Liberal Democratic party firearm policy

[Baronvonrort]

I am neither left or right with politics i am centrist,i am not rusted onto any party, i vote for the party that deals with the issues that concern me.

I will probably go with the LDP in the next elections at #1,the Shooters fishers party at #2 and the Greens dead last.

Here is the LDP firearm policy, they have some other policies that are pretty good IMO.

http://www.ldp.org.au/index.php/policies/1152-firearms

[Norton]

Shooting & Fishing first for me always.

Greens last.

Shooter friendly parties in the middle in sensible order.

[Lorgar]

I'm about the same Norton.

I don't really follow politics day to day... Just cram a session of finding out what everyone's about a week or two before elections and vote accordingly.

[Ken]

And they got all the liberal votes from people who couldn't be bothered reading the ballet properly.

Noice

[Gregg]

Don't start that s**t again.

They got the votes fair and square

If people at the polls can't read the ballot that's their problem. Not the parties which support us

[Eduardo]

I must admit to being somewhat confused. I am no expert on political science, nor am I versed in how political parties with like names share platforms\ideologies internationally.

But the liberal democrats here in the United States would for the most part love to erase guns from our collective vocabulary.

There are small pockets of LD's that support gun rights, but they are the extreme minority.

Am I reading this correctly that liberal democrats are the champions of gun rights in AU? Actually, the better way to ask this is what party is considered to be the champion of gun rights in AU?

[Baronvonrort]

Don't start that s**t again.

They got the votes fair and square

If people at the polls can't read the ballot that's their problem. Not the parties which support us

The LDP have been around since 2001, they originated in the ACT.

They have some good policies and some i dont agree with, there is no perfect political party.

[Baronvonrort]

Am I reading this correctly that liberal democrats are the champions of gun rights in AU? Actually, the better way to ask this is what party is considered to be the champion of gun rights in AU?

The LDP name might be the same that is as far as it goes.

I would say the Liberal democrats have the best firearm policy for shooters in Australia.
The shooters and fishers party along with Katter Australia party are pretty good for gun policy.
The greens want to outlaw all guns so they suck big time for law abiding firearm owners.

I accuse the gun grabbers of promoting animal cruelty with their inhumane policies that favour poisoning feral animals with 1080 and trapping.

Poisoning with 1080 takes up to 4 days to kill animals,they die a slow horrible death and this poison does not discriminate in which species it kills,trapping does not discriminate in what it kills.

The Greens get upset when I point out their policies encourage animal cruelty and are inhumane.

We should make the current use of 1080 a huge issue until it is banned, every vet will say shooting is far more humane in dealing with feral pests. https://www.google.com.au/#q=1080+baiting+nsw

[Aster]

Eduardo,

In Australia we basically have two large parties and a number of small ones. "Liberal" and "Labor" are our large parties - our politics are different of course but they're loosely the equivalent of you "Republican" and "Democratic" party.

There was a bit of a fuss over a recent election here which included the "Liberal" party, and the "Liberal Democratic" party (who are smaller).

In short, the Liberal Democratic party was placed above the Liberal party on the ballot. Looking at the results of the election some argued that the Liberal Democratic party received more votes than expected while the Liberal party received less than expected.

It was argued that this was due to "voters being confused" and mistakenly voting for the Liberal Democratic party when they meant to vote for the Liberal party.

It was folks from the Liberal party making this noise of course. You can bet if the ballot was in the other order they wouldn't be saying they accidentally got votes for the Liberal Democratic party and wanting to give away any of their power/influence. Anyway...

Gun politics is a totally different creature to the US here in Aus. There are pro and anti forces at work but it's nothing like the volume you guys have in the states. Due to the cultural and legal differences we have far less of everything gun related here... less owners, less total firearms, less gun-crime and so on. It doesn't get anywhere near as much as air-time as in the states and isn't such a "hot issue" on the political arena as other subjects.

We don't have half the people "for" and half the people "against" like you guys do (sort of). Neither of our major parties are "champions" for shooters rights, or even particularly friendly for that matter. There are a range of views across all the parties and unfortunately most of them are closer to the "against" side of the scales than the "for" side.

It's a different argument here too. Guns are a "privilege" here, not a right. We never had a second amendment or history to fall back on as part of the gun debate and so on. The way a lot of it works here it "justifying the need" to have something, not "defending the right" to have it. Australian shooters are working to get back privileges which were lost or that they never had to begin with, not defending existing ones, which is a tougher battle.

The Shooters and Fishers Party is one, as is the Liberal Democratic party, but both of those are smaller players.

[Releb]

For future reference Eduardo, the "Greens" are the shooters biggest opponent here if you hear them brought up as well.

Just FYI.

[Eduardo]

Thanks to Aster, Baronvonrort and Releb for taking the time to answer my questions.

[Seconds]

We don't have half the people "for" and half the people "against" like you guys do (sort of). Neither of our major parties are "champions" for shooters rights, or even particularly friendly for that matter. There are a range of views across all the parties and unfortunately most of them are closer to the "against" side of the scales than the "for" side.

That's the sad truth of it.

Other than the Shooters and Fishers Party we basically have to choose between parties who don't much like guns, or reeeeally don't like guns.

Good options...

[headspace]

On the Federal scene it will be interesting to see how the Palmer Party goes. I'm not in favour of single issue parties but it seems the Liberal Democrats do have some interesting policies. The greens by comparison are very much a single issue party. There have been quite a few attempts to "keep the bastards honest" but they have largely fallen by the wayside. Remember the Australian Democrats, and the DLP. Pretty much dead in the water. I like the LD position on firearm ownership, but there's a lot of touchy feelies out there who will scream about that.

[1290]

Eduardo,

In Australia we basically have two large parties and a number of small ones. "Liberal" and "Labour" are our large parties - our politics are different of course but they're loosely the equivalent of you "Republican" and "Democratic" party.

There was a bit of a fuss over a recent election here which included the "Liberal" party, and the "Liberal Democratic" party (who are smaller).

In short, the Liberal Democratic party was placed above the Liberal party on the ballot. Looking at the results of the election some argued that the Liberal Democratic party received more votes than expected while the Liberal party received less than expected.

It was argued that this was due to "voters being confused" and mistakenly voting for the Liberal Democratic party when they meant to vote for the Liberal party.

It was folks from the Liberal party making this noise of course. You can bet if the ballot was in the other order they wouldn't be saying they accidentally got votes for the Liberal Democratic party and wanting to give away any of their power/influence. Anyway...

Gun politics is a totally different creature to the US here in Aus. There are pro and anti forces at work but it's nothing like the volume you guys have in the states. Due to the cultural and legal differences we have far less of everything gun related here... less owners, less total firearms, less gun-crime and so on. It doesn't get anywhere near as much as air-time as in the states and isn't such a "hot issue" on the political arena as other subjects.

We don't have half the people "for" and half the people "against" like you guys do (sort of). Neither of our major parties are "champions" for shooters rights, or even particularly friendly for that matter. There are a range of views across all the parties and unfortunately most of them are closer to the "against" side of the scales than the "for" side.

It's a different argument here too. Guns are a "privilege" here, not a right. We never had a second amendment or history to fall back on as part of the gun debate and so on. The way a lot of it works here it "justifying the need" to have something, not "defending the right" to have it. Australian shooters are working to get back privileges which were lost or that they never had to begin with, not defending existing ones, which is a tougher battle.

The Shooters and Fishers Party is one, as is the Liberal Democratic party, but both of those are smaller players.

Our leftist/Socialist party are known as the Labor Party (Not Labour) and it more than just semantics.... the use of the American a opposed to English spelling was a nose snubbing to the UK.... the Australian Greens are effectively the militant wing of our socialist Labor party, that is more than demonstrated by every action in Parliament where the Greens Support Labor and Vice versa to oppose the Liberal party...

The Greens are as close to commies as you get, example of a certain Senator that spent 6 months back in the 70's in Moscow getting her training/indoctrination.... ASIO even have a 700 or more page dossier on her... for that reason.

The greens and their environmentalist movement are more about terraforming nations into 'Utopian communist societies' with most of the lands returned to the wild for the free passage of animals (google 'wildlands project' and 'wildlands network') of course with open borders (repeatedly they bleat to open the borders to let the refugeeeees iiiiiinnnnn.... Internationalism is what they and the socialists(Labor) call for - they is the absolute opposite of what we need for a safe and secure future (nationalism) however they have in concert dirtied the word and morphed the concept of nationalism to represent Nazism, Fascism, antisemitism and super-capitalism....

If the Lib-dems received more votes as a result of voters mistakes.... good. Read the effin ballot paper next time and dont be in such a rush to get back to your football, VB and pokies...take an interest in what is occurring around you..

Aster, I know you mentioned the cultural differences, but please never, in the same sentence refer to less guns and less gun crime - I know I'm probably preaching to the converted, even those undergoing their 'conversion'... but crime and gun crime in particular are absolutely 100% cultural matters and reflect a measure of the amorality of society.

The gun grabbers frequently associate high rates of crime and homicide with the high rates and access to firearms but they never, NEVER make the comparison discuss or even mention the many nations with high ownership rates and very low crime and homicide whether firearm related or not... Example Serbia, civilian firearms ownership rate is reported at 58 arms pers 100 population, most recent firearm homicide rate is 0.5 deaths per 100,000, for a people who were at war only a few years ago....Iceland, home to 90,000+ firearms for their small 300k population did not report a firearm homicide, NOT a single firearm homicide from 2003 to 2009 (this is the only data available to the UNODC and of course I assume this is correct!!) while there were a total of 9 non-gun homicides during the same period. Funny that this is never reported... Australians firearm ownership is reported at 15+ arms per 100,000 which is half the Iceland rate and we've had about 220 or so firearm murders... over the same period.... The USA during the same 2003 to 2009 period suffered 77,750 firearm homicides....its not the firearms, its the culture, its the pop culture and the decline in society, drugs, gangs, crime, hollywood.

The Lib-dems have some sensible policy on firearms - it is however irrelevant as there is zero prospect of enacting any single change their policy would represent. No government would agree to any component of the LDem policy for the sake of getting a vote through....they would use any opportunity to knock back any of the changes and milk it for all its worth....

[Monty]

Aster, I know you mentioned the cultural differences, but please never, in the same sentence refer to less guns and less gun crime - I know I'm probably preaching to the converted, even those undergoing their 'conversion'... but crime and gun crime in particular are absolutely 100% cultural matters and reflect a measure of the amorality of society.

I understand your point, however you're reading too deeply into my comment.

My original comment wasn't meant in any way to raise the discussion of gun ownership in relation (or lack there of) to crime, or imply anything either way on the subject.

My point was that guns, as a topic in it's entirety, the good aspects and potential concerns combined, get less time in the political spotlight here and are lower down the to-do list of your average Australian politician.

We have "less" of it compared to America. This was the point I wished to convey to Eduardo.

If you want a in-depth, detailed discussion of Australian politics, guns laws and all it's intricacies and aspects I'm going to need more than a single 400 word reply on the subject giving the ultra basics of Australian gun politics to an interested American

[Baronvonrort]

The gun grabbers frequently associate high rates of crime and homicide with the high rates and access to firearms but they never, NEVER make the comparison discuss or even mention the many nations with high ownership rates and very low crime and homicide whether firearm related or not

The USA during the same 2003 to 2009 period suffered 77,750 firearm homicides....its not the firearms, its the culture, its the pop culture and the decline in society, drugs, gangs, crime,

Australia has a similar homicide rate to New Zealand,apart from dirty deeds done with sheep the Kiwis are culturally similar to Aussies.
The Kiwis have reasonable firearm laws,they allow silencers which even the Americans restrict, we have oppressive firearm laws.

The homicide rate in the USA is pushed up by what they call gangbangers who are involved with drugs,crime,gangs etc, it is not racist to mention facts it is only racism when you discriminate because of race or claim race has a part in it, as i have pointed out drugs,crime and gang behaviour drives up their homicide rates,they have strict gun laws in some places like Chicago yet they have lots of gang crime.

Page 11,US Dept of justice

Blacks were disproportionately represented among homicide victims and offenders.

-In 2008,the offending rate for blacks (24.7 offenders per 100K) was 7 times higher than the rate for whites (3.4 offenders per 100K)
-The offending rate for blacks showed a similar pattern to the victimization rate,peaking in the early 1990's at a high of 51.1 offenders per 100K in 1991
-after 1991,the offending rate for blacks declined until it reached 24 per 100K in 2004,The rate has since fluctuated,increasing to 28.4 offenders per 100K in 2006 before falling to 24.7 offenders per 100K in 2008
http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf

The homicide rate in the USA is higher because of gang crimes,In Australia the drive by shootings are done by criminal gangs and not by LAFO.

[pajamatime]

meh I think this NFA submission pretty much sums up the current climate for us Aussies lol
http://www.firearmscouncil.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Collective-NFA-submission.pdf

Dr Samara McPhedran talks at Towards Fairer Gun Laws Forum
https://youtu.be/0dOEON-H9BQ

Canadian Member Of Parliament, Garry Breitkreutz talks at Towards Fairer Gun Laws Forum
https://youtu.be/xbBezsr2PEI

That and Australian shooting community is somewhat plagued with a few to many pessimists who slow progress down significantly and talk trash all the time.
I personally believe if our community can get more women and younger generations in we will have a more powerful community behind our grassroots efforts. Sorry but its true...the old farts need to stop being so old =( and the sad miserable pessimists need to either 1. change their tune or 2. fk off completely =) (needs to be said)

[Heckler303]

The NFA submission they put in sounds good..

But they didn't really list about actual firearms, which is a bit disappointing. Sure the rest is great and also a lot fairer for us in general, but no mention of mag capacity, semi automatics or removing those BS pistol restrictions? Gee.

[pajamatime]

The NFA submission they put in sounds good..

But they didn't really list about actual firearms, which is a bit disappointing. Sure the rest is great and also a lot fairer for us in general, but no mention of mag capacity, semi automatics or removing those BS pistol restrictions? Gee.

I actually did think about similar things...I think at this point in time they are aiming at pulling down barriers.

[Chronos]

Can anyone explain why LDP gave their preferences to extreme animal libers and environmentalists that support PETA like the Animal Justice Party?

Seems strange to support LDP party the expense of the SFP

Chronos

[Heckler303]

Can anyone explain why LDP gave their preferences to extreme animal libers and environmentalists that support PETA like the Animal Justice Party?

Seems strange to support LDP party the expense of the SFP

Chronos

Even though David himself is a hunter and has referenced his hunting club a few times?

That doesnt make any sense.

[Heckler303]

Not sure, but I know that the animal justice party has stated that they are not anti firearms, they're definitely not pro hunting though.
LDP aren't perfect but then no party is, but they seem to be alot more vocal in our defence than anyone else including SFP

True about AJP not being anti firearm, they are surprisingly ok with shooters. Until they bag something in the paddick

True about LDP being vocal and honestly better than the rest of the parties. SFP to me have always been more or less just a bunch of %^&# (tasmanian SFP), but David and his little gang would be someone I'd vote for.

When it comes to choosing lesser evils, you'll still get evil, but just less evil than others.

[pajamatime]

SFP to me have always been more or less just a bunch of %^&#

lmao, so I'm not the only one that thinks the SFP has a feral problem

[headspace]

There's a spreading element within the Nationals who are coming our way big time. I believe that as the two major parties become harder to tell apart, a jump to the right as a backlash is on the way.

[RDobber]

When it comes to choosing lesser evils, you'll still get evil, but just less evil than others.

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[Heckler303]

When it comes to choosing lesser evils, you'll still get evil, but just less evil than others.

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Politics in a nutshell

[SendIt]

That's not far from the truth.

The job title of most politicians these days could accurately be called "professional opposition", god forbid any of them got into power as most couldn't govern their way out of a paper bag.

And on the voters side people vote against who they hate the most, not for someone they like as there isn't an inspiring choice for a lot of voters.