Safes and mounting

[Rider888]

Think the answer is to be better safe than sorry but thought I'd ask my question anyway

Cat A/B safe storage states that if the safe is more than 150kg in NSW, there is no need to bolt it down. This is straight forward

What about safes that are more than 150kg but are the A/B/C/H Cat? Cat H tells me that I have to bolt it down regardless but is this a grey area or is it best to use the most stringent requirement and apply that?

I was looking at selling my 2 x Cat H safes and buying one of those big mumma safes so that I can also store my Cat A/B in it as well as my Cat H

Cheers

[dnedative]

The only way your going to get an exemption is if the safe is of such size and weight that it matters not if its bolted or not. If you have a 2000kg safe that you could stick $250k of cash in and have it insured yet it wasn't manufactured with any bolt holes in the bottom the NSW police *might* allow you to store pistols in it.

It would have to be 750kg+ I reckon for them to consider it. Anything under 250kg can be fairly easily removed with a couple of blokes, good trolley and a box trailer.
To pull 4 10mm dynabolts out of a concrete slab your looking at 2500kg+;

[bladeracer]

Think the answer is to be better safe than sorry but thought I'd ask my question anyway

Cat A/B safe storage states that if the safe is more than 150kg in NSW, there is no need to bolt it down. This is straight forward

What about safes that are more than 150kg but are the A/B/C/H Cat? Cat H tells me that I have to bolt it down regardless but is this a grey area or is it best to use the most stringent requirement and apply that?

I was looking at selling my 2 x Cat H safes and buying one of those big mumma safes so that I can also store my Cat A/B in it as well as my Cat H

Cheers

My understanding is that as soon as you put a CatH firearm in it it must be bolted down.
If you have a separate pistol safe your CatA/B does not need to be bolted down.

[Rider888]

Thank you for confirming my thoughts. Much appreciated

Think the answer is to be better safe than sorry but thought I'd ask my question anyway

Cat A/B safe storage states that if the safe is more than 150kg in NSW, there is no need to bolt it down. This is straight forward

What about safes that are more than 150kg but are the A/B/C/H Cat? Cat H tells me that I have to bolt it down regardless but is this a grey area or is it best to use the most stringent requirement and apply that?

I was looking at selling my 2 x Cat H safes and buying one of those big mumma safes so that I can also store my Cat A/B in it as well as my Cat H

Cheers

My understanding is that as soon as you put a CatH firearm in it it must be bolted down.
If you have a separate pistol safe your CatA/B does not need to be bolted down.

[Bugman]

I checked this out with my local gun shop after all they sell the safes. If it is a cat H storage, it must be bolted down, here in NSW

[Rider888]

Also not a lot of specific guidance from the legislation as to what is an Approved safe for Cat A/B. Unlike Cat H that states it needs to be 6mm thick etc.
Does this mean that a lockable school locker will meet the regulations for Cat A/B or do I need something more substantial like a safe for the LGS?

[bladeracer]

Also not a lot of specific guidance from the legislation as to what is an Approved safe for Cat A/B. Unlike Cat H that states it needs to be 6mm thick etc.
Does this mean that a lockable school locker will meet the regulations for Cat A/B or do I need something more substantial like a safe for the LGS?

That's odd, I'm sure I've seen specs somewhere, but you're right, I can't find anything just now.
https://www.police.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0003/131178/Safe_Storage_Level_1_Fact_Sheet.pdf
There is a link to an assessment tool, but it's broken.
https://www.police.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0009/422694/Reduce_Your_Risk_Brochure_Online.pdf
These guys have it though.
https://huntersandshooters.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/Reduce_Your_Risk_Brochure_Online.pdf

[Lsfan]

I haven't seen that assessment tool before. It's pretty good I reckon. Only question I find strange is no. 24. Are they referring to hand guns? Or is it more for people with say a single cab Ute that may need to store in the tray?

[Rider888]

Ok just confirming that a school type locker is good enough for Cat A/B storage?
Has anyone been doing this that has been inspected and passed without issues?

[bladeracer]

Ok just confirming that a school type locker is good enough for Cat A/B storage?
Has anyone been doing this that has been inspected and passed without issues?

A school locker does not look to me like the examples they give for approved safes.
Email the Registry and ask.

[Rider888]

Ok just confirming that a school type locker is good enough for Cat A/B storage?
Has anyone been doing this that has been inspected and passed without issues?

A school locker does not look to me like the examples they give for approved safes.
Email the Registry and ask.

OK wil do thank you

[dpskipper]

Ok just confirming that a school type locker is good enough for Cat A/B storage?
Has anyone been doing this that has been inspected and passed without issues?

you have to be kidding right??

[Larry]

School lockers and other like them are the example they use for what not to use. The latest storage requirements have an update for the minimum thickness of the steel to be used. I think from memory it is 1.6mm lockers are made of steel less than 1mm

[Bugman]

Look. a Few years back I had a regular safe inspection and where my rifle safes were, I had an old locker. The plod who inspected my set up was very thorough and queried the locker and I opened it and showed him what was inside. I had nothing to hide. Inside the locker, I had all me cleaning gear etc. His only remark was that if he had found any type of firearm in it then I would be in big strife as it definitely did not comply with NSW FAR storage regulations. ( but I already knew that ).

[Shootermick]

Ok just confirming that a school type locker is good enough for Cat A/B storage?
Has anyone been doing this that has been inspected and passed without issues?

I just read today that the school locker types are definitely not going to be a/b compliant by a certain date later this year, around August I think. In Victoria anyway, not sure about the other states. It has to be a purpose built safe, but all of the usual brands, even the budget type would probably meet the criteria.

[bladeracer]

Look. a Few years back I had a regular safe inspection and where my rifle safes were, I had an old locker. The plod who inspected my set up was very thorough and queried the locker and I opened it and showed him what was inside. I had nothing to hide. Inside the locker, I had all me cleaning gear etc. His only remark was that if he had found any type of firearm in it then I would be in big strife as it definitely did not comply with NSW FAR storage regulations. ( but I already knew that ).

If the locker is not part of your secure firearm storage then it is not within their remit to ask to inspect it.
I have several older safes that are not in use currently, two are no longer even bolted to the wall. One is useful to secure rifles in the vehicle when travelling.
My DFO was sensible enough not to ask about them since all my firearms were stored in the other safes that are compliant.

Having nothing to hide is not sufficient reason to allow Police to over-step the limited authority we give them.

[Lsfan]

School lockers and other like them are the example they use for what not to use. The latest storage requirements have an update for the minimum thickness of the steel to be used. I think from memory it is 1.6mm lockers are made of steel less than 1mm

I'm surprised I can't see a metal thickness specified for safes in nsw unless it's for cat c, d, h. It does however provide locking requirements and I agree, a school locker couldn't comply.

[Bugman]

All the plod did was query the locker. He did not ask to inspect it, I opened it as a courtesy on my own behalf. After all better to be straight forward.

[dnedative]

The 1996 legislation was written with the purpose of safe storage being primarily being to stop unauthorized access not to stop theft and it really hasn't ventured far from that since for A/B. Realistically, if you cant easily pry the door open on the locker then its no worse than the majority of safes people have - The majority of which have walls made from <2mm sheet steel which will stop someone with a cordless grinder for about 90 seconds.

[bladeracer]

All the plod did was query the locker. He did not ask to inspect it, I opened it as a courtesy on my own behalf. After all better to be straight forward.

Of course, but it's also good to keep them in their place, we don't want to train them to believe they can do whatever they want.

[Bugman]

Agreed.

[Rider888]

The 1996 legislation was written with the purpose of safe storage being primarily being to stop unauthorized access not to stop theft and it really hasn't ventured far from that since for A/B. Realistically, if you cant easily pry the door open on the locker then its no worse than the majority of safes people have - The majority of which have walls made from <2mm sheet steel which will stop someone with a cordless grinder for about 90 seconds.

Thank you. Just thought Id ask to be safe as I have heard of some who store rifles in lockers so wasn't sure if it was legal considering, as you've said, the guidelines doesnt really give you much except that it has to be wood or metal. Id, more than likely, be looking at getting 3 safes, one for each home.

[bladeracer]

Id, more than likely, be looking at getting 3 safes, one for each home.

Make sure you aren't stepping into a minefield there and that they will accept three storage addresses.
And that they allow storage in an uninhabited house.

[Rider888]

Id, more than likely, be looking at getting 3 safes, one for each home.

Make sure you aren't stepping into a minefield there and that they will accept three storage addresses.
And that they allow storage in an uninhabited house.

Will to thanks.

[Border_Bloke]

When we bought our present house (NSW), the previous owners had a school locker in the back shed which had obviously held a gun safe at some point. There was about a foot of concrete in the bottom of the locker with four dynabolts in it. The locker was also bolted to the steel shed frame with a single bolt.

Even with all that, it probably took me 6 minutes to pry it off the wall with a crowbar (as I couldn't access the nut) and move it out with a trolley. I later weighed it and it was over 100kg.

After seeing this video https://youtu.be/-RlwGkO0hxE of two guys tipping over a large safe gun and prying it open in 2 minutes I'd never neglect to bolt down a safe (there are other similar videos out there)

I recently moved a 200 kg jewelry safe off a trailer and into the shed all by myself using just a crowbar, furniture trolley and a wooden pallet (to cushion its fall from the trailer).

I'd always bolt it down (unless it was over 750 kg as previously stated).