Moving to NSW

[Biscuits]

I'm doing a "soft move" from the UK to Sydney over the next 15 months or so. ie I'll be spending less time in the UK and more time in NSW. I'm in NSW now and am here enough that I can apply for a NSW firearms licence (I checked with the police about this; they seem to think I would now be considered resident in NSW; I have NSW driving licence, am on electoral roll, am already in NSW a lot of the time etc).

Anyway, I have about 10 guns in the UK on my UK licence. 3 of them are semi-automatics, so they will have to go bye bye, but I wanted to ask about PTAs and importing the remaining firearms from the UK to NSW, once I have a NSW licence.

I have just done the safe shooters course*, I'll join SSAA sometime in the next month. I do not have a NSW licence yet and I have not applied for a NSW licence yet.

So, I'd like to bring 7 firearms into NSW around January next year and put them on my NSW licence. 2 would be Category A and 5 would be Category B.

- When should I apply for a NSW firearms licence? Now? A bit later in the year?
- Do the police/firearms registry want to inspect your safe?
- Can the safe be visible in the house, or does it need to be out of sight in the house?
- Do the police/firearms registry interview you, to check you don't seem like a nutter?
- Can I ask for 7 PTAs at once, when I get my NSW licence, so all 7 guns can come over at the one time?
- Do I need to go to Service NSW to have my photo taken? I had a photo taken there late last year for the driving licence.
- Are the police/firearms registry likely to ask me for a UK criminal record check?
- Is there any way for recreational shooters to own suppressors in NSW?.... I own some suppressors on my UK licence as well as the 7 firearms I want to bring in to NSW.

* side topic, but having owned guns for a while overseas and being a range officer overseas, I didn't think the safe shooters course would make anybody who hadn't shot before particularly safe and definitely not as safe as being shown what to do with a live firearm and ammunition on a live range.

[bladeracer]

So, I'd like to bring 7 firearms into NSW around January next year and put them on my NSW licence. 2 would be Category A and 5 would be Category B.

- When should I apply for a NSW firearms licence? Now? A bit later in the year?
- Do the police/firearms registry want to inspect your safe?
- Can the safe be visible in the house, or does it need to be out of sight in the house?
- Do the police/firearms registry interview you, to check you don't seem like a nutter?
- Can I ask for 7 PTAs at once, when I get my NSW licence, so all 7 guns can come over at the one time?
- Do I need to go to Service NSW to have my photo taken? I had a photo taken there late last year for the driving licence.
- Are the police/firearms registry likely to ask me for a UK criminal record check?
- Is there any way for recreational shooters to own suppressors in NSW?.... I own some suppressors on my UK licence as well as the 7 firearms I want to bring in to NSW.

* side topic, but having owned guns for a while overseas and being a range officer overseas, I didn't think the safe shooters course would make anybody who hadn't shot before particularly safe and definitely not as safe as being shown what to do with a live firearm and ammunition on a live range.

Apply immediately, it can take a while to come through, particularly if they need to do international background checks.
Police will want to inspect your secure storage at some point.
I don't know that there is any law against it being visible, but it wouldn't be advised and could risk being knocked back.
Never heard of interviews but the background check is pretty thorough.
No on the suppressors, unless you have an extraordinarily good reason for needing them.
No idea about the safe shooter's course, never heard of that and never done it. Only handling test I've ever done was holster qualification for IPSC decades ago.

[No1_49er]

The first port of call for your firearms, when they hit the Australian shores, is with Customs.

They will ensure that the trigger mechanism is safe by performing a "drop test". Oh yes, that is for real and there is a prescribed method!
But, if you can prove that the rifle is exclusively a 'target rifle' they may not perform the test. They have been known to break stocks.

And, that such mundane things as a red "danger" indicator of some sort actually exists on the safety mechanism. In the case of milsurps, that may be as simple as applying bright red finger-nail polish, or some such material, to the safety.

Contact 'Border Force' - Customs, and speak with somebody knowledgeable of the importation of (used) firearms.

[straightshooter]

To obtain a NSW licence you will need to do a firearms safety course and then a further competence test.
You will need to be a member of a registered club for target shooting and for hunting a member of a hunting club or own rural property or have written permission to hunt on a rural property.
As for the firearms you wish to import, if they are not very expensive, rare or hold great sentimental value then consider selling them in the UK and replacing like for like when you are permanently settled here. You can easily remove all the accessories, such as scopes and mounts, and bring them with you as they will not pose a problem with importation. You might be shocked by the bureaucracy and cost of personally importing firearms at both ends.
Talk to a NSW dealer prepared to import and a UK dealer prepared to export.
Lastly, don't trust any internet advice, including mine.

[Lsfan]

He said he has done the safe shooters course, which for me it was a multiple choice test at a gun shop. Following that was the application online with supporting docs, then eventually you get a photo notification in the mail. You then go to services nsw to get your photo taken.
Like others say, do it now. There's another thread about waiting times and some have waited more than a year. From memory mine was around 10 months.

[Larry]

Yes just like when you applied for residency they will ask you for a police check in every country you have lived for more than **** months. But you should have done this already. Best to apply for your license ASAP while all these checks are still within their validity time.
Yes you can apply for multiple PTAs at the same time.
Where you involved in any comps in the UK the UK NRA would be able to help you exporting the rifles they help members all the time that travel overseas for comps.

[Biscuits]

Yes just like when you applied for residency they will ask you for a police check in every country you have lived for more than **** months. .

I’m an Aus citizen, so never had to do a AU police check before. Do you know how long you can have been/lived somewhere without having do get a criminal record check? U.K. is a definite but there could be other countries depending on what NSW police want.

I am a U.K. NRA member.

The only reason I asked when I should apply, is AFAIK once I get the NSW licence, even if there aren’t firearms registered on it, I still have the usage requirements, ie I’d have to rent/borrow a gun and go shoot it 4 times. Unless I can talk to the firearms registry to relax the usage requirement until I have firearms on my licence.

Just as an aside the British police did not ask for an Australian criminal record check, even though I’m an Aus citizen and have liven in Australia for more years than I’ve lived in the U.K.

—.

The red fire indicator sounds painful. I think I read about that before and that red nail polish was the work around….

[Biscuits]

The first port of call for your firearms, when they hit the Australian shores, is with Customs.

They will ensure that the trigger mechanism is safe by performing a "drop test". Oh yes, that is for real and there is a prescribed method!
But, if you can prove that the rifle is exclusively a 'target rifle' they may not perform the test. They have been known to break stocks.

?!?!?!?!

I had an idea to leave the scopes on the rifles, to avoid messing around and rezeroing. But maybe that's not a good idea if someone is going to drop it.

---

Going back to the logistics of bringing the firearms to Australia, once I have a NSW licence:

Can I get multiple PTAs at once?

With the PTAs in hand, can I travel with, say, 2 of the firearms on a regular scheduled flight to Sydney, get some AU firearms dealer in/near Sydney airport to put them on a NSW licence on my arrival and leave the airport with them? This would like be the two with the most expensive scope/firearm/accessories.

If I apply for a NSW licence now, do I have to have my photo taken by Service NSW as soon as I get the letter, or can I wait? Can they reuse my driving licence photo which was taken in Nov 2021?
I will only be in Sydney over April, so with the 30 day cool off period, NSW police won't even look at the application until I'm overseas again. I am able receive snail mail when I'm overseas and I will be coming back to NSW in a few months (prior to the full move), but I would rather not need to make a special trip to have my photo taken.

[Larry]

As far as the photo is concerned you will need a new photo they will not reuse a photo they have on file from an old shooters license or a drivers license. You only have 2 weeks from receiving the letter to get your photo taken at a photo point like NSW roads and a few post offices.

[Lsfan]

Yes just like when you applied for residency they will ask you for a police check in every country you have lived for more than **** months. .

I’m an Aus citizen, so never had to do a AU police check before. Do you know how long you can have been/lived somewhere without having do get a criminal record check? U.K. is a definite but there could be other countries depending on what NSW police want.

I am a U.K. NRA member.

The only reason I asked when I should apply, is AFAIK once I get the NSW licence, even if there aren’t firearms registered on it, I still have the usage requirements, ie I’d have to rent/borrow a gun and go shoot it 4 times. Unless I can talk to the firearms registry to relax the usage requirement until I have firearms on my licence.

Just as an aside the British police did not ask for an Australian criminal record check, even though I’m an Aus citizen and have liven in Australia for more years than I’ve lived in the U.K.

—.

The red fire indicator sounds painful. I think I read about that before and that red nail polish was the work around….

You make a good point. Having a licence for target shooting means you need 4 visits per year to a registered range or event to maintain the licence. If you get your licence too early you may miss the opportunity to get 4 visits within the year. They have relaxed it a little recently due to covid and the difficulty getting to a range with restrictions in place.
Not really sure what the requirements are at the moment but I just renewed my ssaa membership and normally I'm required to send 4 receipts from the range. This time I didn't.

[bladeracer]

The only reason I asked when I should apply, is AFAIK once I get the NSW licence, even if there aren’t firearms registered on it, I still have the usage requirements, ie I’d have to rent/borrow a gun and go shoot it 4 times. Unless I can talk to the firearms registry to relax the usage requirement until I have firearms on my licence.

I had this discussion last week on an FB forum.
If you use a property for your genuine reason there are no attendance requirements in NSW.
If you use a hunting club or a competition club for your genuine reason then you do have required attendances.

If you don't actually own any firearms I don't believe there are any attendance requirements, but I don't know if the Registry is set up to know that you have no firearms. You might risk getting a letter about it and not responding in time.

So, I would chase up a property letter and use that to only support Hunting as your genuine reason. But being out of the country may be sufficient excuse to request an exemption for that reason. On the other hand, if you're away more than you're here they may not want you to retain a licence.

[Gamerancher]

As your firearms are not registered in Australia, you will have to go through the hoops of importing firearms. That means export permits from the country of origin, import paperwork ( B709a ) and a willing dealer in NSW to pick them up from Borderforce/customs and register them in NSW. You can them obtain them with valid PTA's.
That can add up in $ terms, most exporter/importers don't mind charging exorbitant amounts for this type of service. There is also GST to be paid on the value of the firearm, that also includes cost of postage, which adds more to the import cost. So if these are rifles than can be easily obtained new or second-hand here, it may not be worth the exercise.
I have a rifle in the U.S that I leave there for competition shooting. With all of the Covaids travel restriction crap I thought I might bring it home, I was quoted a cost of around $1800. It's staying there.

[bladeracer]

As your firearms are not registered in Australia, you will have to go through the hoops of importing firearms. That means export permits from the country of origin, import paperwork ( B709a ) and a willing dealer in NSW to pick them up from Borderforce/customs and register them in NSW. You can them obtain them with valid PTA's.
That can add up in $ terms, most exporter/importers don't mind charging exorbitant amounts for this type of service. There is also GST to be paid on the value of the firearm, that also includes cost of postage, which adds more to the import cost. So if these are rifles than can be easily obtained new or second-hand here, it may not be worth the exercise.
I have a rifle in the U.S that I leave there for competition shooting. With all of the Covaids travel restriction crap I thought I might bring it home, I was quoted a cost of around $1800. It's staying there.

You don't need an importer, you can do it all yourself, but you need a dealer's licence on the B709, and I believe that specific dealer will have to collect them from Border Force.

I don't know that Police will give you a B709 to import firearms you aren't licenced to own though.

There are exorbitant export fees to bring firearms out of the US, I don't know what they're like out of the UK. I bought two out of South Africa and the export fee for one or two was the same, it might be the same if you bring several firearms out of the UK as well. If you already own them though there may not be any export fees involved. There are no import fees.

[Bugman]

I would suggest that you talk to an experienced importer of firearms and get some details of cost involved. I wanted to bring in a DB shotgun from the US, that I came across while travelling there. This was some time back, but even then the paperwork, wait time etc and the cost (got quotes from I think around 3 agencies that handled that type of import trans action). The cost killed it. But that is my experience in these matters. The shottie would have originally cost me $A700 at the time and eventually would have cost me $2100.
Still have the quotes.

[bladeracer]

I would suggest that you talk to an experienced importer of firearms and get some details of cost involved. I wanted to bring in a DB shotgun from the US, that I came across while travelling there. This was some time back, but even then the paperwork, wait time etc and the cost (got quotes from I think around 3 agencies that handled that type of import trans action). The cost killed it. But that is my experience in these matters. The shottie would have originally cost me $A700 at the time and eventually would have cost me $2100.
Still have the quotes.

If you use an importer the cost will be horrendous.
Buying a firearm out of the US adds about $2000 to the cost of it by the time you receive it due to their export charges. That's doing it yourself, using an importer would add a lot more to it. You should've priced up doing it yourself.

I found a rifle in the US for $900, but it would've been $3000 to reach me even doing it myself. Out of South Africa I bought two of them for under $2000 in my hands. This was four years ago. Took five months from the day I won the auction to the day I had them in hand.

[Bill]

Hit this fella up if you want the reality of importing your rifles from the the UK

http://rhinosport.com.au/index.html

[Biscuits]

AFAIK there is no export charge out of the UK. There may be no GST or other import duties in Aus, as these are personal items which are normally exempt from GST if you move to Australia. But I'll research it.

On the usage requirements once I have a NSW licence but without any guns on the licence:
- Does the 4 uses a year mean a calendar year, a rolling year or something else?
- Does overseas use of firearms count?

[bladeracer]

AFAIK there is no export charge out of the UK. There may be no GST or other import duties in Aus, as these are personal items which are normally exempt from GST if you move to Australia. But I'll research it.

On the usage requirements once I have a NSW licence but without any guns on the licence:
- Does the 4 uses a year mean a calendar year, a rolling year or something else?
- Does overseas use of firearms count?

I think it's calendar year as I see people talk about having to complete them by a certain date. In the old days we had to attend every eight weeks minimum to maintain a pistol licence, I was living and working 3300kms from home for three years, so I flew back to Perth every second month for a night or two. Nowadays I think you can do the year's attendance all in one blast then do nothing for most of the year.

I suspect not because you're trying to prove to our Police that you need an Australian licence. But ask the Registry and your club.

[Larry]

I would fly out with your favorite two guns bring them with you see the UK NRA for details. Use shooting in a comp as the reason. When you are here put your two guns into storage with a dealer. Then go about getting the PTA and then you can get the guns out of storage and transferred to yourself. Get your license done first.

[bladeracer]

I would fly out with your favorite two guns bring them with you see the UK NRA for details. Use shooting in a comp as the reason. When you are here put your two guns into storage with a dealer. Then go about getting the PTA and then you can get the guns out of storage and transferred to yourself. Get your license done first.

Is this legal though?
I thought when you bring firearms into Oz as a visitor you sign something that requires you take them out again when you leave?

[Lsfan]

AFAIK there is no export charge out of the UK. There may be no GST or other import duties in Aus, as these are personal items which are normally exempt from GST if you move to Australia. But I'll research it.

On the usage requirements once I have a NSW licence but without any guns on the licence:
- Does the 4 uses a year mean a calendar year, a rolling year or something else?
- Does overseas use of firearms count?

I think it's calendar year as I see people talk about having to complete them by a certain date. In the old days we had to attend every eight weeks minimum to maintain a pistol licence, I was living and working 3300kms from home for three years, so I flew back to Perth every second month for a night or two. Nowadays I think you can do the year's attendance all in one blast then do nothing for most of the year.

I suspect not because you're trying to prove to our Police that you need an Australian licence. But ask the Registry and your club.

Yes it's a calendar year effective from when you renew your membership and yes you can do 4 visits in succession within 1 week if you like.
The attendance record is required for me to maintain my SSAA membership and having the SSAA membership is required to maintain my licence with the registry.

[Biscuits]

I'm thinking the hunting with land permission might be the easiest to just get the firearms licence. Then join SSAA after I have the licence and get target added.

This is dependent on the minimum land size though. My aunt owns about 40 acres / 16ha near Newcastle which I could use as a location with permission. But is that big enough a size of land?

[bladeracer]

I'm thinking the hunting with land permission might be the easiest to just get the firearms licence. Then join SSAA after I have the licence and get target added.

This is dependent on the minimum land size though. My aunt owns about 40 acres / 16ha near Newcastle which I could use as a location with permission. But is that big enough a size of land?

No minimum property size, just has to be rural zoned.

[Lsfan]

I'm thinking the hunting with land permission might be the easiest to just get the firearms licence. Then join SSAA after I have the licence and get target added.

This is dependent on the minimum land size though. My aunt owns about 40 acres / 16ha near Newcastle which I could use as a location with permission. But is that big enough a size of land?

No minimum property size, just has to be rural zoned.

I've often wondered about that and have read different opinions. Some have related it to the effective range of different calibres and then it also comes down to whether you have neighbours nearby who could complain.
Are you saying if you have 5 acres of rural land with no neighbours in sight, you can legally fire any calibre rifle on your property?

[bladeracer]

I'm thinking the hunting with land permission might be the easiest to just get the firearms licence. Then join SSAA after I have the licence and get target added.

This is dependent on the minimum land size though. My aunt owns about 40 acres / 16ha near Newcastle which I could use as a location with permission. But is that big enough a size of land?

No minimum property size, just has to be rural zoned.

I've often wondered about that and have read different opinions. Some have related it to the effective range of different calibres and then it also comes down to whether you have neighbours nearby who could complain.
Are you saying if you have 5 acres of rural land with no neighbours in sight, you can legally fire any calibre rifle on your property?

As long as it's safe to do so that is what the law allows. We discussed this at length last year I think and nobody was able to find any law preventing it. There are lots of other laws that could cause issues, safety of other people being the main ones. But it's your property and you can legally do anything that is lawfully allowed on it, including shooting.

[Lsfan]

Fair enough. I suppose if something goes wrong or if someone complains about noise or feeling unsafe as a neighbour, that would be a different story.

[Biscuits]

Spoke to my aunt. She’s happy to give me shooting permission on her property. Two of her kids = my cousins have firearms and have shot there already.

Is it relatively straightforward to join SSAA NSW in the new year and have target added to an existing licence where hunting is the good reason?