Owning multiple pistols under NSW Firearms Act

[Rider888]

Is anyone able to shed some light as to why this paragraph is in the Firearms Act in relation to the 2nd 6 months of the PPL?

"you must not possess a centrefire and rimfire pistol at the same time - section 31(3C) of the Firearms Act 1996."

I dont understand it enough to know why it's an issue to say buy a 9mm Centerfire and also a .22 pistol Rimfire

Any advice would be great.

Thanks

[Trents57]

In NSW in the second 6 months of your PPL you can possess 2 handguns. The main restriction is that you cannot own a centrefire and a rimfire, You can have 2 rimfire ; or 2 centrefire ; or an air Pistol and a rimfire ; or an air Pistol and a centrefire ; or a blackpowder with a rimfire or ; blackpowder and centrefire.

[Rider888]

Because during the second six months you may only own one gun. It can be either a cetre fire or a rimfire. But as you are only allowed one it cannot be both.

Here is the writing that states you can own 2 pistols during your PPL;

During the second six months you may acquire no more than two pistols, any one of which is:
* A centrefire pistol, or
* A rimfire pistol with a calibre of no more than .22 inch, or
* An air pistol with a calibre of no more than .177 inch, or
* A black powder pistol.
However, you must not possess a centrefire and rimfire pistol at the same time - section 31(3C) of the Firearms Act
1996.

[Wylie27]

Because they want to make it hard for us pistol shooters.

Nothing more and nothing less.

As you are new, you will discover that the legislation rarely makes sense, its been written buly people who have no idea about firearms and these same people generally hate firearms.

When you see something that makes no sense refer to the above paragraph

[Rider888]

Because they want to make it hard for us pistol shooters.

Nothing more and nothing less.

As you are new, you will discover that the legislation rarely makes sense, its been written buly people who have no idea about firearms and these same people generally hate firearms.

When you see something that makes no sense refer to the above paragraph

[Rider888]

Such a shame. I was looking forward to buying my first 9mm and .22 pistols

[Wylie27]

Yeah it sucks. Its stupid and makes no sense.

Luckily i didnt have to go through the PPL process last year. I got to go straight to my full licence. Previously held a cat h. So the far gave me dispensation. Just had to join a club and go through the training

[Daddybang]

Because they want to make it hard for us pistol shooters.

Nothing more and nothing less.

As you are new, you will discover that the legislation rarely makes sense, its been written buly people who have no idea about firearms and these same people generally hate firearms.

When you see something that makes no sense refer to the above paragraph

Dead right!!! Trying to make sense of firearms legislation/regulations will just give ya a bad headache!!!

[Wobble]

Is anyone able to shed some light as to why this paragraph is in the Firearms Act in relation to the 2nd 6 months of the PPL?

"you must not possess a centrefire and rimfire pistol at the same time - section 31(3C) of the Firearms Act 1996."

You need to read the whole sections of the act when you want to know something, mate. Taking one line out of context isn't going to give you the right answer.

I don't know where you got that particular quote from either actually, as that's not what it says in the act, unless you were paraphrasing?

This is quoted from section 31 of the NSW Act.

(3B)In the case of a person who is the holder of a probationary pistol licence, and without limiting subsections (3) and (3A), the Commissioner:

(a)during the initial probationary period referred to in section 16A (2)—must not issue a permit authorising the person to acquire any kind of pistol, and

(b)during the remainder of the term of the licence—may only issue a total of 2 permits authorising the person to acquire no more than 2 pistols, any one of which (subject to subsection (3C)) is:

(i) a centrefire pistol, or
(ii) a rimfire pistol with a calibre of no more than .22 inch, or
(iii) an air pistol with a calibre of no more than .177 inch, or
(iv) a black powder pistol.

(3C) However, nothing in subsection (3B) (b) authorises the holder of a probationary pistol licence to possess a centrefire pistol and a rimfire pistol at the same time.

Gotta read the whole thing (as convoluted as it can sometimes be).

[bullzeye]

This section of the legislation doesn't make much sense to LAFOs. It would be good if the FAR could explain.

You just have to wait till you are on your full Cat H then you can buy whatever combination of calibre you wish.

[pomemax]

OR and its a big OR you could buy a 9mm and then get a conversion kit that lets you to fire .22 for economy used to be you did not need a pta for conversion kit but once you add it to the 9mm frame the 22 kit you have a .22 that,s not registered best bet wait 6 months

[Rider888]

Wobble... That is exactly right. What you have posted also clearly states that you are not permitted to own a centerfires and rimfire pistol at the same time while on PPL.

Is anyone able to shed some light as to why this paragraph is in the Firearms Act in relation to the 2nd 6 months of the PPL?

"you must not possess a centrefire and rimfire pistol at the same time - section 31(3C) of the Firearms Act 1996."

You need to read the whole sections of the act when you want to know something, mate. Taking one line out of context isn't going to give you the right answer.

I don't know where you got that particular quote from either actually, as that's not what it says in the act, unless you were paraphrasing?

This is quoted from section 31 of the NSW Act.

(3B)In the case of a person who is the holder of a probationary pistol licence, and without limiting subsections (3) and (3A), the Commissioner:

(a)during the initial probationary period referred to in section 16A (2)—must not issue a permit authorising the person to acquire any kind of pistol, and

(b)during the remainder of the term of the licence—may only issue a total of 2 permits authorising the person to acquire no more than 2 pistols, any one of which (subject to subsection (3C)) is:

(i) a centrefire pistol, or
(ii) a rimfire pistol with a calibre of no more than .22 inch, or
(iii) an air pistol with a calibre of no more than .177 inch, or
(iv) a black powder pistol.

(3C) However, nothing in subsection (3B) (b) authorises the holder of a probationary pistol licence to possess a centrefire pistol and a rimfire pistol at the same time.

Gotta read the whole thing (as convoluted as it can sometimes be).

[brett1868]

OR and its a big OR you could buy a 9mm and then get a conversion kit that lets you to fire .22 for economy used to be you did not need a pta for conversion kit but once you add it to the 9mm frame the 22 kit you have a .22 that,s not registered best bet wait 6 months

Yeah but nah....Once you fit the 22LR conversion to the receiver you are guilty of being in possession of a prohibited firearm UNLESS the conversion is listed on the registration paper. Once fully licensed then the conversion, if properly noted on the registration is an economical way to acquire a rimfire.

[bigM]

A centrefire with a 22 conversion kit is fine. You just need the serial number of the second barrel on the rego papers.
While you need a PTA for the orginal centrefire, you do not need one for the conversion kit (in NSW).

Note that in this case you do not have a centrefire and a rimfire. You have a centrefire with 2 barrels.
No laws broken and you only have participation requirements for a centrefire.

The NSW laws are a bad interpretation of the NFA.
However, we should let it lie as it lets us have 2 centrefires in the second 6 months, something that is not allowed in most states.

[brett1868]

A centrefire with a 22 conversion kit is fine. You just need the serial number of the second barrel on the rego papers.
While you need a PTA for the orginal centrefire, you do not need one for the conversion kit (in NSW).

Note that in this case you do not have a centrefire and a rimfire. You have a centrefire with 2 barrels.
No laws broken and you only have participation requirements for a centrefire.

The NSW laws are a bad interpretation of the NFA.
However, we should let it lie as it lets us have 2 centrefires in the second 6 months, something that is not allowed in most states.

You're not wrong about it being a bad interpretation. OP is in his first 6 month so his CF pistol will be a H9 Rego and if he tries adding a H8 barrel to a H9 rego then it's gets really fuzzy. I'll put the question to my contact in the registry next time I'm talking to her and see what they suggest. Technically if he only has the 1 pistol in 9mm with a 22LR conversion then he'll have either a CF or a RF and not both which s compliant to the rule. If he has 2 CF pistols and fits the RF conversion to 1 then he's in breach. The 6 months passes quick and allows time to save for the next pistol

[Robert Marshall]

I ask the same question and I did some research and found the answer as to why one cannot possess a rimfire and centrefire in the 2nd 6 months of a probationary period. Go to the Firearms Amendment (Prohibited Pistols) Bill 2003. This is purportedly where the amendment came in. The first line reads as follows "The object of this Bill is to reduce the number of pistols in the community and to strengthen controls over access to pistols that are used for the purposes of sport/target shooting." See the following link: https://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/view ... 557ff91ec7

[tb65]

I ask the same question and I did some research and found the answer as to why one cannot possess a rimfire and centrefire in the 2nd 6 months of a probationary period. Go to the Firearms Amendment (Prohibited Pistols) Bill 2003. This is purportedly where the amendment came in. The first line reads as follows "The object of this Bill is to reduce the number of pistols in the community and to strengthen controls over access to pistols that are used for the purposes of sport/target shooting." See the following link: https://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/view ... 557ff91ec7

Well it certainly achieves that, albeit for just a 6-month period.

I'm just into my 2nd six months of a PPL and I decided to buy a centrefire pistol. I probably would've also bought myself a Mark IV Ruger had it not been for the rules but since the club only has 22LRs for member use, that made the decision easy.

[Jimibald1]

As rediculous as it is, I understand that the purpose of this restriction is to ensure that probationary pistol license holders gain experience and proficiency with a single type of pistol before being let loose on or allowed to possess both types. I understand that it is a nanny safety measure to prevent potential misuse or accidents due to a lack of experience with different types of pistols.

[alexjones]

^^^

Yes but if that was the case they would make you only shoot rimfire first then after a year get a centrefire.

It is purely meant to make the experience more arduous. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Jackaroo]

As rediculous as it is, I understand that the purpose of this restriction is to ensure that probationary pistol license holders gain experience and proficiency with a single type of pistol before being let loose on or allowed to possess both types. I understand that it is a nanny safety measure to prevent potential misuse or accidents due to a lack of experience with different types of pistols.

Sorry mate, that's just a ridiculous statement.

[Jimibald1]

As rediculous as it is, I understand that the purpose of this restriction is to ensure that probationary pistol license holders gain experience and proficiency with a single type of pistol before being let loose on or allowed to possess both types. I understand that it is a nanny safety measure to prevent potential misuse or accidents due to a lack of experience with different types of pistols.

Sorry mate, that's just a ridiculous statement.

It is ridiculous and I'll lern to spel one of these days.

[Jimibald1]

^^^

Yes but if that was the case they would make you only shoot rimfire first then after a year get a centrefire.

It is purely meant to make the experience more arduous. Nothing more, nothing less.

Yeh. Thats what my wife and I thought as well.

What I was told when I made a song and dance about how stupid the rule was, is that "those who know better" thought it best that a new shooter be required to concentrate on one category of pistol during the second 6 months of probation. Doesn't matter which one... just pick one.

I can't say that I know every rule in the book, but while the rules say that I cant posses a centerfire and rimfire at the same time during the probation period, I haven't come across a rule that says that I cant use the clubs or my mates centrefire if I own rimfire during that period.

So I go down to the local for some shooting practice during my PPL with my centrefire, and while I'm there I take the opportunity to plug away with the clubs or my mates rimfire. I dont think that's illegal, but apparently it will confuse the bugger out of me.

Definitely trying to make the experience more arduous.

[bladeracer]

Yeh. Thats what my wife and I thought as well.

What I was told when I made a song and dance about how stupid the rule was, is that "those who know better" thought it best that a new shooter be required to concentrate on one category of pistol during the second 6 months of probation. Doesn't matter which one... just pick one.

I can't say that I know every rule in the book, but while the rules say that I cant posses a centerfire and rimfire at the same time during the probation period, I haven't come across a rule that says that I cant use the clubs or my mates centrefire if I own rimfire during that period.

So I go down to the local for some shooting practice during my PPL with my centrefire, and while I'm there I take the opportunity to plug away with the clubs or my mates rimfire. I dont think that's illegal, but apparently it will confuse the bugger out of me.

Definitely trying to make the experience more arduous.

Some members of our club get annoyed that while we can only _own_ a centrefire _or_ a rimfire pistol, we can have possession of both so we can borrow them and bring them to the club for testing and shooting matches. But they won't allow members to use conversion kits within the first six months, unless it's a Walther GSP.

Do what I did, join with your spouse, then between the two of you you can own lots of pistols in the first six months.

[Jimibald1]

Yeh. Thats what my wife and I thought as well.

What I was told when I made a song and dance about how stupid the rule was, is that "those who know better" thought it best that a new shooter be required to concentrate on one category of pistol during the second 6 months of probation. Doesn't matter which one... just pick one.

I can't say that I know every rule in the book, but while the rules say that I cant posses a centerfire and rimfire at the same time during the probation period, I haven't come across a rule that says that I cant use the clubs or my mates centrefire if I own rimfire during that period.

So I go down to the local for some shooting practice during my PPL with my centrefire, and while I'm there I take the opportunity to plug away with the clubs or my mates rimfire. I dont think that's illegal, but apparently it will confuse the bugger out of me.

Definitely trying to make the experience more arduous.

Some members of our club get annoyed that while we can only _own_ a centrefire _or_ a rimfire pistol, we can have possession of both so we can borrow them and bring them to the club for testing and shooting matches. But they won't allow members to use conversion kits within the first six months, unless it's a Walther GSP.

Do what I did, join with your spouse, then between the two of you you can own lots of pistols in the first six months.

Doing exactly that. Wife and I are booked in for next month.

[bladeracer]

Doing exactly that. Wife and I are booked in for next month.

Perfect
It took almost nine months by the time we had our licences and pistols in our hands. Another couple joined around the same time and are licenced but can't yet decide on which pistols they want to buy.

I bought the Browning Hi-Power 9mm for IPSC, 3-Gun, Service Pistol, and ISSF Centrefire. The Morini CM22M .22LR for ISSF Rimfire matches, and a pair of Remington New Model Army .44 blackpowder revolvers for Cowboy and ISSF Blackpowder. I also picked up a Beretta Neos .22LR for the rail so I can decide if I want to use optics in practical disciplines, and am chasing a S&W Model 19 .357 4" for Service Pistol. I'm also trying to buy an 1851 Colt Navy .36 blackpowder. These last three will all sit with the dealer for five months, but he does let us borrow them to shoot matches. I'm not into air-pistol but have improved significantly since switching to my left hand, so if I can find a Rohm Twinmaster I'll grab it. It works particularly well for me because the front sight is so far from my eye.

[Bugman]

yep. The best thing, as has been mentioned. is, if their are two of you embarking on your pistol adventure (husband/wife brother/sister, brother/brother or sister/sister ....you get the picture) is that one applies for two rimfires (or rimfire and air pistol) and the other, two centrefires. This has been done at my club for a long time. All fair and legal under the current legislation, which I also agree is oh so
erroneous in this state.

[bladeracer]

yep. The best thing, as has been mentioned. is, if their are two of you embarking on your pistol adventure (husband/wife brother/sister, brother/brother or sister/sister ....you get the picture) is that one applies for two rimfires (or rimfire and air pistol) and the other, two centrefires. This has been done at my club for a long time. All fair and legal under the current legislation, which I also agree is oh so
erroneous in this state.

Here in Vic we can only have one rimfire/centrefire for the first six months. I have the Hi-Power, Rose has the CM22M, which I just shot a 50m ISSF match with this arvo. We need to get Rose in there so we can spend some time adjusting the grip to her hand, testing some different ammo (but it shoots very well with CCI Std Vel which is good), and zero it to her eye. For me it's spot on at 25m, for her it shoots maybe 90mm high. Rose shot her first Standard Pistol Match with it on Saturday and set a club record apparently, due to the handicapping, which I don't understand. She improved her previous best by 125pt and set a handicap total of 733pt I think he said. He tried to explain it to me just now but I still don't get it. The handicap is based on her previous five matches, all shot with different club pistols. Shooting her own pistol blew the average out of the water. She shot 384/600. I shot my first Standard match with it last week and shot 386/600. I haven't scored or recorded any of our Rimfire/Centrefire shoots with club pistols so I don't know precisely where our usual scores were. The club pistols are all zeroed to different places and have varying degrees of problems so we've considered it all to just be rough practice rather than shooting matches. To actually manage to fire all 65rds to complete a match with the club guns has been a rarity.

[alexjones]

One legal way to get around it is you buy the guns but the club possesses them and stores them at the range on their licence and when you go to the range just use them. Then when you have full pistol licence just get your PTAs and you already have the guns.

Obviously you have to get on with the club.

[Bugman]

One legal way to get around it is you buy the guns but the club possesses them and stores them at the range on their licence and when you go to the range just use them. Then when you have full pistol licence just get your PTAs and you already have the guns.

Obviously you have to get on with the club.

yes that has happened at my club, but in a limited capacity, and when available, has worked quite well.