Gamerancher wrote:...The questions about mental health issues ask whether you are suffering from a condition that would make you unsafe to use firearms.....
disco stu wrote:I'm not sure if the forms have changed recently, as you mention new p650 form. Are you referring to this section of the form: "d) Are you suffering from any mental illness or other disorder that may prevent you from using a firearm safely?" That is from the form dated 2008.
As mentioned by others in the thread, this question has (unfortunately) been updated and is now a lot more strict -
for reference the newer one is:
" In the past 12 months been treated or referred for treatment for alcoholism, drug dependence or a mental illness within the meaning of the Mental Health Act 2007 or as a mentally disordered person within the meaning of that Act"
Gamerancher wrote:...Yeah, wondering what the issue is. You don't send a P650 anywhere... .
According to nsw FAR if you 'fail' the P650 it can be sent to them for assessment. they told me to call a club but it's increasingly clear that it's not a common process. it's documented here:
https://www.police.nsw.gov.au/online_se ... rocess#A10 :...f you have responded ‘Yes’ to any question other than (a)(i) correctly, you are prohibited from taking part in unlicensed shooting..." but it's not clear if this applies to a safety course - as my understanding is I could complete a course and get licensed without doing any actual shooting
linkoln wrote:Which part of the p650 can't you pass, do they consider ADHD a mental illness if so the only solution is to go to your doctor and see if they will write a letter saying you are ok to use firearms.
you know.. my initial answer was 'it definitely falls under the definition' but I'm reading the act it references and it's defined as:
- Code: Select all
14 Mentally ill persons(cf 1990 Act, s 9)
(1) A person is a mentally ill person if the person is suffering from mental illness and, owing to that illness, there are reasonable grounds for believing that care, treatment or control of the person is necessary—
(a) for the person’s own protection from serious harm, or
(b) for the protection of others from serious harm.
(2) In considering whether a person is a mentally ill person, the continuing condition of the person, including any likely deterioration in the person’s condition and the likely effects of any such deterioration, are to be taken into account.
15 Mentally disordered persons(cf 1990 Act, s 10)
A person (whether or not the person is suffering from mental illness) is a mentally disordered person if the person’s behaviour for the time being is so irrational as to justify a conclusion on reasonable grounds that temporary care, treatment or control of the person is necessary—
(a) for the person’s own protection from serious physical harm, or
(b) for the protection of others from serious physical harm.
so i'm questioning if ADHD counts under that? that definition seems focused on if you're a harm to yourself or others, which i'm not.
However - It's definitely a medical condition and mental illness in the common usage of the term, and given how 'on record' ADHD has to be (6 monthly psych visits and S8 medication) I would be extremely concerned that NSW FAR Will come back and say "nope you lied on your P650" and ruin my chances of ever having a licence.
bluerob wrote:] In regards to the ADHD issue, you will probably be required to have a mental health assessment by a psychologist?
yep - i'm certain i'll need this. Ideally i'd like to know the requirements NSW FAR has for those letters before I waste $500 on some letters that won't help me out.
Gamerancher wrote:If that is not the case, sorry, but it's probably best to look at another sport.
linkoln wrote:The p650 actually doesn't say you can even get a letter from your doctor you are just ineligible to use firearms, NSW is tough and unfortunately this looks like the end of the road for you; you will probably need to find another sport to participate in.
This might end up being the outcome but I'm not going to give up at this stage. my experience with "paperwork loops" like this (I need a licence to do a safety course, I need a safety course to get a licence) is that there is always a way past it if you politely but persistently keep at it with the relevant department.
I think my next step is to call NSW FAR And figure out A) if the Info I was given was correct (that it can be sent in for FAR assessment if 'failed') and if so, B) how the hell I do that / the clubs do that. Even though the wording of the question means I can
probably answer no, being pulled up in five years because the FAR doesn't agree with my interpretation of the wording is Something i'd like to avoid if at all possible (and I can't imagine that would be much fun for the endorsing club either). Failing that, it might be time to seek some legal advice so at least I have it from a professional that it's a reasonable interpretation of the wording.
Edit: I just found
this 'permit' and I suspect this is what the NSW FAR was referring to when I spoke to them. since it isn't specifically for this purpose i'll see what they say when I call them.