NSW -offence to have tech drawings of guns

[Baronvonrort]

I was looking at the firearms act and noticed a few changes from 4th Jan 2016.

51F appears to be new-
1. A person must not posses a digital blueprint for the manufacture of a firearm on a 3D printer or electronic milling machine
Max penalty; 14 years.
3.Digital blueprint means any type of digital or electronic reproduction of a technical drawing of the design of an object.
www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/maintop/view ... 996+cd+0+N

Since they have defined digital blueprint as any type of digital or electronic reproduction of a technical drawing it means any pictures you have on hard drive or external memory of technical drawings of guns that have dimensions are illegal.

I have done a bit of Technical drawing, I still have an old fashioned drawing board which I still use for some things, if it has no dimensions it's just a drawing to me a technical drawing has dimensions.

What I do with paper and a pencil is not a digital blueprint according to this new change, it sounds like it's ok to print them and cover them with clear contact so they last in storage but not ok to store these images electronically.

Has anyone heard anything about this in the news or did the filthy liberals sneak this one in?

[Oldbloke]

ANOTHER

CAN OF WORMS 2.jpg (8.5 KiB) Viewed 7585 times

[Baronvonrort]

If you are in NSW I suggest printing before deleting.

[<<Genesis93>>]

The fact that they even refer to it as a 'blueprint' just shows how up to date those ass wranglers are..... a term that hails from the time when leeches were a cutting edge medical treatment.

The couldnt justify the 3d printer ban, so theyve gone about it the other way.

What a joke

[brett1868]

A little vague but after reading it a few times it becomes a little clearer. Essentially they are prohibiting the possession of files used to print 3D guns rather then technical drawings.

must not possess a digital blueprint for the manufacture of a firearm on a 3D printer

digital blueprint means any type of digital (or electronic) reproduction of a technical drawing of the design of an object

The definition of "Digital Blueprint" is the confusing part but since you can't manufacture a firearm on a 3d printer from a drawing you're fine to have them, just don't get caught with any firearm files in 3D print formats. I've got the stl files to print a 3D rubber band gun so I'm curious if I am now in break of this law, does it apply to toys? replicas? minitures?

[<<Genesis93>>]

Well... you were fine brett, until you told them
It doesnt specify the format.... so a common milspec m16 scan in pdf would be enough to get you an appointment with a wig... ah the land of the free.

[Baronvonrort]

A little vague but after reading it a few times it becomes a little clearer. Essentially they are prohibiting the possession of files used to print 3D guns.

The definition of "Digital Blueprint" is the confusing part but since you can't manufacture a firearm on a 3d printer from a drawing you're fine to have them, just don't get caught with any firearm files in 3D print formats.

They mentioned reproduction of technical drawing in their definition, to me there is a huge difference between a technical drawing with dimensions and tolerances which can be a single page to the files needed for 3D printing or CNC milling and this indicates to me you cannot have of gun drawings with dimensions-tolerances on your computer.

You need a technical drawings with dimensions-tolerances before you can program something far more complicated like 3D printing or CNC milling, there is no mention of programs yet technical drawing is specifically mentioned.

What has become clearer is the idiocy from our elected law writers.

[<<Genesis93>>]

Describibg this action as Idiocy.
Thats offensive to idiots..

[brett1868]

The A-Holes are deliberately vague I suspect as this particular text can be interpreted in several ways, the fact that just amongst the few of us here there's already different interpretations. I can see it both ways, why can't they just state "Must not possess 3D printer format files capable of printing firearms or print 3D firearms". I'm no lawyer but my 1 statement is far clearer then the crap they took the trouble of writing and publishing.

[Baronvonrort]

If you try google for 10/22 or ar15 blueprint anything that has dimensions-tolerances can be considered a blueprint or technical drawing, they are now outlawed to have on computers or external memory.
It could be argued anything without dimensions like exploded views are not technical drawings or blueprints so they are ok to have on your computer.

I am not a lawyer I have technical drawing and CAD experience,my thoughts are it's ok to print blueprints and stick them in a filing cabinet yet not ok to leave them on your computer

[brett1868]

My understanding is that since those files cannot directly be sent to a 3D printer to produce the firearm then they are not therefore prohibited. Either way it'll cost you a fortune to defend your innocence in a court of law. Australia - Guilty till proven innocent and innocence and be bought for a price.

[bluerob]

So all the firearms books out there that contain specifications that a machinist could easily input into wacky doo machines, are now also illegal?

I saw a book that contains exploded views, size, dimensions etc of revolvers. This is deemed illegal to possess?

I'm flat out trying to make a decent paper aeroplane, let alone build anything that goes bang.

Looks like the "ghost soldiers" are making moves that are trying hard to ensure that throwing a ball will be illegal, let alone owning firearms.

[<<Genesis93>>]

Its not really relevant what reasonably intelligent people make of the 'law'....

WE know that you CAN NOT take a pdf of a 45 year old technical drawing, tolerances detailed or not, or even a CAD file of an elevation/s - and directly CAD/CAM a product, we KNOW THAT......

but the words read as they read;

51F Possession of digital blueprints for manufacture of firearms

(1) A person must not possess a digital blueprint for the manufacture of a firearm on a 3D printer or on an electronic milling machine.

Maximum penalty: imprisonment for 14 years.

And the definition is not ambiguous at all....

digital blueprint means any type of digital (or electronic) reproduction of a technical drawing of the design of an object.

But possession is possession right?;

possession, of a digital blueprint, includes the following:

(a) possession of a computer or data storage device holding or containing the blueprint or of a document in which the blueprint is recorded,

(b) control of the blueprint held in a computer that is in the possession of another person (whether the computer is in this jurisdiction or outside this jurisdiction).

As per all other provisions of firearm law, the police will not interpret the law, THEY TAKE YOUR GUNS, " 'cause theyre just doing their job"... the good luck, in front of the Mag, He/She is the only one who will decide on the interpretation.... In the mean time it would cost you lots of money, time and heartache in defending your self and regaining your licence and firearms....

Note:
They even accept that the offending file might be OUTSIDE of their jurisdiction....! I guess they'll have to extradite the offending bits

Seriously though, this law is highly offensive to liberty, freedom.... prohibited computer files I can see the metadata used to target individuals who 'frequent' various DIY websites containing the files, then the police giving the masterkey a run, with the AR15/MP5 squad in tow....

MCMLXXXIV?
Had your Soylent Green today?

[happyhunter]

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[<<Genesis93>>]

You mean an exploded view?
No, It could only be described as a technical drawing is it had all components dimensioned, whether the information can be translated into a form to allow 3D print / 'electronic milling' ie CAM... is not relevant according to the law....

[brett1868]

The 2 items are being interpreted separately by most when they should be read as one. The definition in 51F - 3 only applies to section 51F - 1 and is not a separate law as it doesn't start with "A person must not" nor is there any penalties listed. If you have a file that can be sent to a 3D printer that produces a "firearm" then you're in trouble otherwise there's no problem.

[Spudman75]

You mean an exploded view?
No, It could only be described as a technical drawing is it had all components dimensioned, whether the information can be translated into a form to allow 3D print / 'electronic milling' ie CAM... is not relevant according to the law....

Next they will ban the actual gun, just in case you happen to measure something and write it down which would then be technical information!

[happyhunter]

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[brett1868]

Grapevine says this is related to the growing black market in homemade guns and they don't know how to stop it. You don't need a 3D printer, or a milling machine or lathe to make a basic firearm so they go no hope in hell with this one.

Very true, a few bucks at Bunnings and a couple hours you can have a 12Ga tube gun which I'd deem a bigger threat then 3D printed guns. I guess the lawmakers will always be playing catchup with technology.

[<<Genesis93>>]

The 2 items are being interpreted separately by most when they should be read as one. The definition in 51F - 3 only applies to section 51F - 1 and is not a separate law as it doesn't start with "A person must not" nor is there any penalties listed. If you have a file that can be sent to a 3D printer that produces a "firearm" then you're in trouble otherwise there's no problem.

I think its simple, section 51F makes it an offence to possess a digital blueprint, the penalty is a prison sentence of up to 14years.

Within the section, for the purposes of the section;
a digital blueprint means any type of digital (or electronic) reproduction of a technical drawing of the design of an object.

It sounds simple to me, it doesnt mention that the files must be of a format or coding necessary for direct CAD/CAM use - What part have I misconstrued, misunderstood or misinterpreted

All I would say is good luck to the New South Welshmen shooters, this could potentially be an excuse for the safe 'inspection' to become a safe and computer inspection.... now that the gun law has breached the digital divide... AND our law enforcement friends have access to our web surfing and communication history....

[happyhunter]

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[Redwood]

Better take down those exploded view posters

[Tindog]

the key word most of you missed was ON ! A person must not posses a digital blueprint for the manufacture of a firearm ON a 3D printer or electronic milling machine
as in loaded into memory or the cnc computer so the machine can "print" the file.. Just having a picture or drawing would in no way be an offence.. banning 3d printers would be the answer, as I don't have one and don't need one (just like libs and tree huggers don't want or need a gun) its only fair!

[chacka]

banning 3d printers would be the answer, as I don't have one and don't need one (just like libs and tree huggers don't want or need a gun) its only fair!

And then there'll be a lucrative black market in printing 3d printers!

[happyhunter]

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[<<Genesis93>>]

This is similar to the USA recently when they tried to 'ban' the milsurp 5.56NATO m855 due to its enhanced performance or penetration description.... describing it as armour piercing and therefore not suitable for mere civilians.... that backfired, but it was clearly a fall back plan when there was no assault weapon ban traction - go through the back door and control the most common fodder....

Same with the 3d printers; so many interested parties have had a hard on for a ban, for several years, the greentards went the senate inquiry TO CONTROL THE 3D PRINTERS but it would be the most ridiculous move had it been supported, we would really be the laughing stock of the globe - banning a printer in case someone is foolish enough to 'print' a single shot / single use self destructing 'gun'....... so what to do???? Ban the 'information' that might potentially... possibly be translated into a format that could be used by a 3d printer.....

Will have to check the Hansard and review the input that the leader of the NSW tards had in the process in getting this stupidity into law...

[brett1868]

"Minority Report" sounding more and more plausible in the not so distant future. Does anyone remember all the noise about colour laser printers being able to print counterfeit money? Manufacturers had to rewrite firmware and drivers that would recognise banknotes and watermark any copies. Same stupid approach may be suggested for 3D printers, I certainly hope not.

[Tiiger]

Does anyone remember all the noise about colour laser printers being able to print counterfeit money? Manufacturers had to rewrite firmware and drivers that would recognise banknotes and watermark any copies.

lol, really?

Print quality when we were on paper money wasn't anywhere even remotely near good enough to print a passable note from a laser. Still isn't.

f*** these people and their paranoia and stupid reactions, that's all I can say.

[happyhunter]

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[Korkt]

Next they will ban the actual gun, just in case you happen to measure something and write it down which would then be technical information!

Better be careful if you've got a good eye for measurements you don't accidentally say out loud what size something is