS.....most likely a few hundred dollars.....and most people in their position would be happy to cough that up in cash for your services to help them out......as well as put some fuel in your vehicle.....Geezus....talk about making a mountain out of a molehill......Move on from her mate......let them deal with the dogs themselves......
Agreed Mate.
These type usually don't seem to have the sense to stop and think how many $$$ they will lose in one night from a dog or dogs.
Cost per head of stock,, multiplied by how many the dog/s kill, very quickly becomes much greater than a couple of nights put in by a shooter.
Elmer wrote:That really sucks mate, does she think the dogs just wave at you and say "Shoot me first"
They tend to forget that WE are doing THEM a favour.
Elmer wrote:That really sucks mate, does she think the dogs just wave at you and say "Shoot me first"
They rend to forget that WE are doing THEM a favour.
Anyways, I hope you at least had a good Xmas and new year.
animalpest wrote:Elmer wrote:That really sucks mate, does she think the dogs just wave at you and say "Shoot me first"
They rend to forget that WE are doing THEM a favour.
Anyways, I hope you at least had a good Xmas and new year.
Your really only doing them a favour if the work is pretty well for free. Otherwise, if you are being paid, then the "favour" works both ways.
brinny wrote: Its actually interesting you say that....as i have been involved in earthworks for over 40 years.....and one of the jobs i had when i was a young bloke working for a boss was to operate a 623B self elevating scraper on the western Ring Rd in Melbourne.....subbying to Theiss.....Back then they put rocker clocks in the machines that, when the machines were moving, it indicated it on a graph inside the clocks, but if the machine was stationary, it wouldnt mark the graph....and you only got paid on what was marked on the graph.....One of the jobs i was doing was picking up windrows of trimmings for graders....and had to do a lot of sitting around waiting for the graders to call me up and pick their windrows up.....of course while sitting there....the clock wasnt marking the graph....so the machine wasnt getting paid for....so i reefed the clock loose....and sat there for hours sometimes wobbling this damn clock so it marked the graph so the bloke i was working for got paid for the machine ......thank christ those things are a thing of the past.....