Licence applications still in limbo more than a year later

[jwai86]

I applied for a provisional pistol licence in December 2020, and then a Category A/B licence in March 2021. It's now April 2022, and four escalations, many phone calls and a lot of waiting later, the Firearms Registry still hasn't gathered the motivation or courage to make a decision about my applications long after I provided them with the additional medical documents they requested.

Earlier this year, I purchased a CZ 75B pistol that is currently registered with my club. However, there's no certainty that I'll ever get to own it outright while I still have no licence. Meanwhile, other club members who applied for their provisional licences around the same time or later than I did now have their full Category H licence, or are close to getting there.

I previously requested the SSAA to write to the Firearms Registry when they publicly offered to follow up on members' outstanding applications, but nothing came of that. Various people have said to write to my state MP about my situation, but given how scared most of them are about firearms, I have no confidence that they will do anything to help.

[geoff]

If you are going to write to your MP, politely frame it from a perspective related to service delivery, not the firearms licence itself.

[on_one_wheel]

It's possible your persistence has been rewarded by your file being placed at the bottom of the stack. That's how many public servants operate when yhey get annoyed by someone.
You've got nothing to loose contacting your local MP, but definitely approach it as Geoff suggested.

[Bugman]

Problem could well be with the fact that you had to produce medical documents with your application. I don't know why you had to do that, and that is your business. Since some tragic events have unfolded recently, the NSW FAR are apparently very (if not overly), cautious and have been having a tendency to check, double check, and triple check before making a decision in such circumstances.
The one thing with approaching your local state MP, and I know this from experience, is that they tend to offer lip service etc, but when it comes to firearms/licences etc they still want to keep their distance.
Just the same, I hope it works out for you.

[jwai86]

Problem could well be with the fact that you had to produce medical documents with your application. I don't know why you had to do that, and that is your business. Since some tragic events have unfolded recently, the NSW FAR are apparently very (if not overly), cautious and have been having a tendency to check, double check, and triple check before making a decision in such circumstances.

It's definitely to do with the medical conditions that I disclosed in my applications. I disclosed them because I thought it was better to be up front about them instead of risking getting into a heap of trouble if I didn't mention them and the Registry found out about the omission.

I get that the Registry has been cautious after being raked over the coals for failings on their end, but they have failed to make any decision at all in relation to my applications. After repeatedly hassling them about it, Registry staff have created a number of escalations on their end to prioritise the processing of my applications, but they all seem to get buried without being actioned.

[jwai86]

Well crap. I received an email from the Firearms Registry today notifying me that my Category A/B licence application has been refused. I haven't received anything yet about my provisional pistol licence application, but that axe may have yet to fall.

The Registry stated in the email that the risk assessment report received from my psychiatrist mentioned that it is a possibility that if I get significantly depressed, I may relapse and be unable to form rational judgement. My psychiatrist stated in his report that there has never been any indication that I would pose a risk to public safety, but the Registry is of the opinion that it is not possible to eliminate the possibility in the future. It bothers me that the Registry has made its decision based on what they think I might do in the future, but that's really hard to argue against. There are avenues for appeal, but I would definitely require a lawyer, and there's only so much time and/or money that I am willing to sacrifice for what is ultimately a hobby or pastime.

A work colleague (and firearms owner) pointed out that it is peculiar that the Registry hasn't also sent a notice of refusal for my PPL application when she knows of people who applied for multiple categories and got refused all at once. However, I'm pessimistic about the odds of that meaning that my PPL application could be fully or even conditionally approved.

A fellow member of my pistol club said that he was knocked back for a Category A/B licence several years ago, but he holds a current Category H licence. I'm certain that his circumstances were significantly different, but he thought I was too hasty in applying for multiple licence categories, and questioned why I even need a Category A/B licence in the first place.

[Larry]

Sound a bit like the movie minority report. IMHO if they have knocked you back for cat A/B then you have buckleys of a cat H. Sorry to hear that mate you are right though at the end of the day is only a hobby not something you must have.

[jwai86]

Sound a bit like the movie minority report. IMHO if they have knocked you back for cat A/B then you have buckleys of a cat H. Sorry to hear that mate you are right though at the end of the day is only a hobby not something you must have.

The dark irony however is that my current mental health issues were triggered by the effective loss of an unrelated hobby a few years ago under acrimonious circumstances. However, the Registry is unlikely to care about that tiny bit of context.

[on_one_wheel]

Well crap. I received an email from the Firearms Registry today notifying me that my Category A/B licence application has been refused. I haven't received anything yet about my provisional pistol licence application, but that axe may have yet to fall.

The Registry stated in the email that the risk assessment report received from my psychiatrist mentioned that it is a possibility that if I get significantly depressed, I may relapse and be unable to form rational judgement. My psychiatrist stated in his report that there has never been any indication that I would pose a risk to public safety, but the Registry is of the opinion that it is not possible to eliminate the possibility in the future. It bothers me that the Registry has made its decision based on what they think I might do in the future, but that's really hard to argue against. There are avenues for appeal, but I would definitely require a lawyer, and there's only so much time and/or money that I am willing to sacrifice for what is ultimately a hobby or pastime.

A work colleague (and firearms owner) pointed out that it is peculiar that the Registry hasn't also sent a notice of refusal for my PPL application when she knows of people who applied for multiple categories and got refused all at once. However, I'm pessimistic about the odds of that meaning that my PPL application could be fully or even conditionally approved.

A fellow member of my pistol club said that he was knocked back for a Category A/B licence several years ago, but he holds a current Category H licence. I'm certain that his circumstances were significantly different, but he thought I was too hasty in applying for multiple licence categories, and questioned why I even need a Category A/B licence in the first place.

That's some pretty s**t news jawi86, obviously the police are being extremely cautious possibly even over cautious.
I wouldn't have thought that depression was something that puts the general public at risk.

If that were me, I would be getting into Archery and be getting my hands on a decent compound bow, a modern recurve bow and an English long bow. I'd be making my own arrows, quivers and finding archery clubs.

It's a shame that your psychiatrist didn't highlight or the Registry doesn't understand the true nature of your depression ... it was situational not clinical. That's a big difference.

[Fionn]

I may relapse and be unable to form rational judgement. My psychiatrist stated in his report that there has never been any indication that I would pose a risk to public safety, but the Registry is of the opinion that it is not possible to eliminate the possibility in the future.

It bothers me that the Registry has made its decision based on what they think I might do in the future, but that's really hard to argue against. There are avenues for appeal, but I would definitely require a lawyer, and there's only so much time and/or money that I am willing to sacrifice for what is ultimately a hobby or pastime.

By stating what your psychiatrist said above, they (your psychiatrist) are saying you are not suited to hold a firearms licence so the registry would have no choice but to refuse a licence.

You may not want to hear it but its a reasonable and correct call by them as someone who is under the care of a psychiatrist shouldn't be allowed to own or use firearms.

Wait a few years after you finish seeing your psychiatrist and if you haven't had a relapse, apply again if still interested.

[jwai86]

If that were me, I would be getting into Archery and be getting my hands on a decent compound bow, a modern recurve bow and an English long bow. I'd be making my own arrows, quivers and finding archery clubs.

I don't mean to dismiss your idea out of hand, but archery has never caught my interest. As weird as it sounds, if there is something I'm really interested in, I'd probably be doing it by now, but that list is unfortunately very narrow. Such is the curse of someone who is probably on the spectrum.

Anyway, I guess it's time to find a 'normal person' hobby. My folks have tried for years to get me to put on the lycra and join their road cycling group. Not that I intend to do so willingly of course. Perhaps what is needed is to see to it that the group doesn't invite me back if I am cajoled into doing so

[jwai86]

You may not want to hear it but its a reasonable and correct call by them as someone who is under the care of a psychiatrist shouldn't be allowed to own or use firearms.

Wait a few years after you finish seeing your psychiatrist and if you haven't had a relapse, apply again if still interested.

I was aware of the risk of being refused when I applied, but what hurts more is that the Registry had the risk assessment report since May-June 2021, temporarily lost the information for a time, and kept giving me the run around about (not) processing my applications.

I don't know if I would try applying again in the future after being burned by this experience. Apparently I'm not allowed to do things that might keep me from spiralling into serious medical trouble.

[Fionn]

I was aware of the risk of being refused when I applied, but what hurts more is that the Registry had the risk assessment report since May-June 2021, temporarily lost the information for a time, and kept giving me the run around about (not) processing my applications.

I don't know if I would try applying again in the future after being burned by this experience. Apparently I'm not allowed to do things that might keep me from spiralling into serious medical trouble.

Don't you work for a government department/agency? You should know what to expect and the reasons why it took so long.

Being under the treatment of a psychiatrist (or recently) pretty much means a refusal these days in all cases.

[jwai86]

Don't you work for a government department/agency? You should know what to expect and the reasons why it took so long.

I do, but where I am, things don't get left undone and repeatedly buried in internal systems without managers asking uncomfortable questions well before a year or more passes.

[Fionn]

Don't you work for a government department/agency? You should know what to expect and the reasons why it took so long.

I do, but where I am, things don't get left undone and repeatedly buried in internal systems without managers asking uncomfortable questions well before a year or more passes.

Ah OK you're fairly low level if that's the case, these types of decisions are made further up the chain where accountability isn't something you like to put your name on lightly in Government.

[jwai86]

I called the registry yesterday about the status of my PPL application because it still appears to be undecided when I checked their website. They have raised yet another escalation as because they said the application was closed on their end. I'll be seeing the process through to the bitter end.

Meanwhile, I guess I'm going to have to find myself a 'normal person' kind of hobby. My folks have tried for years to get me to put on the Lycra and go road cycling with their group of fellow senior citizens. I have always refused, but if I'm forced to go, I will likely see to it that they won't ask again. It's not like I don't have lots of experience with being rude, unfriendly and generally insufferable

[bladeracer]

I called the registry yesterday about the status of my PPL application because it still appears to be undecided when I checked their website. They have raised yet another escalation as because they said the application was closed on their end. I'll be seeing the process through to the bitter end.

Meanwhile, I guess I'm going to have to find myself a 'normal person' kind of hobby. My folks have tried for years to get me to put on the Lycra and go road cycling with their group of fellow senior citizens. I have always refused, but if I'm forced to go, I will likely see to it that they won't ask again. It's not like I don't have lots of experience with being rude, unfriendly and generally insufferable

What sort of interests do you have? Since you probably like the bush, have you tried rogaining or orienteering? I think some even combine this with mountain bikes? If you're into motor sports, Enduro is sort of orienteering on dirt bikes I think, never tried it myself but had mates that did it.

Or volunteering with bush groups, like Landcare (Rose and I are members), or various "friends" groups that look after local bush areas, counting and identifying wildlife and flora, weeding and planting and such - or just start your own group if there isn't one. Personally, I always feel something is missing when I'm in the bush without a rifle, but I still love being out there. Rose and I were going to go bush this arvo to replace rat-chewed wiring on an electric deer fence but the wet weather makes 4x4 access difficult, so we'll give it a few days to dry out. If it stays wet we'll have to trek in soon as they want to start planting native seedlings in a few weeks. A vehicle gets us to 600m of where we need to be. It's pretty steep country so without the vehicle it's a couple of kilometers walk in.

Years ago I knew a guy that was a gung ho hang-glider. That involved him launching from somewhere and flying an hour or two to the next checkpoint while we drove each stage. More of a workout for the ground team than the pilot I found. Skydiving is a bit more centralised I think, take off, then try to beat the aircraft back to the airfield.

You could try the Army Reserve perhaps?

[jwai86]

Since you probably like the bush, have you tried rogaining or orienteering? I think some even combine this with mountain bikes? If you're into motor sports, Enduro is sort of orienteering on dirt bikes I think, never tried it myself but had mates that did it.

Or volunteering with bush groups, like Landcare (Rose and I are members), or various "friends" groups that look after local bush areas, counting and identifying wildlife and flora, weeding and planting and such - or just start your own group if there isn't one. Personally, I always feel something is missing when I'm in the bush without a rifle, but I still love being out there. Rose and I were going to go bush this arvo to replace rat-chewed wiring on an electric deer fence but the wet weather makes 4x4 access difficult, so we'll give it a few days to dry out. If it stays wet we'll have to trek in soon as they want to start planting native seedlings in a few weeks. A vehicle gets us to 600m of where we need to be. It's pretty steep country so without the vehicle it's a couple of kilometers walk in.

As strange as it sounds, I'm not an outdoors person by any stretch. All the shooting I've done has been at indoor ranges.

I've previously written about the (now dead) prospect of going hunting, but going out into the bush to do that would be because that's where the animals are, rather than any great love for the outdoors.

As for biking, I have an e-bike but I purchased that more as a practical means of transport than anything else. I already get grief from my parents for not using a 'real' bicycle. I don't need to hear more of the same from random bicycle snobs. They can go play with the traffic in Sydney for all I care.

You could try the Army Reserve perhaps?

I wouldn't have made the cut when I was younger, so I definitely won't now.

[bladeracer]

As strange as it sounds, I'm not an outdoors person by any stretch. All the shooting I've done has been at indoor ranges.

I've previously written about the (now dead) prospect of going hunting, but going out into the bush to do that would be because that's where the animals are, rather than any great love for the outdoors.

As for biking, I have an e-bike but I purchased that more as a practical means of transport than anything else. I already get grief from my parents for not using a 'real' bicycle. I don't need to hear more of the same from random bicycle snobs. They can go play with the traffic in Sydney for all I care.

You could try the Army Reserve perhaps?

I wouldn't have made the cut when I was younger, so I definitely won't now.

Oh, okay
Before I injured my right hand in 1990, squash was a great workout, and my business partner played badminton for years.

[jwai86]

I haven't bothered with sporting activities (apart from shooting) in ages. Growing up being forever picked last for team sports and receiving next to no positive encouragement has done little to engender interest in such pursuits.

[Larry]

Mate dont give up, I wouldnt push them too hard for an answer as the easiest answer is no, putting all the onus on you if you want to dispute the answer.

As an aside what about Blacksmithing or Bladesmithing are you any good with you hands? Do you like building making things big or small?

[bladeracer]

I haven't bothered with sporting activities (apart from shooting) in ages. Growing up being forever picked last for team sports and receiving next to no positive encouragement has done little to engender interest in such pursuits.

I never saw any value in team sports, or any sport that isn't improving your real-world skills or your overall health and state of mind. I think most team sports were invented purely to wear kids out so they didn't fiddle with themselves so much, seems to me these sports attract the most wankers though.

Squash, tennis, badminton were sports that I found require self-discipline, you can hit the ball or cock hard but you also need to finesse it to have control over it (something I could no longer do after running the circular saw through my wrist). Similar to motorcycle racing and shooting, you can't just go at at like a bull at a gate, you have to think ahead and weigh up the consequences of every move, in real time. Building roofs is great for physical strength but we wanted something faster to get our heart rates up when we had a day off.

Shooting doesn't have much of a fitness element to it unless you're hunting (not sitting in a blind) or doing IPSC. That's why I hate seeing shooting clubs trying to get kids involved when all they offer is sitting at a bench for half the day, kids need movement and immediate satisfaction, not twenty minutes sitting on their bum waiting to find out if they're hitting anything.

As a kid I preferred reading, model building, wargaming, shooting in the back yard (I started at 13 in air-rifle competition), or just being in the bush exploring and doing nothing much else

In school I enjoyed archery, athletics and cross-country running, and tried to get out of most of the other crap they wanted me to do - soccer, football, cricket and such. I don't feel any need to compete against anybody but myself.

[jwai86]

Mate dont give up, I wouldnt push them too hard for an answer as the easiest answer is no, putting all the onus on you if you want to dispute the answer.

I felt that that following up on the application was the right thing to do because if I tried to continue shooting under a P650 hoping that the Registry wouldn't notice the discrepancy, that could easily end badly for myself and the club.

As an aside what about Blacksmithing or Bladesmithing are you any good with you hands? Do you like building making things big or small?

I was engaged in miniature wargaming for a long time, but certain events a few years ago caused my gaming circles to suddenly collapse, which contributed towards a downward spiral in my mental health which has yet to be completely rectified. It feels horribly aimless and hollow to continue buying and building models at home because there's nothing to look forward to, but I keep doing it because it's preferable to completely giving up and sinking into more despair.

I took up shooting in late 2020 hoping to move on by doing something else as a hobby, but that appears to no longer be an option after more than a year of being given the run around by the Registry.

[bladeracer]

I was engaged in miniature wargaming for a long time, but certain events a few years ago caused my gaming circles to suddenly collapse, which contributed towards a downward spiral in my mental health which has yet to be completely rectified. It feels horribly aimless and hollow to continue buying and building models at home because there's nothing to look forward to, but I keep doing it because it's preferable to completely giving up and sinking into more despair.

I took up shooting in late 2020 hoping to move on by doing something else as a hobby, but that appears to no longer be an option after more than a year of being given the run around by the Registry.

I never got into miniatures but spent about $6000 on Advanced Squadleader thirty-plus years ago, a very complex boardgame covering every possible theatre of WW2, and since extended into other eras as well. It has a very strong basis in historical accuracy and does particularly well at giving each nationality their own distinct historical characteristics.
https://mmpgamers.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=2

With computers and the internet a guy developed something called VASL, or virtual ASL that allows the game to be played either in real-time across the world or via email. I used to play with guys across Australia, Europe and the US, one guy in Belgium was great fun. Oddly enough, I also played a lot by email with a guy that only lived a few minutes from me, neither of us were good at fitting into other people's schedules. Vassal has since grown to encompass virtually any board game ever invented.
https://vassalengine.org/wiki/Category:Modules

A mate when I was studying was very heavily into Warhammer, and had cupboards full of painstakingly-painted miniatures. I never could get into sci-fi or fantasy stuff though.

Model building developed that same pointlessness after a few years for me as I never did anything with them once they were built. As I was nearing the end of model making I was enjoying building full-scale models of a wide variety of firearms. They weren't aesthetic models like vehicles and aircraft but perfectly replicated the internal mechanism so were great for learning and seeing how they worked. I assume they're still produced but they wouldn't be legal in Victoria now anyway.

I'm waiting on plans that I have read were put together for building a replica Bren Gun carrier for reenactors. I'm hoping I won't be disappointed with them as I really only need dimensions to build one for myself. I heard last week that a guy that lives minutes from me owns a Carrier, though I haven't found out as yet if he still has it.

My brother was pretty involved in RPG's during and after university, but I think now most of that gang grew up and got lives

[jwai86]

With computers and the internet a guy developed something called VASL, or virtual ASL that allows the game to be played either in real-time across the world or via email. I used to play with guys across Australia, Europe and the US, one guy in Belgium was great fun. Oddly enough, I also played a lot by email with a guy that only lived a few minutes from me, neither of us were good at fitting into other people's schedules. Vassal has since grown to encompass virtually any board game ever invented.

I've heard of Vassal before, but only in passing.

A mate when I was studying was very heavily into Warhammer, and had cupboards full of painstakingly-painted miniatures. I never could get into sci-fi or fantasy stuff though.

I have a wide variety of tastes in the miniatures scene, but WW2 in 15mm scale was my bread and butter for many years.

Model building developed that same pointlessness after a few years for me as I never did anything with them once they were built.

The distant hope is that I can use my miniatures again if I can find another bunch of players, but I have yet to succeed even before COVID complicated things further.

[bladeracer]

Early on they did some modules called Deluxe ASL, with hexes I think 2.5 times larger, the boards are tiny but each hex has room to do things within it that aren't practical at the normal scale. That was suited to 1:285 scale miniatures. I came close to getting into them - https://www.ghqmodels.com/collections/1-285-6mm-scale - but the cost would be astronomical due to the vast array of vehicles and units encompassed by the game. And they're really only suited to face-to-face play which I've always struggled with. That works better if you associate with people either through the same study or work environment I think, or join a dedicated group that gets together regularly to play, but you still have to be able to set aside time to meet up. Being self-employed and racing bikes I was always either working (a lot of self-employment happens after hours at home, like quoting, ordering, invoicing and paperwork) or getting a bike ready in my spare time. I think if you want to play face-to-face games nowadays you pretty much have to join or start a group. A shop in Perth used to run regular game nights. ASL is a big game though, where a scenario covering twenty minutes real time might take five hours to play. Some of the bigger historical modules can take months and years to play through.

Email play worked best for me as I could play my turn whenever I had a few minutes, then go through their turn at my convenience as well. With VASL you play your turn and it writes a file in sequence. When you finish your turn you email that file to your opponent and they go through it one move at a time making whatever responses they need to. Sometimes they do something that requires you to respond to, so they stop the game there and send you the new file back. It works remarkably well. VASL only manages the game, it doesn't do anything within the game. The computer game Steel Panthers was probably the closest computer attempt at ASL, although Combat Mission came close also. When Steel Panthers III fell through, the people that had worked so hard to produce it completed it anyway and released it free to the public as Steel Panthers: World at War - it's still available online - https://www.shrapnelgames.com/Camo_Workshop/WW2/WW2_page.html

I never got into miniatures though, the guy I knew in Perth had trunks he'd have to cart around to play somewhere other than his own gaming room - that would be a pain.

With computers and the internet a guy developed something called VASL, or virtual ASL that allows the game to be played either in real-time across the world or via email. I used to play with guys across Australia, Europe and the US, one guy in Belgium was great fun. Oddly enough, I also played a lot by email with a guy that only lived a few minutes from me, neither of us were good at fitting into other people's schedules. Vassal has since grown to encompass virtually any board game ever invented.

I've heard of Vassal before, but only in passing.

A mate when I was studying was very heavily into Warhammer, and had cupboards full of painstakingly-painted miniatures. I never could get into sci-fi or fantasy stuff though.

I have a wide variety of tastes in the miniatures scene, but WW2 in 15mm scale was my bread and butter for many years.

Model building developed that same pointlessness after a few years for me as I never did anything with them once they were built.

The distant hope is that I can use my miniatures again if I can find another bunch of players, but I have yet to succeed even before COVID complicated things further.

[bladeracer]

A very quick Google of gaming groups found quite a few.
These look like a couple of handy start points.
https://www.sutherlandshiregamers.org/club-activities/
https://www.meetup.com/en-AU/topics/wargames/

[jwai86]

I know the Sutherland Shire Gamers club. I regularly attend their annual convention over the October long weekend when it isn't getting cancelled by COVID. However, their weekly gaming sessions are impractical for me to get to. Travelling to their venue by car is at least 45 minutes each way, and that's if I'm paying tolls for the shorter route.

[bladeracer]

I know the Sutherland Shire Gamers club. I regularly attend their annual convention over the October long weekend when it isn't getting cancelled by COVID. However, their weekly gaming sessions are impractical for me to get to. Travelling to their venue by car is at least 45 minutes each way, and that's if I'm paying tolls for the shorter route.

Yes, face-to-face is difficult if your gang aren't local.
Do they have a forum you can ask about local people perhaps?

[Fionn]

I know the Sutherland Shire Gamers club. I regularly attend their annual convention over the October long weekend when it isn't getting cancelled by COVID. However, their weekly gaming sessions are impractical for me to get to. Travelling to their venue by car is at least 45 minutes each way, and that's if I'm paying tolls for the shorter route.

From an outsider and what little you have posted, your depression is very evident.

One question how did you get the P650? as you should have been ineligible?

While I commend you for following up about you pistol licence status, you may be blindly walking yourself into a very serious offence here.