Safe storage suggestions

[Rider888]

I have a small spike H Cat safe that I travel with around the country and use as storage. However I note that the safe only has 2 mounting holes at the bottom so when I am in NSW, how do I go about meeting the excessive requirement of 4x90mm bolts when the bottom of the safe only has two holes?
Thanks

[bladeracer]

I have a small spike H Cat safe that I travel with around the country and use as storage. However I note that the safe only has 2 mounting holes at the bottom so when I am in NSW, how do I go about meeting the excessive requirement of 4x90mm bolts when the bottom of the safe only has two holes?
Thanks

Drill two more holes?
My pistol safe had four bolt holes in the bottom, and two in the end, so it could be bolted into a wall corner, making it extremely difficult to lever out.

[Rider888]

Thanks blade racer. So they don’t have to be equally space? If so I’ll just drill two random holes in the bottom. Just didn’t want to assume I could do it as I didn’t want to compromise the integrity of the strength of the safe
Mine only has 2 holes on the bottom and 2 on the back.it’s a Spika digital SP. It’s the smallest in the range I think

[Devilcv8]

I have the same safe and just drilled 2 extra holes. I may need to setup a camera to record the safe inspection as it should be hilarious watching a fully equipped cop access the safe.

[Rider888]

I have the same safe and just drilled 2 extra holes. I may need to setup a camera to record the safe inspection as it should be hilarious watching a fully equipped cop access the safe.

Thanks Mate. can you share your opinions of where, at the bottom, did you drill the extra 2 holes? I am thinking that the 2 original holes are left and right of the bottom so perhaps front and back or will two at the front be a good idea and anyone trying to pry it would probably try pry from the front right?Perhaps 30 or 40mm in from the edge?

[boingk]

If your current setup is diagonal corners try and mirror that so you end up with all four holes equal spaced. This will give the highest strength and avoid a weak point that will render it susceptible to a pry attack.

[Rider888]

If your current setup is diagonal corners try and mirror that so you end up with all four holes equal spaced. This will give the highest strength and avoid a weak point that will render it susceptible to a pry attack.

Ok thanks. The current holes are left and right

[Rider888]

So I started to drill the 2 holes I needed. Started small with a 3mm then to 6mm then to 8mm then finally to 9mm is the plan.

However the 3mm was a struggle to go through, likely because it was the first pilot holes. The 6mm went through immediately like butter then the 8mm is struggling to the point that the drill tip and drill hole glows red and now I think the drill tip may have melted a little.

Why is it so impossible to get the 8mm to drill through, I still have the 9mm to go, but yet the 6mm went through like butter?

[womble]

Your drill speed is too high plus use some cutting oil or any lubricant you can find.
Unless you can sharpen bits your 8 mil is cactus.
Don't kill the 9 because 9 it is now.
You've also hardened the steel now so good luck

[Oldbloke]

The drill is buggered now. Was probably blunt.


I would just try the 9mm.

[Devilcv8]

I drilled a 6mm then a 10mm, and yes I adjusted the speed as required but didn’t use any lubricant. The holes mirrored the other 2.
I also put 2ankascrews into the brick wall, no way is anyone moving the safe and I’m really looking forward to my first safe inspection. The thought of a big burly cop trying to squeeze into where the safe is.... priceless

[Rider888]

Here's another one for comments and thoughts:

If the POL does an inspection on my safe, what will they be looking for in particular?

Asking because I have a small H-Cat safe and the mounting holes at the bottom will not fit a 10mm Dynabolt hence I wont be able to use this size bolt to secure. I have since mounted my safe with 8mm Dynabolts which will also do the job but is there anyway the POL would know they are 8mm's just by looking at the bolts (top part of the Dynabolts)?

I dont really want to go through the trouble of enlarging the holes on the safe.

Thoughts? Comments?

[boingk]

Hey mate,

The constabulary will likely send local rookies or other disintrested parties out to check your safe. In some instances they will appoint a licencing sergeant and assistant(s). Either way, neither will really know or care about the diameter of the bolts you use to secure it so long as they are there.

They will mainly look that it is an appropriate, secure safe of a solid construction. Bonus points if it doesn't look like it was home-made, converted from another item (eg locker / filing cabinet) or have a Chinese looking label peeling off the front. If it doesn't move when they give it a good yank thats a plus.

Most won't bother questioning if it looks legit. It's not possession, as commonly thought, but a veneer of legitimacy that makes up nine tenths of the law. They will ask to look inside and see the firearms, see that they are appropriately stored (ie rendered safe) and then tick them off their list and get going. They likely have another dozen to get through, or otherwise call-outs (stealings, break-ins, domestics) mounting up in their list. The chatter on their radios will attest to this if so.

Blue-suited firearm enthusiasts will have a chat about what you have if it is distinctive, interesting, or similar to something in their collection. Don't take it as a threat, they are just people and have interests other than locking people up. By the same token, don't share anything that you wouldn't want law enforcement to know - they likely won't appreciate tales or sights of careless ownership. A safe answer to how an aggressive/unique looking or otherwise modified (but legal) firearm came to be that way is "I bought it like that".

Keep your equipment clean, well organised and in a safe condition. Same for ammunition - well organised is the ticket. Ensure any external lock-boxes are appropriately located and locked. Make sure that if you have multiple firearms there is an appropriate space to examine them and check serial numbers. A made bed, spare table or cloth-covered shed floor are all fine - the main thing is ease of organisation and keeping your firearms undamaged. Feel free to hold and show them the serial number as they request by firearm, or work through what you have. They'll let you know which they prefer if theres a few. If a piece is antique, unique, valuable or otherwise special to you feel free to insist that no other person touches it but that you are happy to show them what is required for the inspection.

Lastly, ensure any other residents DO NOT show the key / code for the safe to the Police. Unless licenced, they must not have access - contravention may mean seizure of your firearms and a court date or fine. The inspection will likely be arranged with you beforehand but sometimes you may happen to be away when they call by. Simply ensure others know that they are just to answer they do not know the access to your safe, and to call back when you are home.

Hope that helps. Honestly, 99% of the time, its usually just another meeting with curious fellow humans.

- boingk

[Rider888]

Great read thanks for the info. I doubt I will be able to meet their 10x90mm requirement anyway as the 10mm bolt is too large for the holes in my safe. Key thing for me is that if it is secure, as you have said, it will be fine.

Cheers

Hey mate,

The constabulary will likely send local rookies or other disintrested parties out to check your safe. In some instances they will appoint a licencing sergeant and assistant(s). Either way, neither will really know or care about the diameter of the bolts you use to secure it so long as they are there.

They will mainly look that it is an appropriate, secure safe of a solid construction. Bonus points if it doesn't look like it was home-made, converted from another item (eg locker / filing cabinet) or have a Chinese looking label peeling off the front. If it doesn't move when they give it a good yank thats a plus.

Most won't bother questioning if it looks legit. It's not possession, as commonly thought, but a veneer of legitimacy that makes up nine tenths of the law. They will ask to look inside and see the firearms, see that they are appropriately stored (ie rendered safe) and then tick them off their list and get going. They likely have another dozen to get through, or otherwise call-outs (stealings, break-ins, domestics) mounting up in their list. The chatter on their radios will attest to this if so.

Blue-suited firearm enthusiasts will have a chat about what you have if it is distinctive, interesting, or similar to something in their collection. Don't take it as a threat, they are just people and have interests other than locking people up. By the same token, don't share anything that you wouldn't want law enforcement to know - they likely won't appreciate tales or sights of careless ownership. A safe answer to how an aggressive/unique looking or otherwise modified (but legal) firearm came to be that way is "I bought it like that".

Keep your equipment clean, well organised and in a safe condition. Same for ammunition - well organised is the ticket. Ensure any external lock-boxes are appropriately located and locked. Make sure that if you have multiple firearms there is an appropriate space to examine them and check serial numbers. A made bed, spare table or cloth-covered shed floor are all fine - the main thing is ease of organisation and keeping your firearms undamaged. Feel free to hold and show them the serial number as they request by firearm, or work through what you have. They'll let you know which they prefer if theres a few. If a piece is antique, unique, valuable or otherwise special to you feel free to insist that no other person touches it but that you are happy to show them what is required for the inspection.

Lastly, ensure any other residents DO NOT show the key / code for the safe to the Police. Unless licenced, they must not have access - contravention may mean seizure of your firearms and a court date or fine. The inspection will likely be arranged with you beforehand but sometimes you may happen to be away when they call by. Simply ensure others know that they are just to answer they do not know the access to your safe, and to call back when you are home.

Hope that helps. Honestly, 99% of the time, its usually just another meeting with curious fellow humans.

- boingk

[SAnewb85]

Here's another one for comments and thoughts:

If the POL does an inspection on my safe, what will they be looking for in particular?

Asking because I have a small H-Cat safe and the mounting holes at the bottom will not fit a 10mm Dynabolt hence I wont be able to use this size bolt to secure. I have since mounted my safe with 8mm Dynabolts which will also do the job but is there anyway the POL would know they are 8mm's just by looking at the bolts (top part of the Dynabolts)?

I dont really want to go through the trouble of enlarging the holes on the safe.

Thoughts? Comments?

For the sake of however long it takes to enlarge the holes, it's worth it to be 100% legal and squeaky clean.

I enjoy my hobby too much to take any risk, but that's me, risk averse

[JohnV]

You had too many drilling steps so the drill was only cutting on the points and jamming not cutting freely , the steel may have some carbon content and hardened up when it gets hot . No cutting lube either . You only needed a 5 mm pilot hole then drill to full size slowly and apply cutting oil . Stop if it's getting hot but don't quench it with water , let it cool down and start again . A sharp drill that is cutting nicely does not get as hot as a blunt drill or a jamming drill .

[unusedname]

Hey mate,

The constabulary will likely send local rookies or other disinterested parties out to check your safe. In some instances, they will appoint a licensing sergeant and assistant(s). Either way, neither will really know nor care about the diameter of the bolts you use to secure it so long as they are there.

- boingk

I had an inspection at Armidale, the licensing Sargeant came out. He looked at the box the coach screws came in to make sure they were the correct size. He also checked the number of pins on the locking mechanism. He wasn't exactly nice, he was curt, but he was professional and interested. He knew his subject material well enough.

At a mate's inspection in Taree, they checked the bolts as well. I think that was the licensing sargeant as well.

I know of a small country town, the cop knows everyone who owns a gun, every type of gun, and inspects every safe every two years.

The local gun shop says inspection failures are reasonably common. He always has a few 2nd handguns for sale, and often says they came from people who failed safe storage.

I had an inspection out of Windsor many years ago, they hung off the door, as in with the door open lifted themselves off the ground using the door to do so. The safe held, I passed my inspection. At the time it was easy, I only had a single shot 223 rifle on a farm, so it was an easy inspection.

I would make sure your bolts are correct and the safe can withstand a hurricane.

[Oldbloke]

Great read thanks for the info. I doubt I will be able to meet their 10x90mm requirement anyway as the 10mm bolt is too large for the holes in my safe. Key thing for me is that if it is secure, as you have said, it will be fine.

Cheers

If your still worried put a bolt or decent screw into a something solid 3/4 up the safe. Near the top. Into a solid beam or framing timber.

Only bolting to the floor is crappy IMO.

Then will pass inspection no worries.

[Rider888]

Great read thanks for the info. I doubt I will be able to meet their 10x90mm requirement anyway as the 10mm bolt is too large for the holes in my safe. Key thing for me is that if it is secure, as you have said, it will be fine.

Cheers

If your still worried put a bolt or decent screw into a something solid 3/4 up the safe. Near the top. Into a solid beam or framing timber.

Only bolting to the floor is crappy IMO.

Then will pass inspection no worries.

Thanks for that info. Im trying to minimise the holes drilled as it's a rental. Currently I have already made a total or 8 holes and the handy man has made another 4 and he also had the same problem as me so he got the s**ts and left so now I have a safe with 12 holes on the slab, 1 Dynabolts in and 1 halfway in and broken cause he couldnt get the holes to line up either.
This is so weird that this is happening. I did my own DYI install in SA and that was like 10 minutes all up but maybe that is the difference between using 2 bolts, SA requirement, vs using 4 bolts in NSW which is an overkill and totally unnecessary

[Oldbloke]

Your still having trouble???

Normally this is an easy job.

Is it a rifle safe?

What is the rental?? Can you describe it.

[Rider888]

Your still having trouble???

Normally this is an easy job.

Is it a rifle safe? No it's a small H Cat safe - Spika's smallest one

What is the rental?? Can you describe it.

Rental property I mean sorry for the confusion

[Oldbloke]

Yes, I know. Is it a house, high rise unit double story etc?

[JohnV]

When setting T bolt anchors the hole needs to the right diameter so the casing slides in easy but a neat fit . Vacuum out the holes as you go and get the depth right T bolt casing should be just a fraction below the surface . To stop the casing coming up above the surface when it is fully tight place a washer or thin plate over the thread so when its tightened the casing can not come out past the washer or plate being held down by the safe . This is sometimes necessary when the safe mounting holes are extra large or the wall holes to large or the wall material very soft . If you have trouble with the casings coming above the surface and don't have any washers or plates and you don't want a thin gap at the wall set the t bolts tightening lightly and then remove the safe and tap the edges of the casing down with a hammer and punch . They should be tight enough then to resist further movement . You can also tighten them with a washer or plate in place then remove the safe and discard the washer and replace the safe and retighten .
Place the safe back on the threads and tighten slowly to fully tight but don't overdo it .

[Rider888]

Yes, I know. Is it a house, high rise unit double story etc?

Sorry double story but slab is on ground floor. DOnt think upstairs would be too great into the boards unless you think its a good and secure way?

I just dont get how 4 screws into timber upstairs is as secure but this is due to my inexperience

[yoshie]

stainless_steel_coach_screw.jpg (6.06 KiB) Viewed 4188 times

Yes, I know. Is it a house, high rise unit double story etc?

I just dont get how 4 screws into timber upstairs is as secure but this is due to my inexperience

Coach bolts are quite secure, just make sure you get a stud or noggin

[Oldbloke]

stainless_steel_coach_screw.jpg

Yes, I know. Is it a house, high rise unit double story etc?

I just dont get how 4 screws into timber upstairs is as secure but this is due to my inexperience

Coach bolts are quite secure, just make sure you get a stud or noggin

Correct.

Where your drilling into slab there must be a rio overlap. Other wise would be no problem.

Cant do up stairs or another location on the slab?

[Rider888]

Will speak to my handyman again friday as he is coming to try again. The issue wasn't drilling through the slab. The issue was that after he put the safe down and marked the holes, removed the same and drilled the holes then put the safe back on and the holes did not line up and he couldn't get the dynabolts in

[Larry]

Will speak to my handyman again friday as he is coming to try again. The issue wasn't drilling through the slab. The issue was that after he put the safe down and marked the holes, removed the same and drilled the holes then put the safe back on and the holes did not line up and he couldn't get the dynabolts in

Perhaps it is time for a new handyman. Maybe drill the holes in the concrete with the safe still in place. If the safe restricts the drill size use the biggest possible with the safe in place then move it out of the way and enlarge them to the size required for the bolt. I would use the anchor bolts not the dyna bolts I find them to work much better. Just get all the dust out of the hole so the bolt can fet to depth.

[Lsfan]

I don’t really like dynabolts or similar. In particular if your holes are slightly out of alignment, maybe use chemical anchors. You can get pieces of threaded rod or studs at the correct length. The only thing is the epoxy is around $30 for a cartridge. Squirt in the holes, push the studs in and allow to cure, then put nuts on and tighten. You could even oversize the holes in the concrete a little beforehand so the stud will go in and line up with the holes in your safe. Chemsets are much better than dynabolts or expansion anchors as long as you blow the holes out. You can even put the nut on the stud and then push it all the way in. When the epoxy has cured, there’s hardly any tightening to do.

[Rider888]

Will speak to my handyman again friday as he is coming to try again. The issue wasn't drilling through the slab. The issue was that after he put the safe down and marked the holes, removed the same and drilled the holes then put the safe back on and the holes did not line up and he couldn't get the dynabolts in

Perhaps it is time for a new handyman. Maybe drill the holes in the concrete with the safe still in place. If the safe restricts the drill size use the biggest possible with the safe in place then move it out of the way and enlarge them to the size required for the bolt. I would use the anchor bolts not the dyna bolts I find them to work much better. Just get all the dust out of the hole so the bolt can fet to depth.

The safe is too small to get a drill in. It’s only about 35x30x30 cm