Gun shop security.

Questions about New South Wales gun and ammunition laws. NSW Firearms Act 1996.

Gun shop security.

Post by Bugman » 04 Apr 2021, 6:34 am

Just found out that a gun shop I sometimes frequent had a visit from FAR (NSW) and was instructed to fit security bars to windows and doors etc. Not sure of the full story, but it would seem the powers that be have started cracking down on what they think is the only way for a legitimate store owner to operate.
This could be the start of an even bigger brother is watching you. By the way, this store has been operating like this for many years, without incident and after having numerous FAR checks. Go figure.
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Re: Gun shop security.

Post by InisBineest » 04 Apr 2021, 8:03 am

Well, to be fair, most fun shops I go to in Vic have iron bars fitted to all windows. Nno one likes being told what to do, but wouldn't it make sense to invest in security if you own a gun shop?
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Re: Gun shop security.

Post by Bugman » 04 Apr 2021, 8:21 am

Absolutely correct. In this case it would appear that the original setup was sanctioned by FAR etc quite a few times and now someone else has deemed the current and previously acceptable situation, not acceptable. Also the more security modifications now required, only add to the cost of items bought from this shop, and others for that matter. I think the powers that be need to install a set of rules, not guidelines, for these situations.
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Post by bigrich » 04 Apr 2021, 9:18 am

Bugman wrote:Just found out that a gun shop I sometimes frequent had a visit from FAR (NSW) and was instructed to fit security bars to windows and doors etc. Not sure of the full story, but it would seem the powers that be have started cracking down on what they think is the only way for a legitimate store owner to operate.
This could be the start of an even bigger brother is watching you. By the way, this store has been operating like this for many years, without incident and after having numerous FAR checks. Go figure.


so this gun shop didn't have security bars on windows and doors :wtf:
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Post by Bugman » 04 Apr 2021, 10:11 am

No it didn't. And I think another one in a nearby suburb is the same. I would think that the glass is bullet proof security glass though, otherwise how could they operate.
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Post by womble » 04 Apr 2021, 10:33 am

One shop in Melbourne had 64 handguns stolen 2 months ago.
And a pallet load of new firearms went missing from a warehouse in Melbourne 3 days ago.
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Post by Bugman » 04 Apr 2021, 10:36 am

Definitely not good news for us.
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Post by Larry » 04 Apr 2021, 11:11 am

They may also be asked to put in a dual door system like an air lock. so customers can be previewed before entering and slowing down entry and exit.
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Post by Bugman » 04 Apr 2021, 11:14 am

I think Cleavers in QLD have a similar system for entry.
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Post by Robin » 04 Apr 2021, 11:17 am

I would rather see a gun shop with more bars and security then have a drugged up thief see a opportunity to break in and take a few things.
Either option raises cost and passes it on to us, the difference is is that if a thief breaks in and takes a truck load of items from a gun shop, it would give the media a field day and make it harder for the shops to operate which in return would cost way more then the extra security.
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Post by bigrich » 04 Apr 2021, 11:51 am

Bugman wrote:Definitely not good news for us.


Yup , never mind catching the criminals who committed these crimes. Let’s put more restrictions on the honest LFAO’s

That seems to be the mentality of police/ government
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Post by bigrich » 04 Apr 2021, 11:53 am

Bugman wrote:I think Cleavers in QLD have a similar system for entry.


Yes they do, as do “shooters delight”. Shooters is not a shop I frequent though
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Post by rc42 » 04 Apr 2021, 4:18 pm

There was a break-in and theft of handguns a few months ago at Shooters Delight
https://www.facebook.com/9NewsGoldCoast ... 027648987/

I heard mention at our pistol club that the thieves went straight for the Glock pistols and that the way that security had been bypassed suggested insider help.
The double door system is for when the store is open, it just means there is no way for somebody to grab a firearm and run out of the store.

Police have firearms stolen from themselves too but they don't like to let that get into the news.
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Post by Robin » 04 Apr 2021, 5:31 pm

rc42 wrote:There was a break-in and theft of handguns a few months ago at Shooters Delight
https://www.facebook.com/9NewsGoldCoast ... 027648987/

I heard mention at our pistol club that the thieves went straight for the Glock pistols and that the way that security had been bypassed suggested insider help.
The double door system is for when the store is open, it just means there is no way for somebody to grab a firearm and run out of the store.

Police have firearms stolen from themselves too but they don't like to let that get into the news.



I was wondering if it was true or just Facebook bulls**t , because I went to get ammo the next day and the place didn't look like anything had happened, even the staff looked too relaxed for a place that got broken into .
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Post by womble » 04 Apr 2021, 7:00 pm

Here’s a thought.
If you own a shop that sells handguns and someone comes in to steal them, how about deterring them with a handgun.
Just putting it out there.
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Post by bigrich » 04 Apr 2021, 7:16 pm

womble wrote:Here’s a thought.
If you own a shop that sells handguns and someone comes in to steal them, how about deterring them with a handgun.
Just putting it out there.


ummm, i wouldn't be posting a comment like that online . especially with weapons licensing looking for reasons to revoke licenses . the only way you could do such a thing would be employ a armed security gaurd . even then drawing a handgun is supposed to be a last resort
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Post by womble » 04 Apr 2021, 7:40 pm

Just a sad state of affairs when unarmed crims can steal from gun shops. Hardworking owners can do nothing but comply.
Something very backwards about it.
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Post by Bugman » 04 Apr 2021, 7:54 pm

womble wrote:Here’s a thought.
If you own a shop that sells handguns and someone comes in to steal them, how about deterring them with a handgun.
Just putting it out there.



I distinctly remember, over 40 years ago, I was in a gun shop in George Street Sydney, purchasing a firearm and the proprietor carried a handgun in a holster, on his person. For the simple reason to protect himself and his shop. I had no problem with that, then and don't have a problem now. Just my opinion.
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Post by womble » 04 Apr 2021, 7:57 pm

Yep. Bank managers used to have them too
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Post by womble » 04 Apr 2021, 7:59 pm

Don’t know where we went wrong but criminal syndicates are flocking here.
Because we are so naive and vulnerable.
Plus our prisons are like 5 star hotels to them
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Post by Bugman » 04 Apr 2021, 8:07 pm

womble wrote:Don’t know where we went wrong but criminal syndicates are flocking here.
Because we are so naive and vulnerable.
Plus our prisons are like 5 star hotels to them

Having worked in the prison system in a past life, the food is very ordinary in most cases. The old prisons like Parramatta were hot in summer, bloody cold in winter but the new ones seem to pamper the "guests" who I might add, apparently claim they should not be there. :o
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Post by rc42 » 04 Apr 2021, 8:30 pm

womble wrote:Here’s a thought.
If you own a shop that sells handguns and someone comes in to steal them, how about deterring them with a handgun.
Just putting it out there.


There was a guy on a rural property (in NSW I think) that stopped a drug addict burglar and kept him there till police arrived by having an unloaded rifle in his hand, the police congratulated him that day but a few days later came back and confiscated every firearm belonging to him or his wife and tried to revoke his license for using a firearms outside of his license conditions.
He eventually got them back after much time and expense but protection of yourself, others or property is not a permitted use of a firearm for civilians in Australia, even having one in a holster on your own property is not permitted if it is used to intimidate an intruder or criminal.


If a gun store owner is being robbed he has to let the robbers take whatever they want and call the police if he isn't murdered in the process, even picking up an empty gun would result in the loss of his license, business and confiscation of far more stock than the robber could possibly have taken.
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Post by boingk » 04 Apr 2021, 8:31 pm

Gun shop security is pretty wel laid down in the relevant acts.

Many stores have been trading much longer than those said 'modern' acts, and my local had to up security after a visit from licensing as it wasn't to code. I don't know the specifics but they had to close while it was done so must've been major.

I don't think this is anything new, I'd say its a 'wave of awareness' after an incident or two where lacklustre security has been exposed for whatever reason. Lack of back-to-base security, windows/doors which are not barred or covered with metal security shutters after hours, lack of an appropriate strongroom, all these are reasons why a store may fail an inspection.

Personally I think its incredible that most regional stores seem to function with ammunition basically plopped behind the counter on a shelf. How's that stored to any sort of standard when they're operating during business hours? Simple - it isn't.

As for criminal syndicates, yeah, not surprised they'd like to operate here. As a society we need to grow back our d!ck and stop the pussy-footing. Mandatory minimums for violent crimes, 'truth in sentencing' laws, privatisation of the prison system so it actually functions as one and avoids sentencing based on prison capacity. Thats for starters.

Lets not even get started on the very strict self-defense laws - you start something violent with someone you better be prepared to die, and by firearm if that person is so equipped.

Fahrk it, bring back the 'old west'. Throw a public hanging out once in a while.

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Post by bigrich » 04 Apr 2021, 9:52 pm

boingk wrote:

Lets not even get started on the very strict self-defense laws - you start something violent with someone you better be prepared to die, and by firearm if that person is so equipped.

Fahrk it, bring back the 'old west'. Throw a public hanging out once in a while.

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while i would agree with a lot of points you made, and i'm not trying to stiffle freedom of speech , in the past this forum has had people on it i was sus on . some may have been "anti's" asking stupid questions like how to you convert a semi auto to full auto :roll: , but i'm quite sure some were feds monitoring this forum for right wing nutters . posting a statement like the one above could get you in trouble , or work against LAFO's . just sayin :unknown:
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Post by boingk » 04 Apr 2021, 10:47 pm

bigrich wrote:in the past this forum has had people on it i was sus on i'm quite sure some were feds monitoring this forum


Indeed my good man.

I stand by what I said.

If the 'feds' are like any other department they'll do bugger all about a pseudonym making vague assertions over the 'net.

If, however, I said I wanted to do X to Mr X of 123 X Street, Xington... that would be another thing. I tend to avoid that type of statement in general, not just on the internet.

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Post by womble » 05 Apr 2021, 1:48 am

rc42 wrote:
womble wrote:Here’s a thought.
If you own a shop that sells handguns and someone comes in to steal them, how about deterring them with a handgun.
Just putting it out there.


There was a guy on a rural property (in NSW I think) that stopped a drug addict burglar and kept him there till police arrived by having an unloaded rifle in his hand, the police congratulated him that day but a few days later came back and confiscated every firearm belonging to him or his wife and tried to revoke his license for using a firearms outside of his license conditions.
He eventually got them back after much time and expense but protection of yourself, others or property is not a permitted use of a firearm for civilians in Australia, even having one in a holster on your own property is not permitted if it is used to intimidate an intruder or criminal.


If a gun store owner is being robbed he has to let the robbers take whatever they want and call the police if he isn't murdered in the process, even picking up an empty gun would result in the loss of his license, business and confiscation of far more stock than the robber could possibly have taken.


All very true. Many examples out there like you mention and always the victim faces the consequences of loss of licence, guns seized, legal expenses etc.
My comment was flippant. Just not many places in the world where a thief would purposely target a gun shop during trading hours.
Whereas here they don’t need to have any concern for their safety.
I understand why and nobody would want to be put in a position where they may have to fire at another person. Ideally that thief could be arrested, incarcerated and reformed. He has a family and people who care about him. We need to give him the option to live a better life.
It’s just that the thieves know all this too and exploit it.
Just give me all the bacon and eggs you have.
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Post by Bugman » 05 Apr 2021, 12:21 pm

An interesting thing, is that my daughters neighbour had a break and enter when they were home. They apparently complied with the thief's demands but the dog had a go at him and did a bit of damage to his leg. The coppers arrived an hour or so later and said that they had a suspect in custody ( apparently arrested at a local hospital, waiting to get some stitches in the dog bite), but the coppers warned them that the thief could take civil action for damages. Huh? Have not heard any more on the matter so I don't know what happened. :?
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Post by bigrich » 05 Apr 2021, 1:17 pm

Bugman wrote:An interesting thing, is that my daughters neighbour had a break and enter when they were home. They apparently complied with the thief's demands but the dog had a go at him and did a bit of damage to his leg. The coppers arrived an hour or so later and said that they had a suspect in custody ( apparently arrested at a local hospital, waiting to get some stitches in the dog bite), but the coppers warned them that the thief could take civil action for damages. Huh? Have not heard any more on the matter so I don't know what happened. :?


the law definately does not defer to the victims of crime that's for sure :thumbsdown:
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Re: Gun shop security.

Post by linkoln » 06 Apr 2021, 2:24 pm

One shop near me has an air lock door on the entry so when you come in you are in a cage and have to be buzzed in by the staff.
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Post by bah! » 06 Apr 2021, 3:22 pm

Bugman wrote:but the coppers warned them that the thief could take civil action for damages. Huh? Have not heard any more on the matter so I don't know what happened. :?


Yawn, heard versions of this going back to when people kept a dinosaurs as pets, or maybe the other way around.

The law however states;

Civil Liability

Under section 25 of the Companion Animals Act 1998 (NSW) the owner of a dog is liable for damages in respect of:

Bodily injury to a person caused by the dog wounding or attacking that person, and
Damage to the personal property of a person (including clothing) caused by the dog in the course of attacking that person
However this section does not apply to an attack by a dog occurring on any property occupied by the dog’s owner or on which the dog is ordinarily kept, provided that the person attacked was not lawfully on the property and the dog was not classified as a dangerous, menacing or restricted dog at the time of the attack.
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