Are you allowed to shoot on RU2 Zoned Land? (NSW)

[bladeracer]

If I didn't know better I'd say Bladeracer hacked your account.

I am trying to have a civil discussion with you on this matter. Yet you seem to think that because I am politely rebuffing your points with logical counter-arguments I am supportive of the behaviour discussed (shooting in dense RU2 areas), and you are attacking me for it.

Remember what you where taught in Year 10 debating class. Remain civil, and argue the point, not the person.

Agreed. He proffered some good arguments against what I was offering, so I did further research to try to find the actual answers. I keep links to each state's firearms laws and regs handy, but today I had to go even further trying to find answers to this. Trying to find legal NSW definitions of rural property for example.

In this country, we can lawfully do whatever is not specifically prohibited or prescribed by law. If you want to do something, you need to find legislation that prevents you from doing it, otherwise it's legal to do it. However, not everything has been tried as yet, so the laws can never address every single possibility, some degree of common sense still matters, even in court. There may not be any law stating that you can't build a ladder to the moon, but start building it and it's likely a law would be introduced to prevent people from doing so, probably for public safety reasons Plus, in Oz we have a legal duty-of-care toward everybody else, we have a responsibility to ensure we don't cause problems for others, or fail to assist people that are having difficulties if we are able to assist them.

[bladeracer]

Haha.. You've had a sheltered life if calling you special is an "attack" - surely you've been called far worse!

But alas, while I'd like to stay and console you, even though our debate is finished, I have foxes that need my immediate attention far more.

Remember, stay away from the boundaries and check the regulations if you're on rural land - it's not open slather as people here make it seem!

Sounds good, though damned cold down here tonight - 13C inside, with plenty of wind chill outside to drop it even further!
Good luck on the foxes, I prefer to hunt them in daylight myself.

Why do you have to avoid boundaries?

[straightshooter]

My rule is if it is zoned rural and you can have cows, sheep and horses then you can shoot on it as you must be able to protect your livestock against feral pests. So long as it is safe to do so and your projectile will not leave the property.

If one came to the attention of the Police for shooting on an inappropriately sized rural property I wonder how one would go convincing a magistrate or even a judge of the merits of that argument, especially if one were to start talking about "Magna Carta", "The Act of Settlement" or Lord Blackstone.

[dpskipper]

If one came to the attention of the Police for shooting on an inappropriately sized rural property

Again, it goes back to, is there a concrete law that says you cannot shoot on a certain size land / zoning in NSW? If no, then what do you mean by "inappropriately sized"? If shooting safely with a rimfire into a backstop, and using sub sonics if possible, with neighbour's permission, how is that "inappropriate"?

[disco stu]

I spoke to another person who was shooting deer on a 10 acre block close to here. All cleared with the police, neighbors etc

[bladeracer]

I spoke to another person who was shooting deer on a 10 acre block close to here. All cleared with the police, neighbors etc

Do you know if the block is RU2 zoned?

[bladeracer]

My rule is if it is zoned rural and you can have cows, sheep and horses then you can shoot on it as you must be able to protect your livestock against feral pests. So long as it is safe to do so and your projectile will not leave the property.

If one came to the attention of the Police for shooting on an inappropriately sized rural property I wonder how one would go convincing a magistrate or even a judge of the merits of that argument, especially if one were to start talking about "Magna Carta", "The Act of Settlement" or Lord Blackstone.

As I also can't find any legal definition of appropriately-sized property I can't see how you could ever come to the attention of Police for shooting on such land. The judge will look at the relevant Acts and Regulations, and from what I can find, would have to confirm that even one-square-meter of land is fine for shooting on, as long as it is rural, you have the landowners permission in writing, and you can do so safely.

[dpskipper]

and you can do so safely.

This is the key here. The magistrate will acknowledge there are no laws directly preventing the shooting activity. But will take community safety into consideration. As stated a few posts up, there are plenty of generic laws about "reckless endangerment" and similar behaviour.

[Oldbloke]

Sounds like the thread I started about what was a road. (Can't shoot on or over a public road, or carry a loaded firearm in Vic.)

Gave up in the end.

[disco stu]

I spoke to another person who was shooting deer on a 10 acre block close to here. All cleared with the police, neighbors etc

Do you know if the block is RU2 zoned?

I'll have to look up the zoning of it. Not sure of the exact address but I know the road it's on.

The smaller block I talked to police about was zoned environmental, can't remember which exactly though. All shots towards cliff or hill side, away from other houses. He had no issue at all

[bladeracer]

Sounds like the thread I started about what was a road. (Can't shoot on or over a public road, or carry a loaded firearm in Vic.)

Gave up in the end.

A couple years ago GMA posted the rules on FB about crossing roads when hunting, including having to secure your ammo in a separate part of the vehicle and have the firearm in a gun bag.
When I asked how I would comply with that when I hunt on foot, they said I just need to have the ammo in a separate pocket and the rifle slung over my shoulder.
When I explained I use single-point slings so the rifle hangs down my front, not over my shoulder they said to just unload the rifle and put the ammo in a pocket
Even the authorities that are supposed to enforce these laws do not understand them.

[bladeracer]

and you can do so safely.

This is the key here. The magistrate will acknowledge there are no laws directly preventing the shooting activity. But will take community safety into consideration. As stated a few posts up, there are plenty of generic laws about "reckless endangerment" and similar behaviour.

Absolutely, lots of existing laws make it illegal to do stupid things that endanger others. Just like firearm laws, they do nothing to prevent stupid acts, they just allow prosecution for it after you've done it.

[Communism_Is_Cancer]

I forgot I had this email. Several years ago when I applied for a 338 lapua PTA in QLD the police sent me this email to remind me of the law, which I have attached below. Whilst what the police say is not always law but guidelines of their interpretation it is still good behaviour to keep all correspondence.

Their interpretation and I agree with them is to ensure that all projectiles fired remain within the bounds of the property on which you have approval to discharge your firearm.

I take that to mean you can shoot all you like just don't let the projectile leave your property unless you have permission.

[big matt]

straight from the NSW Genuine Reason Application page... on sizing

We use acreage as a guideline, with 5 acres for Category A and 25 acres for Category B firearms considered suitable for most land parcels depending on the adjoining properties.

[bladeracer]

straight from the NSW Genuine Reason Application page... on sizing

We use acreage as a guideline, with 5 acres for Category A and 25 acres for Category B firearms considered suitable for most land parcels depending on the adjoining properties.

This is only for genuine reason, it is not a required minimum for shooting on.

[dpskipper]

This is only for genuine reason, it is not a required minimum for shooting on.

Yep. People gotta realize there is no legislated minimum. Theres plenty of suggestions (such as the land minimums in genuine reason) which to me indicates a "sprit" to the law. But theres not legislated minimum.

That being said don't be wanker and start cranking off 30cals in a small parcel of land, or you might just end up causing such a law to be drafted!

[Oldbloke]

Until recently I have been whistling foxes on a 45 acre block just on the edge of town. Use a squib load in my 223. Very open so shotty not very practical.
But I've decided to no longer bother.
Why? He has allowed someone to spot light on the property.
And the following hazards.
Highway just over a rise. (400 yards)
Suburbs just over that highway. (1000 yards)
Farm house down hill across a minor road. (400 yards)
Sheep and goats grazing.
Cattle on next door property. (200 yards)

To shoot safely only about half of the land was available if that.

Risk is not worth it IMO. It not just about size. Lol

Spotlighting in that situation way too risky IMO. And I have better places to shoot on.

[pomemax]

he five main zones are:
R1 Zoning NSW – General Residential
R2 Zoning NSW – Low-Density Residential
R3 Zoning NSW – Medium Density Residential
R4 Zoning NSW – High-Density Residential
R5 Zoning NSW – Large Lot Residential

then you have RU types
(a) Zone RU1 Primary Production,
(b) Zone RU2 Rural Landscape,
(c) Zone RU3 Forestry,
(d) Zone RU4 Rural Small Holdings,
(e) Zone RU6 Transition,
(f) Zone E2 Environmental Conservation,
(g) Zone E3 Environmental Management.
(h) Zone E4 Environmental Living

[bladeracer]

he five main zones are:
R1 Zoning NSW – General Residential
R2 Zoning NSW – Low-Density Residential
R3 Zoning NSW – Medium Density Residential
R4 Zoning NSW – High-Density Residential
R5 Zoning NSW – Large Lot Residential

then you have RU types
(a) Zone RU1 Primary Production,
(b) Zone RU2 Rural Landscape,
(c) Zone RU3 Forestry,
(d) Zone RU4 Rural Small Holdings,
(e) Zone RU6 Transition,
(f) Zone E2 Environmental Conservation,
(g) Zone E3 Environmental Management.
(h) Zone E4 Environmental Living

But for shooting, the law only specifies "rural property", so all of those "RU" zones are legal to shoot on.

[disco stu]

Plus environmental, but I'm not sure if all of them

[bladeracer]

Plus environmental, but I'm not sure if all of them

Yes, they'll need clarifying.

[big matt]

I'm on E3 land and have my Genuine Reason as Rural land owner-Rec hunting and vermin control and all approved no probs, which is a few steps above just rural.

[bladeracer]

I'm on E3 land and have my Genuine Reason as Rural land owner-Rec hunting and vermin control and all approved no probs, which is a few steps above just rural.

And E3 is classed as "rural land" still?

[big matt]

Ours is classed as rural, may not be the same everywhere though. Where we are the smallest block in the area is 40 acres and it goes up all the way to 150 acres, can never be subdivided and minimum size now for building is 100 acres. Only 1hr to Sydney International Airport by car and 15 mins to the beach...love it.

[bladeracer]

Ours is classed as rural, may not be the same everywhere though. Where we are the smallest block in the area is 40 acres and it goes up all the way to 150 acres, can never be subdivided and minimum size now for building is 100 acres. Only 1hr to Sydney International Airport by car and 15 mins to the beach...love it.

Sounds pretty bloody good

[disco stu]

What area you in Matt?