Safe inspection advice

Questions about New South Wales gun and ammunition laws. NSW Firearms Act 1996.

Safe inspection advice

Post by Rider888 » 06 Aug 2021, 11:34 am

They have finally booked me in for a safe inspection next week and have told me that my firearms and rego papers need to be made available to them as well.

My question is this: can my safe also contain personal documents when they come for the inspection or should I remove it before hand?

Thanks
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Re: Safe inspection advice

Post by RoginaJack » 06 Aug 2021, 12:49 pm

I don't see why not but I'd be inclined to remove them before hand.
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Re: Safe inspection advice

Post by Bugman » 06 Aug 2021, 12:55 pm

Rider888 wrote:They have finally booked me in for a safe inspection next week and have told me that my firearms and rego papers need to be made available to them as well.

My question is this: can my safe also contain personal documents when they come for the inspection or should I remove it before hand?

Thanks


I recently had a safe inspection and the copper who carried it out did not request to see my rego papers. ( I had them ready, just the same). He had a list issued from FAR, and upon inspection of each firearm I had, just cross checked with his list. All tallied correctly with his issued info. I also had a small lock box in the safe containing some personal stuff and he was not interested in that.
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Re: Safe inspection advice

Post by Oldbloke » 06 Aug 2021, 1:05 pm

Bugman wrote:
Rider888 wrote:They have finally booked me in for a safe inspection next week and have told me that my firearms and rego papers need to be made available to them as well.

My question is this: can my safe also contain personal documents when they come for the inspection or should I remove it before hand?

Thanks


I recently had a safe inspection and the copper who carried it out did not request to see my rego papers. ( I had them ready, just the same). He had a list issued from FAR, and upon inspection of each firearm I had, just cross checked with his list. All tallied correctly with his issued info. I also had a small lock box in the safe containing some personal stuff and he was not interested in that.


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Re: Safe inspection advice

Post by Communism_Is_Cancer » 06 Aug 2021, 1:51 pm

Unless the personal items are illegal than it is not illegal to store otherthings with firearms(ammo being exception).

I don't know NSW law but in QLD what we call small arms ammo is a schedule 4 explosive and in regards to storage the law states “in its original packaging or in packaging or containers designed to protect the explosives individually”.

I would take that to mean you can't store loaded magazines because a magazine does not fit the description of “packaging or containers”.
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Re: Safe inspection advice

Post by MontyShooter » 06 Aug 2021, 4:40 pm

What are rego papers?
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Re: Safe inspection advice

Post by No1Mk3 » 06 Aug 2021, 4:58 pm

G'day montyShooter,
The pink coloured paper LRD usually send to you saying "Certificate of Firearm Registration". They are so good at it that I have one for nearly 60% of my guns! The more important piece of paper is the white data sheet also labelled "Firearm Registration Certificate" that the Cops use to check your guns, all details regarding serial numbers and caliber need to tally so it is worth checking that it does. I have 9 errors on mine, plus one firearm completely missing, so am trying to get the peanuts at LRD to update their data as an inspection may cost me my guns due to their faulty work as the Officer doing the inspection can only work off the list they give him/her, Cheers.
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Re: Safe inspection advice

Post by rc42 » 07 Aug 2021, 12:54 am

Communism_Is_Cancer wrote:I don't know NSW law but in QLD what we call small arms ammo is a schedule 4 explosive and in regards to storage the law states “in its original packaging or in packaging or containers designed to protect the explosives individually”.

I would take that to mean you can't store loaded magazines because a magazine does not fit the description of “packaging or containers”.


The QLD explosives regs also say that ammunition can be repackaged for any reason into containers that offer equivalent protection to those provided by the manufacturers, they also mention reloading where the licensed shooter is effectively the manufacturer and gets to choose the packaging.

However, in the case of magazines, they are considered a major firearm part in QLD so can't be stored with ammunition although an empty magazine in the same container might be overlooked. A loaded magazine, even in a separate safe, would probably be the end of your license and a loaded magazine during transport to/from a range certainly would be.
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Re: Safe inspection advice

Post by boingk » 07 Aug 2021, 8:03 am

Pretty sure this directly relates to NSW - its asked by someone from NSW and is in a section titled 'NSW Laws'.

To the original poster, no it shouldn't be an issue to have personal documents in the safe. Again, I'd still be inclined to move them so they aren't there for the inspection.

The cops who come will have a list printout of what you have. This will include the make, action, caliber and serial number. That's it. They'll want to see the firearms properly stored in a safe and anything relating to them appropriately stored.

I use padlocked military style lockboxes for my ammunition and a lockable tool chest for my primers and powder - this is vented with several 3/8" holes to help negate the destructive power of a cookoff. The bolts and magazines for my rifles are kept in the interior lockbox in the safe as I find it easier, although I believe there is no longer a storage requirement for this.

Have everything ready for inspection and you'll have no issues. They'll run through the list checking serial numbers, have a look at the safe and then leave.

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Re: Safe inspection advice

Post by MontyShooter » 07 Aug 2021, 11:57 am

No1Mk3 wrote:G'day montyShooter,
The pink coloured paper LRD usually send to you saying "Certificate of Firearm Registration". They are so good at it that I have one for nearly 60% of my guns! The more important piece of paper is the white data sheet also labelled "Firearm Registration Certificate" that the Cops use to check your guns, all details regarding serial numbers and caliber need to tally so it is worth checking that it does. I have 9 errors on mine, plus one firearm completely missing, so am trying to get the peanuts at LRD to update their data as an inspection may cost me my guns due to their faulty work as the Officer doing the inspection can only work off the list they give him/her, Cheers.


Ah those things. Figured they were junk mail and binned them oops. I wasn't asked for them during my inspection though. I had an extra gun in my safe that wasn't on the Vic Pol sheet as it was a pos Ruger American that was going back to nioa to be destroyed. Cop said he was there to tick off his list so zero fks. He rocked up at about 9pm on a sat night unannounced, just as I was leaving. And it's a half hour job to get all my guns out of the safes and their bags etc.
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Re: Safe inspection advice

Post by pomemax » 07 Aug 2021, 12:52 pm

Good Tip remove your Bong from the safe
Last one i had (Inspection that is) cop said you have that many counted them all and chatted for .5 hour and left .
In NSW mags and bolts can stay in firearm I have over 20 I would get them all mixed up what you going to do with levers and pumps and semi auto.
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Re: Safe inspection advice

Post by Communism_Is_Cancer » 07 Aug 2021, 1:13 pm

rc42 wrote:The QLD explosives regs also say that ammunition can be repackaged for any reason into containers that offer equivalent protection to those provided by the manufacturers, they also mention reloading where the licensed shooter is effectively the manufacturer and gets to choose the packaging.

However, in the case of magazines, they are considered a major firearm part in QLD so can't be stored with ammunition although an empty magazine in the same container might be overlooked. A loaded magazine, even in a separate safe, would probably be the end of your license and a loaded magazine during transport to/from a range certainly would be.


A magazine is not a major firearm part according to page 189 of the weapons act.
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Re: Safe inspection advice

Post by rc42 » 07 Aug 2021, 3:20 pm

Maybe, maybe not, but who wants the be the test case through the courts?
The major components list in the legislation gives examples of things that are included but does not preclude other items from being considered as major components later.

The musings from a lawyer are below, even he can't say for certain but the best way to be sure is keep magazines unloaded and not stored with ammunition.

http://www.sportingshooter.com.au/gun-l ... ose-cannon


Anyway, as mentioned, this thread is about NSW legislation which is certain to be different as that's how firearms laws work in Australia.
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Re: Safe inspection advice

Post by JohnV » 07 Aug 2021, 4:48 pm

Have your rego papers ready just in case the registry data does not match what you own . It does happen.
So you don't have to go any place to get them . Only open the safe up when the Policeman is standing in front of it .
They are not interested in anything in the safe other than firearms and possibly where and how you store your ammo.
Remove the bolts or crack the bolt or open the gun before handling it to identify serial numbers etc.
I have had three over the years and they were all quite good no drama .
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Re: Safe inspection advice

Post by animalpest » 07 Aug 2021, 9:22 pm

Only issue I had was when the cops were going through their list of my guns and asked to see my .45

Actually it was an old Daisy 4.5mm bb gun. :sarcasm: :lol:

Pays to check and have your printed license.
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Re: Safe inspection advice

Post by Rider888 » 08 Aug 2021, 10:44 am

Thanks for this info. Feeling nervous as I would hate to do anything wrong while they are there such as showing them where the keys are kept or giving them the keys to open the safe.
Not sure if I should get my key when they arrive as they’ll see it or do I grab it in advance and keep it on me and wait for them to arrive.
Also will they expect me to clear my pistols before handing it to them for checking or does none of this happens.

Just would hate to get caught out

Cheers

boingk wrote:Pretty sure this directly relates to NSW - its asked by someone from NSW and is in a section titled 'NSW Laws'.

To the original poster, no it shouldn't be an issue to have personal documents in the safe. Again, I'd still be inclined to move them so they aren't there for the inspection.

The cops who come will have a list printout of what you have. This will include the make, action, caliber and serial number. That's it. They'll want to see the firearms properly stored in a safe and anything relating to them appropriately stored.

I use padlocked military style lockboxes for my ammunition and a lockable tool chest for my primers and powder - this is vented with several 3/8" holes to help negate the destructive power of a cookoff. The bolts and magazines for my rifles are kept in the interior lockbox in the safe as I find it easier, although I believe there is no longer a storage requirement for this.

Have everything ready for inspection and you'll have no issues. They'll run through the list checking serial numbers, have a look at the safe and then leave.

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Re: Safe inspection advice

Post by bladeracer » 08 Aug 2021, 10:59 am

My keys are attached to my belt 24/7.

Rider888 wrote:Thanks for this info. Feeling nervous as I would hate to do anything wrong while they are there such as showing them where the keys are kept or giving them the keys to open the safe.
Not sure if I should get my key when they arrive as they’ll see it or do I grab it in advance and keep it on me and wait for them to arrive.
Also will they expect me to clear my pistols before handing it to them for checking or does none of this happens.

Just would hate to get caught out

Cheers
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Re: Safe inspection advice

Post by disco stu » 08 Aug 2021, 11:32 am

I would grab the keys before hand, just so you're ready to go. Plus I don't want to show hiding spot for them to anyone else.

Clear and show them before handing them over, it's safe practice. You can't get in trouble for being safe.

I've had one inspection. They were nice, told me what they wanted me to do etc. They didn't have long as I gather they had a lot of inspections to do. I gather my experience is common and not the exception.

It's not something to stress about. Just make sure you're doing the right thing with storage, ask them if unsure and they don't tell you. In my experience the licensing police are very keen to help people do the right thing, go out of their way to help you out etc. But that's the few that I've spoken to, so can't say for all of them. You aren't in trouble, it's the equivalent of a car registration inspection, just making sure everything is fine
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Re: Safe inspection advice

Post by Gamerancher » 08 Aug 2021, 11:36 am

For a NSW inspection, best to have your keys in your pocket when they turn up. They will ask where they are kept, the answer is "with me at all times" They will ask if anyone else has access to the keys/safe/firearms, the answer is "NO"
NSW registry data is a bit so-so, have your rego papers handy to verify that all of your firearms are registered, I've had 4 inspections and their paperwork is never correct. If cannot verify that a firearm is registered, it will be confiscated.
Make sure that none of your firearms are loaded, that includes any detachable magazines, a loaded magazine can be classed as a loaded firearm by NSW police.
Make sure all of your ammo is locked separately to the firearms.
Yes, make a point of showing that they are clear in a safe fashion and know where the serial number is.
Most officers have very little experience with firearms, if show that you are knowledgeable and competent with yours' that you know how to handle them safely and that you are complying with the requirements, you won't have any dramas.
Above all, be polite and respectful.
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Re: Safe inspection advice

Post by Rider888 » 08 Aug 2021, 12:10 pm

Just on the question regarding if anyone else has access to the safe? Should I say yes if that is the truth because surely they would know that my wife is also licenced?
Also will I be asked to open my ammo safe?

Gamerancher wrote:For a NSW inspection, best to have your keys in your pocket when they turn up. They will ask where they are kept, the answer is "with me at all times" They will ask if anyone else has access to the keys/safe/firearms, the answer is "NO"
NSW registry data is a bit so-so, have your rego papers handy to verify that all of your firearms are registered, I've had 4 inspections and their paperwork is never correct. If cannot verify that a firearm is registered, it will be confiscated.
Make sure that none of your firearms are loaded, that includes any detachable magazines, a loaded magazine can be classed as a loaded firearm by NSW police.
Make sure all of your ammo is locked separately to the firearms.
Yes, make a point of showing that they are clear in a safe fashion and know where the serial number is.
Most officers have very little experience with firearms, if show that you are knowledgeable and competent with yours' that you know how to handle them safely and that you are complying with the requirements, you won't have any dramas.
Above all, be polite and respectful.
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Re: Safe inspection advice

Post by disco stu » 08 Aug 2021, 12:56 pm

As long as your wife has the appropriate licences for what is in the safe. If you have handguns and she is only cat a/b then you would say that she has access to this safe here with the 22 and shotgun in it, but not that one there that has handguns, even if there are cat a/b rifles in there also. Hope that makes sense.

With ammunition, they never asked to see my ammunition. Didn't even care at all it seemed. Doesn't mean you won't be asked. Once again, just make sure you're doing the right thing and it won't be a problem if they do check
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Re: Safe inspection advice

Post by Rider888 » 08 Aug 2021, 1:04 pm

Awesome thanks. I made sure my wife had the same class of licence as I do for times like these.
I’ll just plan for the fact that they will want to look at my ammo as well and make sure that’s in order too
Cheers

disco stu wrote:As long as your wife has the appropriate licences for what is in the safe. If you have handguns and she is only cat a/b then you would say that she has access to this safe here with the 22 and shotgun in it, but not that one there that has handguns, even if there are cat a/b rifles in there also. Hope that makes sense.

With ammunition, they never asked to see my ammunition. Didn't even care at all it seemed. Doesn't mean you won't be asked. Once again, just make sure you're doing the right thing and it won't be a problem if they do check
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Re: Safe inspection advice

Post by Communism_Is_Cancer » 08 Aug 2021, 2:05 pm

I am still yet to have a secure storage inspection and all of my firearm owning acquaintances have not either. I think Queensland only audits around 2% a year. With this China virus going around they have been placing their resources elsewhere so the number may be a lot closer to zero at the moment. I know other states do it differently and they try to inspect everybody or they want to see photos.
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Re: Safe inspection advice

Post by bladeracer » 08 Aug 2021, 3:06 pm

Rider888 wrote:Also will I be asked to open my ammo safe?



I don't think any state gives Police remit to inspect our ammunition storage.
They will take note of any ammunition they see that is not properly secured, and that probably then gives them cause to further inspect, but if your ammo is properly secured they should have zero interest in it.
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Re: Safe inspection advice

Post by boingk » 08 Aug 2021, 3:37 pm

For a NSW inspection, best to have your keys in your pocket when they turn up. They will ask where they are kept, the answer is "with me at all times" They will ask if anyone else has access to the keys/safe/firearms, the answer is "NO"
NSW registry data is a bit so-so, have your rego papers handy to verify that all of your firearms are registered, I've had 4 inspections and their paperwork is never correct.


Bingo. Exactly that. If your wife is licensed for everything in the safe then that's fine, but if not just say "NO".

NSW registry is pretty average, yeah. I've had multiple firearms which either didn't show on their record or I had since sold and were showing on theirs. Most I know have had an issue with this at some point. I keep all my registration certificates locked with the bolts etc, folded up in a registry envelope. If you no longer have them you can get copies sent to you from the registry free of charge I'm pretty sure.

I know other states do it differently and they try to inspect everybody or they want to see photos.


NSW does a big load of inspections every 5 to 10 years, probably has some flash sounding name to it that makes all the grunts groan as they know they'll be pushed to go do them inbetween domestics and break-n-enters. May or may not have gotten that info from a mate in the job. The aim is 100% inspection, very few exceptions.

Cool thing now though is that with the standard 'unconditional surrender' extended permanently if you've got something off the books you can send it to a dealer to get it reintroduced to the system, as I understand it.

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Re: Safe inspection advice

Post by disco stu » 08 Aug 2021, 8:04 pm

boingk wrote:[l

Cool thing now though is that with the standard 'unconditional surrender' extended permanently if you've got something off the books you can send it to a dealer to get it reintroduced to the system, as I understand it.

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Does that mean if your pop dies and has his old unregistered farm rifle stashed in the attic or similar that you can get it into your name legally? Purely fictional example, I've just wondered how that sort of situation would work as I imagine it's fairly common and people would want to keep it in the family if they shoot
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Re: Safe inspection advice

Post by Communism_Is_Cancer » 08 Aug 2021, 8:20 pm

disco stu wrote:Does that mean if your pop dies and has his old unregistered farm rifle stashed in the attic or similar that you can get it into your name legally? Purely fictional example, I've just wondered how that sort of situation would work as I imagine it's fairly common and people would want to keep it in the family if they shoot


Yes, there is a constant amnesty. A dealer or the police for that matter wont care(unless the serial number tells a story) if you found a rifle down by the railroad tracks and you want to register it. They wont even ask where you got it. So long as you have the correct licence and apply for a PTA, than it will be transferred in your name just like any firearm does

In fact it is lawful to be in possession of any type of firearm(unless you stole it) so long as you are in the immediate act of surrendering it to a dealer or police station. So if you happen to find a belt fed machine gun down by the old railroad yard it is lawful for you to pick it up and drive it immediately to surrender it. Will make an interesting story if you get pulled over for an RBT and may be hard to prove to a judge but it is still considered lawful.
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Re: Safe inspection advice

Post by boingk » 08 Aug 2021, 9:14 pm

disco stu wrote:Does that mean if your pop dies and has his old unregistered farm rifle stashed in the attic or similar that you can get it into your name legally? Purely fictional example, I've just wondered how that sort of situation would work as I imagine it's fairly common and people would want to keep it in the family if they shoot


Yep, pretty much. They know there are lots of unregistered firearms out there and would rather they don't have to deal with them hence making dealers a point of disposal/registration/sale etc. Another big point is that they'd rather have all these things registered if people still own them.

I know a bloke who's trying to track down his fathers Enfield 303 from WW2 which has likely been in a farm barn for the last 40 years unregistered. Using the new amnesty, he's going to try and get it back in action. Very cool.

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Re: Safe inspection advice

Post by disco stu » 08 Aug 2021, 9:37 pm

Interesting, thanks guys.
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Re: Safe inspection advice

Post by Devilcv8 » 11 Aug 2021, 7:20 pm

boingk wrote:

NSW does a big load of inspections every 5 to 10 years, probably has some flash sounding name to it that makes all the grunts groan as they know they'll be pushed to go do them inbetween domestics and break-n-enters. May or may not have gotten that info from a mate in the job. The aim is 100% inspection, very few exceptions.

- boingk

Now you even need a valid inspection to submit a PTA for a handgun.
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