Securing your rifle or handgun for car transportation?

[jwai86]

I've read the current fact sheet regarding the transportation of firearms in NSW, but I don't have many practical examples to draw upon to meet my legal obligations.

An acquaintance at my pistol club stores his handgun (with a trigger lock attached) inside a lockable hard case. He then secures the case in the back of his SUV with a bike lock, although I don't recall where exactly in the back of the SUV he tethers the case to.

Can any shooters in NSW describe their setup for locking up their rifle or handgun for car transportation?

[bladeracer]

My brother only owns rifles, but he carried them in a locked aluminium case locked into an aftermarket cargo compartment built into the floor of his Jeep.

[Bugman]

My handgun(s) are stored in a padlocked container, which in turn is secured to a solid part of the inside of the vehicle by a bike chain and subsequent padlock. The ammunition is kept in a separate locked container, as is any magazines. The handguns all have trigger locks.
I don't care what other people think as it is the nature of this beast to err on the side of caution. Any rifles are locked in the vehicle with any magazines and bolts removed (stored in a locked container with any ammo) The rifles also have trigger locks.
This is just my way.

[jwai86]

My handgun(s) are stored in a padlocked container, which in turn is secured to a solid part of the inside of the vehicle by a bike chain and subsequent padlock. The ammunition is kept in a separate locked container, as is any magazines. The handguns all have trigger locks.

Where inside your vehicle do you chain the container to? This is the part that I'm most hazy about.

[Bottleshock]

I have a Wildtrak with a Tactix tool drawer bolted down in the tray. I transport my handguns in locked Pelican style cases, locked in the Tactix drawer which is locked inside my tub. So a locked box in a locked box in a locked box. I don't bother with trigger locks and in NSW they are not mandated. My longarms just get thrown in the Tactix in soft bags, bolts in and no trigger locks. I have a couple of rifles that are too long for the Tactix which I either transport in a locked hard case secured inside the locked tray tub with a cable lock or in a soft case across the back seat under a towel or two. Ammo is in a Pelican style case inside the cabin with a cable lock treaded through the front seat frame or locked in the glove box.

[bigpete]

So I'm gathering nsw law requires a lockable box attached to your vehicle. Interesting

[bladeracer]

So I'm gathering nsw law requires a lockable box attached to your vehicle. Interesting

NSW is I think like Victoria, out of sight and unloaded, but they have a catch. If for any reason you have to leave the vehicle then your firearms have to be secured to a higher level, so any sensible person will want to comply with that rather than risk an offence because of a simple mistake, like going to pay for fuel, or a break down, or pulling over for a wee.

I'm not at my computer right now but I think it was discussed here fairly recently.

[Oldbloke]

It's worth remembering g each state varies. The OP is from NSW.

Yes, Vic is close, but I believe not identical. Transporting firearms interstate is not simple.

[Bugman]

My handgun(s) are stored in a padlocked container, which in turn is secured to a solid part of the inside of the vehicle by a bike chain and subsequent padlock. The ammunition is kept in a separate locked container, as is any magazines. The handguns all have trigger locks.

Where inside your vehicle do you chain the container to? This is the part that I'm most hazy about.

The chain is connected to the seat floor mountings.

[bigpete]

So I'm gathering nsw law requires a lockable box attached to your vehicle. Interesting

NSW is I think like Victoria, out of sight and unloaded, but they have a catch. If for any reason you have to leave the vehicle then your firearms have to be secured to a higher level, so any sensible person will want to comply with that rather than risk an offence because of a simple mistake, like going to pay for fuel, or a break down, or pulling over for a wee.

I'm not at my computer right now but I think it was discussed here fairly recently.

Seeing as I'm planning on going to nsw this year it probably pays to go overboard on the safety and storage aspects

[bladeracer]

So I'm gathering nsw law requires a lockable box attached to your vehicle. Interesting

NSW is I think like Victoria, out of sight and unloaded, but they have a catch. If for any reason you have to leave the vehicle then your firearms have to be secured to a higher level, so any sensible person will want to comply with that rather than risk an offence because of a simple mistake, like going to pay for fuel, or a break down, or pulling over for a wee.

I'm not at my computer right now but I think it was discussed here fairly recently.

Seeing as I'm planning on going to nsw this year it probably pays to go overboard on the safety and storage aspects

Definitely.

[bladeracer]

It's worth remembering g each state varies. The OP is from NSW.

Yes, Vic is close, but I believe not identical. Transporting firearms interstate is not simple.

Yep. My brother is in NSW, he was in ACT, so we have looked very closely into it, including emailing and phoning ACT Registry to clarify any questions I had.

[disco stu]

No, don't need locked box Pete. Requirements say unloaded and not visible from memory, but "all reasonable precautions" say storing it to cat C, which is rendering it temporarily incapable of being fired.

I lock bolt in with ammo and throw a bike cable through action to seat frame to do the best I can when I pay for fuel, get a feed, go to toilet etc

[boingk]

Cat A & B firearms:

1) Any person in possession of a firearm must take all reasonable precautions to ensure the
firearm is kept safely, is not lost or stolen and does not come into the possession of an unauthorised person.

2) The firearm must not be loaded with any ammunition while it is being conveyed

3) While the firearm is being conveyed in a vehicle it must not be
visible from outside the vehicle.

...

Cat H / C / D Firearms:

As above, with an extra condition:

4) The firearm must be rendered temporarily incapable of being fired (e.g.
by removal of the bolt/firing mechanism or the use of trigger locks) or
must be kept in a locked container that is properly secured to, or is within
the vehicle.

...

That takes the fact sheet about a full A4 page to get through, so not surprising people are confused.

The simple fact of the law is as follows:

If you have a Cat A / B firearm in the boot or on the back seat covered by a blanket, in a hardcase etc then it complies so long as its not loaded and is not left in the vehicle unattended.

If you have a Cat H / C / D then the same applies, however you need to also render it inoperable with a trigger or action lock. If you don't render it inoperable then you need to keep it within a locked container inside the vehicle. If the container is not inside the vehicle (eg ute tray) then it needs to be secured to the vehicle to prevent removal.

There we go, easy!

[boingk]

I note there is always hysteria around the "all reasonable precautions" part of the legislation.

This does not immediately mean you need to adopt the next level of safe transport procedures, it merely means that you 1) cannot leave the firearm unattended, 2) cannot leave it loaded, 3) cannot have it visible and 4) must ensure you put it back into your safe storage receptacle as soon as possible after you finish using it.

People forget that the largest component of a firearms security is its possession and control by a lawful owner. As soon as you leave that firearm unattended - even if in a locked vehicle - you leave it open to being stolen or otherwise used by an unlawful party.

[womble]

There’s at least 2 huntsmans in my car, that I know of.
And they don’t like strangers

[jwai86]

If I take a rifle in a fabric rifle bag as opposed to a hard case, what would be the best way to secure it for transportation in the boot of my car?

[womble]

The best way would be cement.
But a cable lock through the action is also good

[jwai86]

The best way would be cement.
But a cable lock through the action is also good

Would you still find a way to tie it down in the boot so it doesn't go sliding around when driving?

[womble]

Something like a python cable lock you could thread through the action and spare tyre bracket or something.
Take the bolt out, perhaps keep it on your person and not leave it in the car. The boot is locked.
I don’t know what else they can reasonably expect from you.
Anti vehicle theft precautions. Immobiliser, alarm.
I have a tracker on my car. If it leaves without me i can find it on my phone. Vengeance would be swift unless the police get to it first.
I like my car. And i dont like scumbags.

[Pendous]

jwai86,
You've read the fact sheet and the points noted by boingk will see you compliant.
Yes your A,B rifle in a soft bag in your vehicle boot meets the requirements.
For pistols you need to comply with 1 or more of boingks dot point 4. Note the use of the word or.
Compliant firearms transport in NSW is pretty easy to manage.
I am a bike lock user for H and C and generally meet 2/3 of the requirements.
Trigger locks are cheap.

[dnedative]

I note there is always hysteria around the "all reasonable precautions" part of the legislation.

100%
The police can sprout off and give their opinions all they want but provided you comply with the firearms act your fine.
The fact that reasonable is even listed gives you a pretty good idea its interpretation is going to be down to the situation and whats sensible.
If its out of sight, unloaded, not easily stolen and your going from A>B with nothing more than a fuel stop in between your fine. Nobody is going to randomly ambush your car the second you walk inside the servo, smash your windows, pop the boot and run off with your guns let alone somehow steal your car.

[womble]

I dont really go inside the servo. Just window shopping.
Some day i hope to buy my own tank of fuel.

[Gamerancher]

Ahh, this question yet again. The requirements are pretty well stated on the fact sheet on the NSW police website as follows:[

i]What are the legislative requirements for transporting Category A & B firearms?
Category A & B firearms must be conveyed in accordance with the following requirements—
• The firearm must be conveyed in a manner that ensures compliance with section 39 of the Act (see above),
• The firearm must not be loaded with any ammunition while it is being conveyed,
• While the firearm is being conveyed in a vehicle it must not be
visible from outside the vehicle.
NOTE: At no time should a firearm be left stored unattended in a motor
vehicle unless the firearms are stored in accordance with the
requirements of category C, D & H firearms and no other alternative safe
storage is available.
What are the legislative requirements in relation to
transportation of category C, D & H firearms?
Category C, D & H firearms must be conveyed unloaded, with the
ammunition kept in a locked container separate from the firearms.
The firearm must be rendered temporarily incapable of being fired (e.g.
by removal of the bolt/firing mechanism or the use of trigger locks) or
must be kept in a locked container that is properly secured to, or is within the vehicle.[/i]

I don't know how it can be stated any clearer.

A couple of points to ponder.
There are scumbags who break into cars.
There are low-life's that steal cars.

If you are prepared to just do the minimum, which is perfectly legal, be prepared to suffer the consequences if things go pear shaped.
Imagine the following scenario;
You just drop into Bunnings, Woolies, etc. on your way home and grab a couple of things you need, you come out to find that some ar$ehole has smashed your side window and your rifle that was sitting on the floor under a blanket is gone. Be prepared to suffer the consequences of not taking "all reasonable precautions". The fact that someone was able to take your rifle will be deemed by the police that you failed to secure it.

I have too much invested in my gear to take a risk like that. It doesn't take much effort to remove the bolt, or apply a trigger lock , lock the firearms in a case that is secured to the vehicle via a cable and lock. If you don't have a lockable case or one won't fit in your vehicle, a cable through the action and secured to the vehicle structure, ( seat frame, boot hinge, etc. ) Lever guns can be secured with a cable looped around the action and through the lever. I always loop the cable back through the eye and then around the structure and locked with a quality padlock, not a $5 Chinese special.

The legislation in NSW used to state that if you transported firearms in accordance with commercial standards for C,D & H, it would be considered that you took "all reasonable precautions". I travel around Australia when competing and have always taken this approach, been inspected a few times by authorities and always been told that what I was doing was more than adequate.

[jwai86]

Earlier posts state that the added condition for transporting a Cat H firearm is to either temporarily disable the handgun with a trigger lock OR lock it up in a container that is secured to the vehicle.

It takes me 10-15 minutes to drive to and from the indoor range that my club meets at. Would I be compliant with the law if I put an unloaded handgun inside a soft case with a trigger lock in place, and then put it inside the glove box out of sight for the duration of the drive?

[dnedative]

You would be fine;
The whole thing is complete basket case; If you get a handgun stolen from a car the end result is the same regardless of how its stored. Having a pistol in a padlocked case or with a trigger lock fitted does nothing to stop it being stolen nor does it inhibit the thief from gaining access. Trigger locks are designed to stop young kids in the US from pulling triggers on guns their useless parents cant safely store. Locked cases might as well have "steal me" written on the top.


Your probably better off leaving it loaded in the glovebox, good chance they will figure it belongs to someone they shouldnt rob lol

[boingk]

A couple of points to ponder.
There are scumbags who break into cars.
There are low-life's that steal cars.

Which is why you don't leave your goddamn guns in the car unattended.

1) Its just plain stupid.
2) Its illegal.

There, problem solved.

- boingk

[boingk]

Earlier posts state that the added condition for transporting a Cat H firearm is to either temporarily disable the handgun with a trigger lock OR lock it up in a container that is secured to the vehicle.

It takes me 10-15 minutes to drive to and from the indoor range that my club meets at. Would I be compliant with the law if I put an unloaded handgun inside a soft case with a trigger lock in place, and then put it inside the glove box out of sight for the duration of the drive?

Yes, that would be perfectly legal. Remember you also need a locked box for your ammunition - cash boxes are pretty handy as they're all metal and have an integral lock. Something like this:

[jwai86]

Earlier posts state that the added condition for transporting a Cat H firearm is to either temporarily disable the handgun with a trigger lock OR lock it up in a container that is secured to the vehicle.

It takes me 10-15 minutes to drive to and from the indoor range that my club meets at. Would I be compliant with the law if I put an unloaded handgun inside a soft case with a trigger lock in place, and then put it inside the glove box out of sight for the duration of the drive?

Yes, that would be perfectly legal.

That sounds good then. A large hard case makes sense if you're bringing multiple handguns, but it feels a bit excessive for a single one that isn't being driven very far.

[Bugman]

In the absolute rare occasion that you have an accident and you are hurt, if the coppers etc check your glovebox and find a handgun, even with a trigger lock, in just a pistol bag, there could be a whole lot of trouble. Remember it appears that most accidents occur close to home. Just my opinion. BUT, for me I have two security cases, one large to store up to 4 handguns and and one small that will accommodate one, maybe two depending on what type. It is up to you. Use some common sense and cover all bases.
Some of the advice given, in most cases makes sound sense, but some, well, I would say the jury still out on that.
Your guns, your responsibility. If you got busted, but protested that some advice you were given on a shooting forum said it was all good, I would suggest that the coppers would have a good laugh. Don't take any risks.