Obsolete calibres

Questions about New South Wales gun and ammunition laws. NSW Firearms Act 1996.

Obsolete calibres

Post by Rutabaga » 11 Apr 2022, 6:46 pm

Hey guys,

I grew up watching Zulu so a long term fantasy of mine is to get a martini Henry in 577-450.

Looking over the NSW police information, it looks like you don't need a licence for rifles made before 1900 that are in an obsolete calibre https://www.police.nsw.gov.au/__data/as ... rearms.pdf

It looks like 577-450 is an obsolete calibre https://www.police.nsw.gov.au/__data/as ... ilable.pdf

It seems that a rifle that meets this definition does not require a licence at all to acquire, but a 'licence or permit' is required to operate it.

I'm confused about what a licence or permit means in this circumstance. Does this mean that if (for example) I bought an antique rifle without a PTA that I could fire it under my cat B licence, or would it be that if I intended to fire the rifle I would need to acquire it under a PTA?

Also, what are the storage requirements for antiques?
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Re: Obsolete calibres

Post by dnedative » 11 Apr 2022, 8:12 pm

Anyone can buy one, 577-450 Martini's are fine, I have it on record from the registry.
Need to be correctly licensed to shoot it, doesn't need to be registered, if your going to shoot it at a range probably dont tell them its unregistered though.
Needs to be stored the same as a Cat B firearm though, cant hang it on your wall.

Its the stupidest law known to man, you can have a criminal record as long as your arm and your free to purchase an antique but you need to have it locked up in a safe to prevent someone stealing it... something which anyone can buy, even children....?

Probably a year ago I imported a trigger and sear for a enfield percussion rifle from IMA without a import permit, border farce seized it and by the time everything was said and done it had ended up at the AG's legal office for a decision, I got my part in the end :)

NSW police said as its for a pre -1900 rifle its not a firearm therefore dont need import approval
BF said its a trigger so its a gun part
NSW police issued me an import permit ("I have an unregistered antique rifle I need to repair and need a import permit for some parts" ".........ahhhhh let me ask my supervisor") with essentially nothing on it for a trigger to suit my unregistered parts gun with no caliber, maker or serial number
BF said cool story but its after the fact so they will destroy my part
Queried them on why after the fact matters, why do NSW police say no approval needed and how can you seize a firearm part for something not legally a firearm due to its age.
BF called me and we argued on the phone
BF emailed me and said its gone to the AG for a decision
Part turned up 2 weeks later
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Re: Obsolete calibres

Post by Oldbloke » 11 Apr 2022, 9:06 pm

Classic example or.

1. The law is an ass
2. Power goes to dick heads head
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Re: Obsolete calibres

Post by dnedative » 11 Apr 2022, 9:38 pm

I can still remember exactly where I was on the side of the road when I was having that argument with that Border Force d**khead.
Bunch of f***ing idiots;


Staff in the NSW firearms registry however were fantastic to deal with and quite helpful, they might be slow on emails and getting back to you with answers that mean something but there is no attitude to deal with. Customs and border force are the worst.
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Re: Obsolete calibres

Post by Noisydad » 11 Apr 2022, 9:40 pm

Even more insane is that I could buy a .69 cal Brown Bess flintlock musket built in 1805 that’s in perfect working order without a license, PTA and not need to register it BUT if I bought a .69 cal Brown Bess flintlock musket made by Pedersoli just last Tuesday I would have be licensed and register it!
These are laws you get when bureaucrats have been smoking lawn clippings!
There's still a few of Wile. E Coyote's ideas that I haven't tried yet.
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Re: Obsolete calibres

Post by dnedative » 11 Apr 2022, 9:50 pm

I did ask the shop doing my last black powder transfer why my knock off 1850's front stuffing smoke pole was a cat B firearm when one of those straight pull 12 gauges is a cat A and if I had one old enough I dont even need to register it :lol:

Its probably best not to think about it.
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Re: Obsolete calibres

Post by Oldbloke » 12 Apr 2022, 6:33 am

Noisydad wrote:Even more insane is that I could buy a .69 cal Brown Bess flintlock musket built in 1805 that’s in perfect working order without a license, PTA and not need to register it BUT if I bought a .69 cal Brown Bess flintlock musket made by Pedersoli just last Tuesday I would have be licensed and register it!
These are laws you get when bureaucrats have been smoking lawn clippings!


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Re: Obsolete calibres

Post by bigrich » 12 Apr 2022, 7:30 am

The 450-577 needs a pta in Queensland as far as I know, but I can own antique swords in Queensland, in Victoria you need a license. Standard federal laws would simplify things.
On another post, I’ve been talking about a martini Enfield project . A smith I know, had a job on one of these, and to get the job done without the need for a pta cause the customer lived in Victoria, It had to be in a caliber not on “the list” that requires registration. So he put “30-purdey “ on the barrel. Which is 303 necked down to 30 cal ... :D
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Re: Obsolete calibres

Post by AS30N » 13 Apr 2022, 11:59 am

I had a few of these legally "off the book" long arms and some of those, whilst on the obsolete calibre list, brass can be had easily (43 Mauser/7.5*53.5 Swiss) but I usually ended up registering them because I wanted to shoot them.

The NSW law says " In the case of a firearm other than a pistol" , one day when I grow up, I will try and find a Maxim machine gun in 7.5*53.5
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Re: Obsolete calibres

Post by bigrich » 13 Apr 2022, 4:33 pm

AS30N wrote:I had a few of these legally "off the book" long arms and some of those, whilst on the obsolete calibre list, brass can be had easily (43 Mauser/7.5*53.5 Swiss) but I usually ended up registering them because I wanted to shoot them.

The NSW law says " In the case of a firearm other than a pistol" , one day when I grow up, I will try and find a Maxim machine gun in 7.5*53.5


a maxim :D believe it or not, a lot of WW2 era soviet stuff is out of mothballs in the ukraine at the moment . including water cooled maxims on their little carriages with the shields . there's stuff on youtube about it . one of the benefiets of the rimmed russian cartridge still being in use i guess :thumbsup:
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Re: Obsolete calibres

Post by dnedative » 13 Apr 2022, 8:58 pm

AS30N wrote:I had a few of these legally "off the book" long arms and some of those, whilst on the obsolete calibre list, brass can be had easily (43 Mauser/7.5*53.5 Swiss) but I usually ended up registering them because I wanted to shoot them.

The NSW law says " In the case of a firearm other than a pistol" , one day when I grow up, I will try and find a Maxim machine gun in 7.5*53.5


I've got a 1889 Schmidt Rubin; 7.5x55 chambers and the gun will fire it without exploding I'm told, the Swiss only authorised it as a last ditch measure.
Smith in the US on the cast boolit forum got one in that was a prick to cycle, bloke had put about 80 rounds of surplus GP11 before realising that you shouldn't need to beat the bolt open, it ended up bending the long bolt body which was a nice safe failure mode.

It also has a detachable box magazine that holds 12 rounds so if it was made >1900 it would be a prohibited weapon :)
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