.22 or .223 + for my first rifle (for rabbit/fox hunting)?

Varminting and vertebrate pest control. Small game, hunting feral goats, foxes, dogs, cats, rabbits etc.

.22 or .223 + for my first rifle (for rabbit/fox hunting)?

Post by Tomek » 28 Jul 2016, 9:18 pm

I will soon get my license and I'm fortunate to have two farmers, one with an incredibly large property, that I could hunt rabbits and foxes on. My girlfriend will join me.

Up until now, I have been set on a .22 CZ rifle as it is not too powerful, relatively quiet and often said to be a good first rifle. However, after seeing some videos, it seems like many people go hunting rabbits on farms with a .223 from around 150m. I was also told that if I wanted to get fur/meat from the animals, a larger calibre would do too much damage but many photos/videos I've seen don't suggest that. Finally, I want to try hunting in forests too.

In terms of ammo cost, cheap ammo is much cheaper for the .22 but if I get something better like Elley Match then I'd be paying justs as much if not more as .223 ammo.

My questions are:

• Is it too hard to get within 50-100 meters of rabbits/foxes for a .22 shot or are people just using .223 because they like it?
• Is a .223 too powerful for what I want to do? Or as a first rifle?
• Do I really just need to get both?

Thanks
Last edited by Tomek on 28 Jul 2016, 9:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: .22 or .223 + for my first rifle (for rabbit/fox hunting

Post by AusTac » 28 Jul 2016, 9:24 pm

I've never shot rabbits with a rifle so i can't comment there, i've used a bow in the past, dumb rabbits go first, but it really depends on if the're " hunted " or not, hunted burrows? ( insert plural for group of rabbits ) will be super skittish and duck into the burrow at the slightest hint of danger, the more you work them the craftier they become, i would imagine .223 close range would do alot of damage, but over 100m or so would be ok

Get both :D
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Re: .22 or .223 + for my first rifle (for rabbit/fox hunting

Post by Tomek » 28 Jul 2016, 9:28 pm

@bentaz @AusTac
Haha I'm trying to keep the cost down as I'm not sure how much I'll get into this. One rifle would be ideal, at least to start off with.
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Re: .22 or .223 + for my first rifle (for rabbit/fox hunting

Post by pete1 » 28 Jul 2016, 9:31 pm

I wouldn't put the .223 as too powerful, but will kill foxes and rabbits easy.
I presume your talking about .22LR.
Fox whistle I find helps getting close to foxes, but it depends on the fox as some they're curious and will get closer others I presume they've being shot at before as they will stay along way away.
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Re: .22 or .223 + for my first rifle (for rabbit/fox hunting

Post by Gwion » 28 Jul 2016, 9:50 pm

Get the 22lr and start on bunnies. Once you can reliably knock the bunnies off with head shots out to 50+m, try calling a fox in to range.

Practice, practice, practice. Then get a 223rem and stretch the range on the bunnies and start getting serious about the foxes. Defo start with 22lr to get the basics of technique, both for shooting and hunting. You'll learn more about 'the hunt' by having to get closer.

Just my 2 bob's worth.
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Re: .22 or .223 + for my first rifle (for rabbit/fox hunting

Post by Oldbloke » 28 Jul 2016, 9:56 pm

Gwion wrote:Get the 22lr and start on bunnies. Once you can reliably knock the bunnies off with head shots out to 50+m, try calling a fox in to range.

Practice, practice, practice. Then get a 223rem and stretch the range on the bunnies and start getting serious about the foxes. Defo start with 22lr to get the basics of technique, both for shooting and hunting. You'll learn more about 'the hunt' by having to get closer.

Just my 2 bob's worth.



+1 22LR, then 12g then 223 then 30 cal ........then........then........

22LR is the cheapest to run.
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Re: .22 or .223 + for my first rifle (for rabbit/fox hunting

Post by AusTac » 28 Jul 2016, 10:16 pm

Not bad to get a beater rifle for your first i reckon, learn to shoot, clean,maintain what you like/dislike and stuff

You could always get a .22 and just step up when/if you need to, but i wouldn't go over estimating .22 like some do
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Re: .22 or .223 + for my first rifle (for rabbit/fox hunting

Post by NukeBOMB88 » 28 Jul 2016, 10:21 pm

Yeah id go with a .22lr to start. Puma hunter make a decent copy of a Cz that sells for about $300 . They're a bit rough but they get the job done and being very very cheap you don't need to worry about knocking it about. Mine shoots less than one inch groups at 50m which is pretty good for a cheaply.

If you decide to go the .223 road you will not be dissatisfied. It's a damn fine calibre for just about all animals short of a deer. I'd recommend a Howa 1500 . I've got 2 and they shoot very well , are nice to use and are tough as nails too.
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Re: .22 or .223 + for my first rifle (for rabbit/fox hunting

Post by Tomek » 28 Jul 2016, 11:07 pm

Thanks guys. I think I'll go with the .22. The idea of getting more in tune with ""hunting" is a good idea. Also, having to compensate more for drop sounds more challenging than a higher calibre being on point so much easier.

I'll probably go for a CZ as it will be a quality rifle that should last me the rest of my life (I'm 32). The Savage Mark2 is also good but the CZ finish looks higher quality. Will see if it's easy or worthwhile to replace the trigger with a accutrigger like the Savage rifles.
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Re: .22 or .223 + for my first rifle (for rabbit/fox hunting

Post by bigfellascott » 29 Jul 2016, 6:53 am

I'd go both myself if in your position but a 22 is a great way to learn how to shoot consistently but ain't my first choice for shooting foxes with (too limited power/range wise).
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Re: .22 or .223 + for my first rifle (for rabbit/fox hunting

Post by sakoBC » 29 Jul 2016, 8:07 am

One of the reasons that this forum thrives is because there is no “do it all” calibre.
.22 LR
- Very little recoil which is great if you are just getting into shooting
- Cheap ammo for hunting, plinking (shooting cans is fun) and target shooting
- You can do a lot of quick shooting in a session without affecting accuracy
- Relatively low noise
- Good for small game if you definitely want the meat/fur.
- Depending on skills, scope and rifle accuracy it will consistently terminate rabbits out to 50m. Yes, you can go longer, but skill, bullet drop, wind and luck start to creep into the equation.
- Can you hunt foxes with it? Yes, but it is not ideal. A gusting breeze, new shooter and a running fox are not a good combination. Also, hunting is not just about accuracy, but also having a calibre with enough down range energy for a humane kill. No good for spotlighting foxes as they will usually be 50m+ to start with and possibly on the move when they hear the approaching vehicle. Whistling game can be fun (and frustrating).

A 22lr is rarely a mistake, especially for a beginner. You may find yourself wanting to upgrade to a centrefire in the not too distant future when that fox sits just a little too far away and smiles at you.

Enjoy
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Re: .22 or .223 + for my first rifle (for rabbit/fox hunting

Post by happyhunter » 29 Jul 2016, 8:29 am

My questions are:

• Is it too hard to get within 50-100 meters of rabbits/foxes for a .22 shot or are people just using .223 because they like it?
• Is a .223 too powerful for what I want to do? Or as a first rifle?
• Do I really just need to get both?

Thanks

It's no problem getting close to rabbits. Most shots will be less than 50 meters so an easy head shot with the 22LR. 223 Remington is popular for foxes although the 22LR will do the job if you place your shots well.
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Re: .22 or .223 + for my first rifle (for rabbit/fox hunting

Post by Adlippy » 29 Jul 2016, 9:27 am

I have been wrestling with that question myself now for a while, so to reduce the internal arguments with myself I am getting both, should cover all bases, plus having only one rifle in a safe would get very lonely :?
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Re: .22 or .223 + for my first rifle (for rabbit/fox hunting

Post by tom604 » 29 Jul 2016, 10:42 am

.22 for a first rifle is the go, it will take bunnies and foxes out to 50 mtrs no problem :thumbsup: cheap to run and learn on :thumbsup:

but the second and there will be a second :lol: i would go for a 243, take everything up to deer but the ammo is pricey :thumbsdown: ,,just thought i would start the caliber creep :thumbsup:
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Re: .22 or .223 + for my first rifle (for rabbit/fox hunting

Post by southwest shooter » 29 Jul 2016, 12:05 pm

go and buy a howa in 204 and a decent scope and you'll be set.
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Re: .22 or .223 + for my first rifle (for rabbit/fox hunting

Post by Oldbloke » 29 Jul 2016, 2:41 pm

Buy a 22LR always a great first rifle. OK for rabbits to say 80 meters, and foxes to say 50 mtrs. Yes, 50 mtrs isn't far but with a whistle foxes often come in that close once you know what you are doing.

Then for the second either 12G or 223 depending on your shooting environment and needs. eg open or scrubby country.
Both are good for small pigs, goats and foxes. 12g is a good option for whistling foxes too.

For deer in Victoria a 243 is only legal for fallow. So better to buy a calibre for all deer, say 308, 270, 3006 and a few others. A 22LR, 12G, 223 & a legal deer sized calibre works for 95% of hunting situations.

If you later want to get into target competitions etc then it all changes.
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Re: .22 or .223 + for my first rifle (for rabbit/fox hunting

Post by David Brown » 29 Jul 2016, 3:47 pm

You need 1 x 22 for trigger time at low cost, and some steel targets to have fun and practise with.

You need 2 x .223, one for you and one for your girl.

Work up from there :-)
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Re: .22 or .223 + for my first rifle (for rabbit/fox hunting

Post by sakoBC » 29 Jul 2016, 5:22 pm

bentaz wrote:
sakoBC wrote:One of the reasons that this forum thrives is because there is no “do it all” calibre.

I call bulls**t and reach for a 12Ga :thumbsup:


I love my 20inch 12 gauge, but the holdover for a 150m shot is horrific :lol:
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Re: .22 or .223 + for my first rifle (for rabbit/fox hunting

Post by TysonRGS » 29 Jul 2016, 8:08 pm

Savage axis 223 is only $500 bucks, good for Mr fox not so much for rabbits a bit to much power and cost if your gonna be shooting a lot of them. But a 22lr is good for rabbits doesn't cost to much. But the 22lr will be hard to get the fox over 150m shot.
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Re: .22 or .223 + for my first rifle (for rabbit/fox hunting

Post by southwest shooter » 29 Jul 2016, 8:12 pm

get a 204 ffs , squeeze the trigger , no recoil so you can watch the show !
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Re: .22 or .223 + for my first rifle (for rabbit/fox hunting

Post by bladeracer » 30 Jul 2016, 1:35 am

Oldbloke wrote:For deer in Victoria a 243 is only legal for fallow



Fallow, Hog and Chital are .243 legal.
Red, Sambar and Rusa require .270.

http://www.gma.vic.gov.au/hunting/deer/hunting-methods
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Re: .22 or .223 + for my first rifle (for rabbit/fox hunting

Post by Oldbloke » 30 Jul 2016, 10:06 am

bladeracer wrote:
Oldbloke wrote:For deer in Victoria a 243 is only legal for fallow



Fallow, Hog and Chital are .243 legal.
Red, Sambar and Rusa require .270.

http://www.gma.vic.gov.au/hunting/deer/hunting-methods


I stand corrected. Forgot about chital and hog, but then who bothers with them anyway. Very few chital and a short season for hog.
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Re: .22 or .223 + for my first rifle (for rabbit/fox hunting

Post by NukeBOMB88 » 30 Jul 2016, 11:05 am

southwest shooter wrote:get a 204 ffs , squeeze the trigger , no recoil so you can watch the show !


+1 for the .204 . It's a fantastic caliber
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Re: .22 or .223 + for my first rifle (for rabbit/fox hunting

Post by southwest shooter » 30 Jul 2016, 1:50 pm

NukeBOMB88 wrote:
southwest shooter wrote:get a 204 ffs , squeeze the trigger , no recoil so you can watch the show !


+1 for the .204 . It's a fantastic caliber

best bit of advice you will ever get.
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Re: .22 or .223 + for my first rifle (for rabbit/fox hunting

Post by sandgroperbill » 30 Jul 2016, 4:56 pm

Get yourself a lithgow slazenger model 12 for next to nothing, then get yourself a .204 or .223. And maybe a cheap double shottie, a scope for the .204/.223 and a second hand scope for the .22. Don't be scared to go second hand and you can get the lot for a reasonable price.
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Re: .22 or .223 + for my first rifle (for rabbit/fox hunting

Post by NukeBOMB88 » 31 Jul 2016, 7:33 pm

bentaz wrote:
sandgroperbill wrote: . Don't be scared to go second hand and you can get the lot for a reasonable price.

Yup, I agree 100%. They don't actually make good guns any more.


If you think that then you haven't used a Howa :D
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Re: .22 or .223 + for my first rifle (for rabbit/fox hunting

Post by Elmer » 31 Jul 2016, 7:44 pm

Yeah go the .22, you can knock Bunnies off at 100yds with a little holdover (about 10cm ), they are easy to maintain, accurate and quiet. I do all my foxing with a .22lr using win power points, out to 75yds if you shoot them in the chest when they face you they will normally drop but some do run for about 20yds or so.
Side on chest shot out to 50-75yds on a fox will see them run for a short distance then drop (its hard to run without a heart or lungs)and of course a head shot out to 100yds will drop them instantly.
Just to let you know I shot a feral cat last Saturday at around 100yds with the .22lr I got her side on just behind the shoulder and in the middle of her lungs... she turned and ran for about 75-100yds then dropped stone dead.
Save the purchase of a .223 till a bit later...if you want to eat the Bunnies shot with a .223 then a head shot IS the only way to go or past 400yds (chest shot) where the bullet has shed a lot of it explosive power.
Have you thought about a .22Magnum?, you get an extra 50yds of range and a lot more grunt, heres a .22Mag vid I made about a year ago https://youtu.be/wFGX0_wzulg .
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Re: .22 or .223 + for my first rifle (for rabbit/fox hunting

Post by wade06 » 31 Jul 2016, 9:06 pm

I would say get a .22lr first up.

Another option is a 22 WMR. At HV it shoots flatter and harder than the 22lr plus you can still shoot subsonic ammo (winchester makes a 45 grain WMR round, not sure about others). That said the 22 WMR rounds will be considerably dearer than a 22lr and you don't have many choices.

Good luck :-)
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Re: .22 or .223 + for my first rifle (for rabbit/fox hunting

Post by scotty87 » 01 Aug 2016, 5:13 am

In terms of practical accuracy for hunting most $300-500 .22s like the zastava, marlin and savage will shoot as well with CCI standards as a $700-1000 .22 so you could cheap out on a .22 to get you into a .223 sooner if you want.

What you sacrifice in $$$ you sacrifice in aesthetics.

Personally if I had to do it all over I'd get a CZ452, it's what I always wanted as a first rifle, bought a marlin cos I was cheap, great little ugly gun, got traded on a .308.
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Re: .22 or .223 + for my first rifle (for rabbit/fox hunting

Post by scotty87 » 01 Aug 2016, 5:13 am

In terms of practical accuracy for hunting most $300-500 .22s like the zastava, marlin and savage will shoot as well with CCI standards as a $700-1000 .22 so you could cheap out on a .22 to get you into a .223 sooner if you want.

What you sacrifice in $$$ you sacrifice in aesthetics.

Personally if I had to do it all over I'd get a CZ452, it's what I always wanted as a first rifle, bought a marlin cos I was cheap, great little ugly gun, got traded on a .308.
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