An interesting read of a current court case.

Questions about New South Wales gun and ammunition laws. NSW Firearms Act 1996.

An interesting read of a current court case.

Post by bladeracer » 01 Jun 2020, 4:10 pm

https://www.caselaw.nsw.gov.au/decision/1725e113c8ef2bb57ba95f98?fbclid=IwAR1Bzpp-d8Xv_gqQULy-gFXhO5-yjYa6_i100BX9cgnucXoyKczf4sjsDeg

Basically, a Youtuber with an incredible history of disregarding our laws for decades, and posting videos of his illegal activities online, appealing his declined licence application as "not in the public interest".
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Re: An interesting read of a current court case.

Post by womble » 01 Jun 2020, 5:26 pm

What was his channel, YouTube acct.
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Re: An interesting read of a current court case.

Post by TassieTiger » 01 Jun 2020, 5:32 pm

I have to say - I’m surprised he was granted a licence at all given history of offences...
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Re: An interesting read of a current court case.

Post by bladeracer » 01 Jun 2020, 5:33 pm

womble wrote:What was his channel, YouTube acct.


I have seen it some time ago, I'll have to see if I can find it again.
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Re: An interesting read of a current court case.

Post by bladeracer » 01 Jun 2020, 5:36 pm

TassieTiger wrote:I have to say - I’m surprised he was granted a licence at all given history of offences...


Yes, that really surprised me too, especially his dealer offences, I thought dealers were held to very high standards of compliance. Using his dealer licence to sell a prohibited M14 rifle to his personal licence, that he was not licenced to own - what the hell.
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Re: An interesting read of a current court case.

Post by rc42 » 01 Jun 2020, 5:42 pm

Interesting read, had a look at his youtube channel 'steveleeilikeguns' too

The guy is somewhat over the top and probably dangerous to be near when shooting but likely not a danger to the public in general.

Well and truly raises two fingers to the legislation though, some of the firearms he uses on his rural property can only be lawfully used at approved ranges hence his charge for operating an unapproved range.

Very interesting that in the end it was his driving record that lost him an A/B license
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Re: An interesting read of a current court case.

Post by bladeracer » 01 Jun 2020, 5:42 pm

bladeracer wrote:
womble wrote:What was his channel, YouTube acct.


I have seen it some time ago, I'll have to see if I can find it again.



https://www.youtube.com/user/steveleeilikeguns/videos
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Re: An interesting read of a current court case.

Post by womble » 01 Jun 2020, 5:48 pm

Oh i know that channel.
He always reminded me of Russel Coight, except with guns.
I don’t think he’s a danger to the public though, as firearms are concerned.
Driving, well it is the Northern Territory. If he was speeding through towns that’s pretty bad but you’d think he’d know that.
Out in the wasteland, pretty much everyone averages around 140kph. In which case I’d consider him one of the safest drivers in the NT.
Been a long time since I’ve been there, but from memory reasonably lawless.
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Re: An interesting read of a current court case.

Post by TassieTiger » 01 Jun 2020, 5:48 pm

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Re: An interesting read of a current court case.

Post by No1Mk3 » 01 Jun 2020, 6:40 pm

Steve Lee is (was?) very well known for his firearms advocacy and opposition to the post-PAM changes. His offending against the Firearms Act, each in it's own, was wrong but to have done the same thing multiple times was simply stupid. having said that, he has shown contrition and the offences are mainly "historical" so the return of his Licence was not opposed on those grounds, it was his demonstration via his driving to ignore the Law, that ultimately cost. A clean driving record for the next couple of years and he should be OK to get a Cat A/B , but I feel he will never again get a Dealers or even a handgun licence. Cheers.
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Re: An interesting read of a current court case.

Post by womble » 01 Jun 2020, 7:06 pm

Well he did save Australia from a giant rabbit, surely that has to be taken into consideration
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MblIJ2Cixok
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Re: An interesting read of a current court case.

Post by Crazy » 01 Jun 2020, 7:15 pm

Wow, i was under the impression that he had his own ranges and was contract shooting on clients land but no it was all just illegal. No wonder he hasn't mentioned this much and its a wonder that he managed to get onto hickok45 range and podcast. Pretty much every video he uploaded to Youtube was done illegal like him shooting his prohibited M14 or his pistols with his son (Who probably isn't even licensed.).
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Re: An interesting read of a current court case.

Post by TassieTiger » 01 Jun 2020, 8:03 pm

Is there anything to support that those videos were not done over seas ?
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Re: An interesting read of a current court case.

Post by bladeracer » 01 Jun 2020, 8:08 pm

TassieTiger wrote:Is there anything to support that those videos were not done over seas ?


Probably the vegetation is sufficient.
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Re: An interesting read of a current court case.

Post by AussieCapitalist » 01 Jun 2020, 8:16 pm

Most of those videos are not even in Australia. You can see the Asians and it even says its in Cambodia. I have done the same thing over there. The only ones in Australia are of him shooting the pigs with his cat D sks. He is not to bad of a shot though. Shooting a moving target with only iron sights from about 100m and only using 1-2 rounds.
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Re: An interesting read of a current court case.

Post by AussieCapitalist » 01 Jun 2020, 8:44 pm

What kind of sped wrote that link you posted mate? Clearly knows nothing about firearms.

The M14 is select fire IE AUTOMATIC and came out in 1959 NOT WW2. I would dare say they are referring to an M1 Garand which is not select fire and was used in WW2. He should look into that as the details are not correct and a good lawyer can at least try to clear that up.

A semi auto version of the M14 is the M1A which is a Cat D rifle. I highly doubt he had a select fire M14 seeing as that can not be operable. Either way those charges do not make sense.
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Re: An interesting read of a current court case.

Post by AussieCapitalist » 01 Jun 2020, 9:11 pm

In what world is 1959 WW2? Good credibility NSW government.

Either way old mate has some legal troubles that's for sure.
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Re: An interesting read of a current court case.

Post by Ziege » 01 Jun 2020, 9:26 pm

Hab I can remember this guy on that living with the enemy, he seemed like a douche then, a lot of his offending would have been a nil offence in the USA, he should've moved years ago
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Re: An interesting read of a current court case.

Post by rc42 » 02 Jun 2020, 12:13 am

He calls it an M14 in his own video but I know nothing about those
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpBd57b7YvQ

And that's the same 'range' where he is using the pistol where he hands his son a very hot final round, presumably that is the .45 revolver.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-r-mQLPiFk

It certainly looks like Australia and if the police had been there they would have pictures to compare and confirm that, also, he doesn't dispute any of that.


Not too sure on use of Cat D firearms, he may only be able to use them at an approved range or for contract work so not on his own property for recreational shooting, the pistol is certainly restricted to approved ranges only.
Use of either of those in a place where they cannot lawfully be used would be covered under the charge of use of a firearm at an unapproved range.
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Re: An interesting read of a current court case.

Post by rc42 » 02 Jun 2020, 12:23 am

Just had a look at one of the Hickok45 videos, is Hickok some kind of giant or is Steve just tiny?
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Re: An interesting read of a current court case.

Post by bladeracer » 02 Jun 2020, 1:02 am

rc42 wrote:Just had a look at one of the Hickok45 videos, is Hickok some kind of giant or is Steve just tiny?


Hickok45 is 6'8" I think, his son is similar.
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Re: An interesting read of a current court case.

Post by womble » 02 Jun 2020, 3:51 am

Kinda feel bad for him, because they’ve taken away the love of his life. And he never hurt anyone.
But then, showing off his arsenal on YouTube for anyone too see. I think that’s where it gets stupid and dangerous. It would’nt be hard for the wrong people to befriend and influence him if you understand my meaning. Nor would it be hard for them to just take all his stuff.
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Re: An interesting read of a current court case.

Post by Archie » 02 Jun 2020, 7:11 am

AussieCapitalist wrote:Most of those videos are not even in Australia. You can see the Asians and it even says its in Cambodia. I have done the same thing over there. The only ones in Australia are of him shooting the pigs with his cat D sks. He is not to bad of a shot though. Shooting a moving target with only iron sights from about 100m and only using 1-2 rounds.


I don’t know if they are still up on youtube but I remember when he used to post regularly, he had posted vids of shooting handguns on his own property. Leaving aside whether you should be able to do that, it’s a definite no no under a NSW Cat H licence.
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Re: An interesting read of a current court case.

Post by straightshooter » 02 Jun 2020, 7:17 am

I noticed this thread with the usual array of comments so I thought I would follow the original link and read the actual tribunal decision. (OK so I'm a masochist)
A little way through this jumped out at me.
Section 10 under heading Applicable Legislation
The Tribunal’s function in relation to applications before it is set out in section 63 of the ADR Act:
63 Determination of administrative review by Tribunal
(1) In determining an application for an administrative review under this Act of an administratively reviewable decision, the Tribunal is to decide what the correct and preferable decision is having regard to the material then before it, including the following:
(a) any relevant factual material,
(b) any applicable written or unwritten law.

So we in NSW have unwritten laws.
Note it doesn't say Common Law.
From where do these unwritten laws emanate?
How does one know if one is liable to offend against one of these unwritten laws?
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Re: An interesting read of a current court case.

Post by AussieCapitalist » 02 Jun 2020, 7:32 am

The videos of him shooting automatic firearms are in Cambodia.He might of deleted the videos of him shooting handguns on private land in Australia. You can shoot handguns on private land if you have a primary production licence for handguns or a feral pest controller licence for handguns . I think only about 100 people in Queensland have primary production handgun licences. So it is one of the rarest licences.

He calls it an M14 but it is not. An M14 is military designation for a select fire rifle. What he has is the M1A which is identical but not select fire.

The M14 came out into service in 1959 but his charge says M14 a WW2 rifle? How stupid is the NSW government.
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Re: An interesting read of a current court case.

Post by womble » 02 Jun 2020, 9:25 am

Unwritten Law would by definition make it legal.
But i in this context you have to remember NSW firearms laws were originally discovered in a box of cornflakes
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Re: An interesting read of a current court case.

Post by TassieTiger » 02 Jun 2020, 9:58 am

straightshooter wrote:I noticed this thread with the usual array of comments so I thought I would follow the original link and read the actual tribunal decision. (OK so I'm a masochist)
A little way through this jumped out at me.
Section 10 under heading Applicable Legislation
The Tribunal’s function in relation to applications before it is set out in section 63 of the ADR Act:
63 Determination of administrative review by Tribunal
(1) In determining an application for an administrative review under this Act of an administratively reviewable decision, the Tribunal is to decide what the correct and preferable decision is having regard to the material then before it, including the following:
(a) any relevant factual material,
(b) any applicable written or unwritten law.

So we in NSW have unwritten laws.
Note it doesn't say Common Law.
From where do these unwritten laws emanate?
How does one know if one is liable to offend against one of these unwritten laws?


That’s a good pick up - wtf is an unwritten law and how is it to be applied. Lol. That’s quite amazing.
Hey - you just shot twice inside 1 minute, I’ll have ya licence thanks mate?
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Re: An interesting read of a current court case.

Post by AussieCapitalist » 02 Jun 2020, 10:08 am

This is why not having a bill of guaranteed rights for all is a bad idea. Unwritten law is just insanity.
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Re: An interesting read of a current court case.

Post by rc42 » 02 Jun 2020, 11:22 am

I would expect that anything based on an 'unwritten' law would have to establish that it was a well established and reasonable belief or expectation that there was a written law to the same effect.

I can't think of any examples offhand though.
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Re: An interesting read of a current court case.

Post by AussieCapitalist » 02 Jun 2020, 11:31 am

Can case law can be classed as unwritten law?
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