Gun Safe in NSW and Dynabolts to concrete floor vs wall

Questions about New South Wales gun and ammunition laws. NSW Firearms Act 1996.

Gun Safe in NSW and Dynabolts to concrete floor vs wall

Post by DigaumSpider » 23 Jul 2020, 3:54 pm

Hi all.

I'm new to the sport and in line with the regulations I purchased a proper safe and started the process of trying to install it properly.
The thing is: The only place I can put the safe on is my garage and my (super hard) concrete floor doesn't quite align so well with the wall, so the safe, when put against the wall, leaves a gap of about 1cm at the top and 1mm at the very bottom (gap only against the wall, mind you).

The bottom, hard concrete, is where I'm drilling to install the 12x90mm dynabolts that came with the safe right now, but my question is: Do I also need to install dynabolts against the wall, even if my 4 bolts at the bottom are firmly secured?
If it's mandatory, how do I get around the fact that my floor and wall are not aligned and I'll never get the safe fully flush against both at the same time? Can I install some form of gap filler to hide that and would that be acceptable by the authorities?

I would very much like to NOT have to drill into the wall as this is a rental property and I've got permissions to drill the concrete floor only, but if it's mandatory, then I'll have to find a way to get a new approval.

For reference, here's the official document I'm following:

https://www.police.nsw.gov.au/online_se ... fe_storage

and

https://www.police.nsw.gov.au/__data/as ... _Sheet.pdf

Thank you all very much for the help on this matter. It is highly appreciated.
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Re: Gun Safe in NSW and Dynabolts to concrete floor vs wall

Post by moudzj » 23 Jul 2020, 4:23 pm

DigaumSpider wrote:Hi all.

I'm new to the sport and in line with the regulations I purchased a proper safe and started the process of trying to install it properly.
The thing is: The only place I can put the safe on is my garage and my (super hard) concrete floor doesn't quite align so well with the wall, so the safe, when put against the wall, leaves a gap of about 1cm at the top and 1mm at the very bottom (gap only against the wall, mind you).

The bottom, hard concrete, is where I'm drilling to install the 12x90mm dynabolts that came with the safe right now, but my question is: Do I also need to install dynabolts against the wall, even if my 4 bolts at the bottom are firmly secured?
If it's mandatory, how do I get around the fact that my floor and wall are not aligned and I'll never get the safe fully flush against both at the same time? Can I install some form of gap filler to hide that and would that be acceptable by the authorities?

I would very much like to NOT have to drill into the wall as this is a rental property and I've got permissions to drill the concrete floor only, but if it's mandatory, then I'll have to find a way to get a new approval.

For reference, here's the official document I'm following:

https://www.police.nsw.gov.au/online_se ... fe_storage

and

https://www.police.nsw.gov.au/__data/as ... _Sheet.pdf

Thank you all very much for the help on this matter. It is highly appreciated.



Dont need to drill into wall as per regulations, just needs to be nice and tight. Try the floor only first, and if, it is too shaky, then youd have to stick one or two bolts in the wall in case it ever gets inspected and deemed inadequate. Re the gap, just need to have a window packer or similiar near the bolt to tighten it up to counteract the gap (measure the gap, pack, then bolt or screw).

Note that since you will be removing (I assume), be sure to drill deeper than the bolt by about 15-20mm so you can tap it in, so the bolt shaft doesnt remain protruding. Alternatively, you can use Ankascrews, which are much easier to remove and much simpler to install.
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Re: Gun Safe in NSW and Dynabolts to concrete floor vs wall

Post by DigaumSpider » 23 Jul 2020, 4:42 pm

moudzj wrote:
DigaumSpider wrote:Hi all.

I'm new to the sport and in line with the regulations I purchased a proper safe and started the process of trying to install it properly.
The thing is: The only place I can put the safe on is my garage and my (super hard) concrete floor doesn't quite align so well with the wall, so the safe, when put against the wall, leaves a gap of about 1cm at the top and 1mm at the very bottom (gap only against the wall, mind you).

The bottom, hard concrete, is where I'm drilling to install the 12x90mm dynabolts that came with the safe right now, but my question is: Do I also need to install dynabolts against the wall, even if my 4 bolts at the bottom are firmly secured?
If it's mandatory, how do I get around the fact that my floor and wall are not aligned and I'll never get the safe fully flush against both at the same time? Can I install some form of gap filler to hide that and would that be acceptable by the authorities?

I would very much like to NOT have to drill into the wall as this is a rental property and I've got permissions to drill the concrete floor only, but if it's mandatory, then I'll have to find a way to get a new approval.

For reference, here's the official document I'm following:

https://www.police.nsw.gov.au/online_se ... fe_storage

and

https://www.police.nsw.gov.au/__data/as ... _Sheet.pdf

Thank you all very much for the help on this matter. It is highly appreciated.



Dont need to drill into wall as per regulations, just needs to be nice and tight. Try the floor only first, and if, it is too shaky, then youd have to stick one or two bolts in the wall in case it ever gets inspected and deemed inadequate. Re the gap, just need to have a window packer or similiar near the bolt to tighten it up to counteract the gap (measure the gap, pack, then bolt or screw).

Note that since you will be removing (I assume), be sure to drill deeper than the bolt by about 15-20mm so you can tap it in, so the bolt shaft doesnt remain protruding. Alternatively, you can use Ankascrews, which are much easier to remove and much simpler to install.


Thank you so much, that is most helpful! I had never heard of Ankascrews before, so I've done some digging into it (no pun intended) and it seems like it goes in straight into the concrete and stays put.

I'll see if I can get some of those at Bunnings and instead of installing the Dynas I'll get the Ankascrews down into the concrete instead.
If I understood correctly, the coppers wouldn't find an issue with the fact that the safe is only attached to the floor and that there's a gap behind it that's unbolted, so my main focus will be in getting the floor attachment done right.

If you have any ideas or suggestions, please feel free to add (at the moment, I'm done drilling about 4-5cm in and for some reason my drill batteries are being killed and the drill won't go any deeper, so I'm hoping that there's no steel plate or something along those lines in there as I paid someone to come detect for electrical wires and water pipe and there was nothing in the area I'm supposed to be drilling in.

Thanks again!
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Re: Gun Safe in NSW and Dynabolts to concrete floor vs wall

Post by milnops » 23 Jul 2020, 6:12 pm

Personally I wouldn’t want to see a gap that a jimmy bar could get in..
I’d put fixings in the base and wall and patch afterwards to placate the landlord.
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Re: Gun Safe in NSW and Dynabolts to concrete floor vs wall

Post by moudzj » 23 Jul 2020, 7:12 pm

milnops wrote:Personally I wouldn’t want to see a gap that a jimmy bar could get in..
I’d put fixings in the base and wall and patch afterwards to placate the landlord.



Fortunately, what you personally dont like seeing doesnt matter :p Even if he fixed through the safe and wall, you could still get a bar in, and wall fixings would give first. Also, regulations do not require it. Should definitely be tight enough just through the floor, given the floor is nice and flat and anchors are nice and snug.

OP;

If you have any ideas or suggestions, please feel free to add (at the moment, I'm done drilling about 4-5cm in and for some reason my drill batteries are being killed and the drill won't go any deeper, so I'm hoping that there's no steel plate or something along those lines in there as I paid someone to come detect for electrical wires and water pipe and there was nothing in the area I'm supposed to be drilling in.


Just a sub-par drill you are probably using, keep going at it. Even if you are hitting reo, masonry bit will chew through it, so keep going. Make sure your drill is on the hammer-drill function (if it has it).

You might have an issue tightening the Ankascrews with a crappy impact driver, and ive never tried tightening them with a ratchet, thus, dynas might be your best bet when considering your tools.

OP; Where are you located? If you are close-by I could help you out with it.
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Re: Gun Safe in NSW and Dynabolts to concrete floor vs wall

Post by Oldbloke » 23 Jul 2020, 8:24 pm

Just a bit of packing under the front of the safe (anything will do) will help to reduce the gap at the top/back of the safe near the wall.
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Re: Gun Safe in NSW and Dynabolts to concrete floor vs wall

Post by DigaumSpider » 23 Jul 2020, 8:57 pm

moudzj wrote:
milnops wrote:Personally I wouldn’t want to see a gap that a jimmy bar could get in..
I’d put fixings in the base and wall and patch afterwards to placate the landlord.



Fortunately, what you personally dont like seeing doesnt matter :p Even if he fixed through the safe and wall, you could still get a bar in, and wall fixings would give first. Also, regulations do not require it. Should definitely be tight enough just through the floor, given the floor is nice and flat and anchors are nice and snug.

OP;

If you have any ideas or suggestions, please feel free to add (at the moment, I'm done drilling about 4-5cm in and for some reason my drill batteries are being killed and the drill won't go any deeper, so I'm hoping that there's no steel plate or something along those lines in there as I paid someone to come detect for electrical wires and water pipe and there was nothing in the area I'm supposed to be drilling in.


Just a sub-par drill you are probably using, keep going at it. Even if you are hitting reo, masonry bit will chew through it, so keep going. Make sure your drill is on the hammer-drill function (if it has it).

You might have an issue tightening the Ankascrews with a crappy impact driver, and ive never tried tightening them with a ratchet, thus, dynas might be your best bet when considering your tools.

OP; Where are you located? If you are close-by I could help you out with it.


Thanks so much mate for the reply.

I'm in Castle Hill.
I do have a hammer drill which I've been using (DeWalt brushless, which is usually pretty good, but I guess I'm just asking too much of it now with the super hard concrete in this garage).
I also have a DeWalt proper impact driver which has never let me down, so I'm confident in at least trying the Ankascrews as I like the idea of being able to remove them and simply fill in the hole later when I have to leave the residence (although I love it in here, you never know when the situation may change and the owner may want to sell).

Worst comes to worse, I may even go to Bunnings and drop 130 bucks on a Ryobi proper Rotary hammer (I never go cheap on tools, but in this case I'll probably ever use it once so I won't invest in a better brand) plus an extra possibly 40-60 bucks on another drill bit to fit that SDS slot as my current drill bit (which I paid 30-50 bucks iirc) wouldn't fit.

The thing is: I finally have received my PTA this week, after a LOOOONNNGG wait to be able to hold my very first rifle in my hands for the first time and actually "own it" and I want to get this sorted tomorrow at most, so I can get the rifle sorted on Saturday.

I'm working from home with the pandemic situation, so I have a few slots in between meetings and other duties and that's what I've used today to fight the battle with the concrete slab.

Thanks!
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Re: Gun Safe in NSW and Dynabolts to concrete floor vs wall

Post by BadShot » 24 Jul 2020, 9:44 am

DigaumSpider wrote: Worst comes to worse, I may even go to Bunnings and drop 130 bucks on a Ryobi proper Rotary hammer (I never go cheap on tools, but in this case I'll probably ever use it once so I won't invest in a better brand) plus an extra possibly 40-60 bucks on another drill bit to fit that SDS slot as my current drill bit (which I paid 30-50 bucks iirc) wouldn't fit.


I nearly destroyed my Makita Electric Hammer drill trying to drill the holes, I did the same and bought a Ryobi rotary and it chewed through it around 5 secs per hole. I'm in St Ives if you want to borrow it with the bit.
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Re: Gun Safe in NSW and Dynabolts to concrete floor vs wall

Post by DigaumSpider » 24 Jul 2020, 11:11 am

BadShot wrote:
DigaumSpider wrote: Worst comes to worse, I may even go to Bunnings and drop 130 bucks on a Ryobi proper Rotary hammer (I never go cheap on tools, but in this case I'll probably ever use it once so I won't invest in a better brand) plus an extra possibly 40-60 bucks on another drill bit to fit that SDS slot as my current drill bit (which I paid 30-50 bucks iirc) wouldn't fit.


I nearly destroyed my Makita Electric Hammer drill trying to drill the holes, I did the same and bought a Ryobi rotary and it chewed through it around 5 secs per hole. I'm in St Ives if you want to borrow it with the bit.


Thank you so much for the offer, mate.
Before you posted this, I went to Bunnings at 8 and did exactly the same.
The thing chewed through the concrete in 5 seconds, it was a joke.

I will now try to attach the Akascrew bolts as I started the process, but had to stop to get back to do some work in between.

Thanks again!
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Re: Gun Safe in NSW and Dynabolts to concrete floor vs wall

Post by TassieTiger » 24 Jul 2020, 2:23 pm

Can’t you affix a short piece of Decking or 2x1 into the studs in the wall With some coach screws - then screw the safe into that to fix the gapping issue? Or maybe I’ve read the problem wrong.
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Re: Gun Safe in NSW and Dynabolts to concrete floor vs wall

Post by DigaumSpider » 24 Jul 2020, 11:06 pm

TassieTiger wrote:Can’t you affix a short piece of Decking or 2x1 into the studs in the wall With some coach screws - then screw the safe into that to fix the gapping issue? Or maybe I’ve read the problem wrong.

The gap is about 1cm at the top of the safe and 1 or 2 mm at the very bottom.

I've securely attached 3 of the 4 screws but the 4th one is stuck halfway and I don't have enough leverage with the ratchet arm to push it further (man, those Ankascrews are hard to get in!), so I'll see if I can find a longer arm extension at Bunnings tomorrow and finalize that very last screw and then go get my Tikka!

To everyone who helped with the instructions and tips, I really appreciate your help and patience and wish you all a great weekend ahead!

Thanks :drinks:
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Re: Gun Safe in NSW and Dynabolts to concrete floor vs wall

Post by targetshooter900 » 25 Jul 2020, 10:42 am

DigaumSpider wrote:
TassieTiger wrote:Can’t you affix a short piece of Decking or 2x1 into the studs in the wall With some coach screws - then screw the safe into that to fix the gapping issue? Or maybe I’ve read the problem wrong.

The gap is about 1cm at the top of the safe and 1 or 2 mm at the very bottom.

I've securely attached 3 of the 4 screws but the 4th one is stuck halfway and I don't have enough leverage with the ratchet arm to push it further (man, those Ankascrews are hard to get in!), so I'll see if I can find a longer arm extension at Bunnings tomorrow and finalize that very last screw and then go get my Tikka!

To everyone who helped with the instructions and tips, I really appreciate your help and patience and wish you all a great weekend ahead!

Thanks :drinks:


Have you got an impact driver? A reasonable quality one should be able to send it in, otherwise you can consider backing it out if you can and first vacuuming the hole and trying again as dust often falls in the hole and obstructs the fixing going all the way, if that doesn't fix it you can try ream the hole abit with the drillbit. If that doesn't work can go up 0.5mm in drill bit size. I'd say it's probably full of dust.
I install Dynas and concrete fixings everyday and making sure it's not full of dust is extremely important lol. Can be costly otherwise getting fixings stuck.

As others have said, I'm also near you if you want to borrow impact driver or need a hand. Happy to help.
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Re: Gun Safe in NSW and Dynabolts to concrete floor vs wall

Post by DigaumSpider » 26 Jul 2020, 12:10 am

targetshooter900 wrote:
DigaumSpider wrote:
TassieTiger wrote:Can’t you affix a short piece of Decking or 2x1 into the studs in the wall With some coach screws - then screw the safe into that to fix the gapping issue? Or maybe I’ve read the problem wrong.

The gap is about 1cm at the top of the safe and 1 or 2 mm at the very bottom.

I've securely attached 3 of the 4 screws but the 4th one is stuck halfway and I don't have enough leverage with the ratchet arm to push it further (man, those Ankascrews are hard to get in!), so I'll see if I can find a longer arm extension at Bunnings tomorrow and finalize that very last screw and then go get my Tikka!

To everyone who helped with the instructions and tips, I really appreciate your help and patience and wish you all a great weekend ahead!

Thanks :drinks:


Have you got an impact driver? A reasonable quality one should be able to send it in, otherwise you can consider backing it out if you can and first vacuuming the hole and trying again as dust often falls in the hole and obstructs the fixing going all the way, if that doesn't fix it you can try ream the hole abit with the drillbit. If that doesn't work can go up 0.5mm in drill bit size. I'd say it's probably full of dust.
I install Dynas and concrete fixings everyday and making sure it's not full of dust is extremely important lol. Can be costly otherwise getting fixings stuck.

As others have said, I'm also near you if you want to borrow impact driver or need a hand. Happy to help.


Sorry it took so long to reply. It was a crazy busy day!
I do have an impact driver (a DeWalt brushless) but it wasn't strong enough to drive the Ankascrew down that crazy concrete. There was certainly something wrong with this as all videos I've seen on the internet showed these concrete screws going in without so much effort (including videos that have been made by regular folks, not marketing bullcrap).
I made sure to clean up the hole properly, following the instructions from the ankascrew videos, and even bought their hole pump along with the brush and used both very successfully to clean up dust, but the darned thing just wasn't going down. I also made sure to go down an extra 5cm so the screw certainly had no resistance from the bottom.

I thought about driving the drill bit down and up several times and widen the hole a bit, but on a second thought decided not to, as once the hole is too wide, you can't go back. I also thought about getting a .5mm bigger drill bit, but Bunnings only had 12mm (the one I used) or the next jump was to 14mm if I recall correctly. It'll be good to know where you buy your SDS drills as if I need to step up half a mil in the future, I know where to go :D

I went to Bunnings and bought a steel pipe, inserted the socket ratchet handle in the pipe and used it as leverage to finish the bolt going down about a full turn, then back up 1 or 2 turns (as instructed by Ankascrews) and then down again.
It was a tedious process, but with that amount of leverage I was able to drive it down finally!

I collected my Tikka successfully today and will go shooting for the first time this week.
When the Gun shop person installed the Scope for me, he taught me how to properly position my head and body so that my face is near the scope (but not too much) but I reckon I'll need some serious adjusting to learn the new ropes.

I've cleaned the rifle when I got home (to learn how to do it, I've watched Ozzie Reviews videos) and there was some blue and black residue in the barrel, indicating that the rifle wasn't cleaned after being shot at the factory.

Any recommendations of a "open field" range (such as Silverdale) that would have some nice fellows with the patience to give me the basics and help me position properly behind the gun and scope and other useful tips for a beginner that you can't usually find on the internet?

Thanks again!
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Re: Gun Safe in NSW and Dynabolts to concrete floor vs wall

Post by targetshooter900 » 26 Jul 2020, 12:33 am

Nice mate, glad you got it sorted!
Congrats on picking up your rifle too. Silverdale is good, I've been there a few times. Usually go to St Mary's often too but you're limited to 50m which is okay, but if you want to shoot longer then Silverdale is probably the go. Hornsby has lots of restrictions about what you can shoot and when, you can only shoot certain days of the week and then on top of that one day is rimfire and one day is centrefire. Too many noise complaints even though it's been there since 1830 or something lol.
and yeah, all rifles aren't cleaned after firing the factory test shot(s). That's standard and nothing to worry about.
Also there's a great gun shop in Castle Hill too, worth checking out. They have good prices on ammo.
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Re: Gun Safe in NSW and Dynabolts to concrete floor vs wall

Post by DigaumSpider » 26 Jul 2020, 9:11 am

Could you let me know the name of the store? I'll add to my list and will check often.
Currently my go to store is Horsley Park and for some cleaning and other accessories, St Marys Indoor Shooting Centre is excellently priced.
I have found that ammo for the 243 was about 20% cheaper in Horsley than St Marys, but about everything else was cheaper at St Marys, provided that they actually sell it (not a lot of variety).

Thanks!
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Re: Gun Safe in NSW and Dynabolts to concrete floor vs wall

Post by TassieTiger » 26 Jul 2020, 5:26 pm

Blue? Sounds like copper...doubt it would be at this early stage...
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Re: Gun Safe in NSW and Dynabolts to concrete floor vs wall

Post by DigaumSpider » 26 Jul 2020, 5:35 pm

TassieTiger wrote:Blue? Sounds like copper...doubt it would be at this early stage...

I kid you not. I used a Hoppes foaming cleaning product, waited 10-15 mins, then pushed the brush once, unscrewed the brush, gave a light tap on a piece of paper towel to remove excess of the liquid and it came out blue.
I pushed it again, same thing, then patched once, oiled with G96, patched several times until it was clean, then oiled again and patched one last time.

Thanks.
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Re: Gun Safe in NSW and Dynabolts to concrete floor vs wall

Post by pomemax » 26 Jul 2020, 5:38 pm

https://www.badlands.com.au/ is at castle hill DigaumSpider are you a member of SSAA dont forget at st Mary you get a discount .
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Re: Gun Safe in NSW and Dynabolts to concrete floor vs wall

Post by DigaumSpider » 26 Jul 2020, 6:19 pm

pomemax wrote:https://www.badlands.com.au/ is at castle hill DigaumSpider are you a member of SSAA dont forget at st Mary you get a discount .

Thanks!
Yes, I am indeed a member of SSAA, but even after the 10% discount, Horsley still beats them.
I also checked Badlands and, unless there's a discount I'm not aware of, they're more expensive than the 100gr I purchased at Horsley this weekend.

Here's what I bought:

FEDERAL POWER-SHOK 243WIN 100GR SP 20PKT - $34.00
and
WINCHESTER SUPER X 243WIN 100GR PSP 20PKT - $36.00

On Badlands, I can only see Federal in 80gr for this calibre and it's $36.

The reason I went with 100GR is to learn the falloff for this bullet, as recommended, due to the fact that they're the recommended grains to get humane kills when hunting, apparently.

Happy to get more recommendations and tips as, like I said, I'm just starting in the sport, so thank you very much for the help so far.

Thanks.
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Re: Gun Safe in NSW and Dynabolts to concrete floor vs wall

Post by pomemax » 28 Jul 2020, 1:23 am

I tent to buy Ammo from HPGS as well .
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Re: Gun Safe in NSW and Dynabolts to concrete floor vs wall

Post by DigaumSpider » 28 Jul 2020, 5:57 pm

pomemax wrote:I tent to buy Ammo from HPGS as well .

I'm just starting and welcome all tips, but so far, I've been to a few stores and the people I dealt with in HPGS were the most helpful, while at the same time stocking a great variety of firearms, ammo and other items.

I also supported St. Marys, by buying almost 500 bucks worth of cleaning equipment (kits, solvents, etc) but there were a few items that I really wanted and they didn't have in stock (such as the large G96 can, for example).

Whenever I can, I try to support local stores, even if it costs me more - as long as it's not double the price or something crazy like that - but for certain items, it's becoming nearly impossible to find local stock, sadly :(

Thanks!
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