Gun Safe keys?

[Morsie]

Pretty new to this, and the gun laws seem to be a convoluted mess open to on the spot interpretation. I just heard a story about the police turning up to do a safe inspection, the guy wasn't home - he was running late, and they asked his wife if she knew where the keys were. "Yep, they're here". On the back of that he lost his license because she was unlicensed. If true, wtf are you supposed to do with your spare keys, let alone your main keys, which I assume most keep on a readily available key ring set-up?

[Blackened]

The "tricking your wife into opening the safe" story has been floating around for a while. It always comes up during conversations on keys.

True or not, under the law you would be right to lose your license in that circumstance, yes.

You're required to secure your firearms in a way that non-license persons do not have access. If you've willingly given/shared your keys with someone who is unlicensed, then obviously you have deliberately ignored your obligations.

You're not wrong about some areas of our firearm legislation being murky though. In 99% of these cases, it's about "taking all reasonable steps".

You don't have to have your keys locked in a chest at the bottom of the sea with a secret treasure map to find them, but if your guns got stolen/accessed because you left the keys in the drawer next to the safe, you'd have a hard time arguing that you'd put much effort into securing them.

Keep your keys on you, or hide them in a sensible spot elsewhere in the house, away from the safe.

[rc42]

I have combination locks AND keyed locks on all safes or ammo storage areas, just in case I accidentally put the keys down and forget to pick them up and hide them in one of the usual places.
It's easy to do and is worth it for the peace of mind that even if police visit for an inspection whilst I'm not there and find or are given the keys there's still no way they are getting in to anything that I'm required to keep secure.

I know that nobody else knows the 8 digit access codes and they are different for ammo and firearm storage areas and certainly not guessable numbers, so I think I am taking "all reasonable steps"

[bladeracer]

Pretty new to this, and the gun laws seem to be a convoluted mess open to on the spot interpretation. I just heard a story about the police turning up to do a safe inspection, the guy wasn't home - he was running late, and they asked his wife if she knew where the keys were. "Yep, they're here". On the back of that he lost his license because she was unlicensed. If true, wtf are you supposed to do with your spare keys, let alone your main keys, which I assume most keep on a readily available key ring set-up?

When I asked my DFO (District Firearms Officer) about this same anecdote, he explained it very simply.
If your wife lost her licence, you don't have to secure the car keys from her, she can know where they are. It's the same with your safe keys, your wife can know where you keep them, she is just not allowed to access them. I can't say whether he was legally correct in his interpretation, but it makes more sense to me than the idea that we have to keep our keys entirely concealed from our spouses.

My spouse absolutely knows where my keys are as they are physically attached to me all day every day. She has never yet accessed them as she is well aware that she is not allowed to.

[No1_49er]

I think the crux of the matter is whether or not the wife should/would get the keys for plod.
It's not unreasonable for her to know where they are. However, if she is unlicenced, then it is an absolute that she cannot use them to gain access to the firearms.
And, if plod were to ask "do you know where the keys are?", what would be wrong with an affirmative answer? If plod extended his question to "can I have them?" the answer should be a resounding "NO, that is not permitted."

[womble]

If i keep them in my jocks my wife will never find them

[No1Mk3]

Tell your Mrs to get a licence, mine has A,B,H so the problem of access never arises. Only the Collectors she can't access, for now, Cheers.

[Grumpy]

Tell your Mrs to get a licence, mine has A,B,H so the problem of access never arises. Only the Collectors she can't access, for now, Cheers.

We're the same. Co-ownership takes away any hassle if something happens to one of us, automatically goes to the other. Only problem is it gets bloody expensive paying for 2 licence upgrade application fee's at $221 each every time we get a new firearm. ( One of WA's ways of trying to deter firearm ownership)

[Lsfan]

My wife knows where my keys are but can't access them without knowing the code to the lock box within which they are located. Surely that is acceptable.

[pomemax]

Just get the Mrs to get AB I thought that would be the way to go now its when we going to the range all the time she loves it

[Communism_Is_Cancer]

The police can ask a theoretical Mrs anything they like if you are not home, however she does not need to answer the question. No warrant no entry is all she needs to tell them.

[bladeracer]

The police can ask a theoretical Mrs anything they like if you are not home, however she does not need to answer the question. No warrant no entry is all she needs to tell them.

I don't think they need a warrant when you have invited them to enter for a storage inspection.

[Communism_Is_Cancer]

The police can ask a theoretical Mrs anything they like if you are not home, however she does not need to answer the question. No warrant no entry is all she needs to tell them.

I don't think they need a warrant when you have invited them to enter for a storage inspection.

Correct. I was just referring to the story of the police doing an inspection and the bloke is not home so they ask his wife where the keys are.

[bladeracer]

The police can ask a theoretical Mrs anything they like if you are not home, however she does not need to answer the question. No warrant no entry is all she needs to tell them.

I don't think they need a warrant when you have invited them to enter for a storage inspection.

Correct. I was just referring to the story of the police doing an inspection and the bloke is not home so they ask his wife where the keys are.

Yes, so was I.

[Communism_Is_Cancer]

The police can ask a theoretical Mrs anything they like if you are not home, however she does not need to answer the question. No warrant no entry is all she needs to tell them.

I don't think they need a warrant when you have invited them to enter for a storage inspection.

Correct. I was just referring to the story of the police doing an inspection and the bloke is not home so they ask his wife where the keys are.

Yes, so was I.

Oh righto now I am with you.

If the story is true and she invited them in she has legal grounds to not answer questions and to tell them to leave. She should of never let them inside anyway.

People should never let the government into their homes unless there is legal grounds for them to be there. I was taken back at work yesterday when the young fella thought he had to do whatever the police told him to do. So many people just think the police can do whatever they want.

Tell them your name and address and keep your mouth shut for everything else.

[animalpest]

I had a safe with keypad on it. The keypad failed and cannot get a replacement.

That's ok, just use the key they supply as a backup. Well I have hid that key somewhere and for the life of me, I can't remember where it is.

[bladeracer]

I had a safe with keypad on it. The keypad failed and cannot get a replacement.

That's ok, just use the key they supply as a backup. Well I have hid that key somewhere and for the life of me, I can't remember where it is.

Use a magnet, or pick the lock.
You can also pull the keypad off the door and connect another keypad to the wires, reset, and you're in.