Grey Topic of Discussion

[Rider888]

Would like to open this topic for discussion:

there is a lot of grey discussion out there and I was hoping to get some clarification from the FAR regarding Participation shoots.

Section 105 of the ACT states that:
(a) during a compliance period in which the person has only 1 kind of pistol—the person must participate in at least 6 shooting activities of an approved pistol club that are competitive shooting matches etc

That seems clear enough but I find myself in discussions regularly on this and this is the conjecture:
For H-Cat and you own 1 kind of pistol, you have to do 6 shoots a year, that means that if you do not own any firearms or have no firearms registered in your name, you DO NOT have to meet the 6 shoot requirement?

That is where many are confused as the Act does not call this fact out that many will have a Cat-H but not own a firearm.

Hoping for some clarification with supporting documentations supporting and not just another person's opinion as that is too subjective as it is. Surely local clubs cannot make up their own rules and have to follow the requirements laid down in the ACT?

I have also sent the same RFI to the FAR but keen to know people's take on it.

Thank you

[No1Mk3]

G'day Rider888,
I see you have some confusions, first there is no S.105 of the Act, you refer to S.105 of the old Firearm Regulations and it is important to know the difference of which legislation pertains to you. Under the current NSW Firearms Regulations 2017 the reference is in Part 10, S.106 (1) and you are corect in that participation is based on numbers of handgun KINDS owned during the reporting period of your club. No handguns, no participation in shoots required. As to the 2nd part of your query you are very much mistaken, clubs absolutely CAN make up their own rules regarding member participation and activites providing they do not minimise lawful rquirements and you agree to the clubs Terms & Conditions when you join that club. You are free to leave and join some other club if you don't like their rules, Cheers.

[Bidgee]

FWIW I hold a Cat H. For a 3yr period I didnt own a handgun but retained the licence. No participation required during that time. When I applied for handgun PTA last year I had to redo the 30 day cool off period.

[Rider888]

G'day Rider888,
I see you have some confusions, first there is no S.105 of the Act, you refer to S.105 of the old Firearm Regulations and it is important to know the difference of which legislation pertains to you. Under the current NSW Firearms Regulations 2017 the reference is in Part 10, S.106 (1) and you are corect in that participation is based on numbers of handgun KINDS owned during the reporting period of your club. No handguns, no participation in shoots required. As to the 2nd part of your query you are very much mistaken, clubs absolutely CAN make up their own rules regarding member participation and activites providing they do not minimise lawful rquirements and you agree to the clubs Terms & Conditions when you join that club. You are free to leave and join some other club if you don't like their rules, Cheers.

Thank you for clarifying that no shoots are needed if one doesn’t own a firearm and as for clubs that make up their own sideline rules, this should be discouraged and they should be following what’s stipulated in the regulations

[JohnV]

When you get an attendance receipt that says you attended for Hunting and Target shooting on the one receipt , is that one attendance or two attendances for two separate categories ? I see it as I have attended for 1 Hunting and 1 Target attendance on each receipt . That means I only have to get 4 receipts to cover 6 attendances not 6 receipts . No one can explain this to me because I think we are being ripped off . What constitutes an attendance me turning up or the tick on the T & H on the receipt . Where in the firearms act does it state what constitutes an attendance ?

[No1Mk3]

When you get an attendance receipt that says you attended for Hunting and Target shooting on the one receipt , is that one attendance or two attendances for two separate categories ? I see it as I have attended for 1 Hunting and 1 Target attendance on each receipt . That means I only have to get 4 receipts to cover 6 attendances not 6 receipts . No one can explain this to me because I think we are being ripped off . What constitutes an attendance me turning up or the tick on the T & H on the receipt . Where in the firearms act does it state what constitutes an attendance ?

Are you talking rifle or handgun? rifle attendance is 4 times per year, and no, they won't accept 1 attendance as 2 because of your Genuine Reason.

[No1Mk3]

G'day Rider888,
I see you have some confusions, first there is no S.105 of the Act, you refer to S.105 of the old Firearm Regulations and it is important to know the difference of which legislation pertains to you. Under the current NSW Firearms Regulations 2017 the reference is in Part 10, S.106 (1) and you are corect in that participation is based on numbers of handgun KINDS owned during the reporting period of your club. No handguns, no participation in shoots required. As to the 2nd part of your query you are very much mistaken, clubs absolutely CAN make up their own rules regarding member participation and activites providing they do not minimise lawful rquirements and you agree to the clubs Terms & Conditions when you join that club. You are free to leave and join some other club if you don't like their rules, Cheers.

Thank you for clarifying that no shoots are needed if one doesn’t own a firearm and as for clubs that make up their own sideline rules, this should be discouraged and they should be following what’s stipulated in the regulations

Clubs are allowed to make up their own rules, any club whether gun, surf, golf, whatever. If the rules don't go against Law then they are OK. What is stipulated in the regulations is a mandated Minimum only, if the club wants you to attend that doesn't contravene the Law. An example is my club has a storage minimum that exceeds the requirements of our Act, don't like it, don't join. We have no mandated attendance for working bees or handgun ownership (no gun, no shoot unless you want to) but he club next door has a rule that you must pay $50 if you don't come to working bees and you must shoot twice a year with club guns if you don't have your own.

[JohnV]

When you get an attendance receipt that says you attended for Hunting and Target shooting on the one receipt , is that one attendance or two attendances for two separate categories ? I see it as I have attended for 1 Hunting and 1 Target attendance on each receipt . That means I only have to get 4 receipts to cover 6 attendances not 6 receipts . No one can explain this to me because I think we are being ripped off . What constitutes an attendance me turning up or the tick on the T & H on the receipt . Where in the firearms act does it state what constitutes an attendance ?

Are you talking rifle or handgun? rifle attendance is 4 times per year, and no, they won't accept 1 attendance as 2 because of your Genuine Reason.

Rifle , what bearing has genuine reason got on attendance requirements ? What is an attendance me physically attending or the tick on the receipt ?

[bladeracer]

Thank you for clarifying that no shoots are needed if one doesn’t own a firearm and as for clubs that make up their own sideline rules, this should be discouraged and they should be following what’s stipulated in the regulations

Clubs don't exist just to give you your minimum attendances, they are businesses and they have to make a profit, they need the freedom to decide how many attendances they need from members to stay afloat.

But I thought you could get your minimum attendances at any club, they don't have to be at your own club do they?

[Rider888]

Yes I believe it's a cumulative for clubs to make your 4 or 6.

For example, 4 years ago, which was my last attendance and shoot, I did 2 in NSW, 3 in SA and 1 in Vic and as long as the attendance register is kept by the club, that constitutes my 6 and was accepted by FAR NSW

Thank you for clarifying that no shoots are needed if one doesn’t own a firearm and as for clubs that make up their own sideline rules, this should be discouraged and they should be following what’s stipulated in the regulations

Clubs don't exist just to give you your minimum attendances, they are businesses and they have to make a profit, they need the freedom to decide how many attendances they need from members to stay afloat.

But I thought you could get your minimum attendances at any club, they don't have to be at your own club do they?

[JohnV]

If your a SSAA member in NSW anyway you can go to any range affiliated with SSAA which is most of them and do an attendance but just make sure you keep your receipts . I just think that technically 1 receipt with T & H ticked is two attendances not one but who am I to question the money train to the SSAA .

[No1Mk3]

If your a SSAA member in NSW anyway you can go to any range affiliated with SSAA which is most of them and do an attendance but just make sure you keep your receipts . I just think that technically 1 receipt with T & H ticked is two attendances not one but who am I to question the money train to the SSAA .

JohnV,
You are barking up the wrong tree mate, SSAA have absolutely nothing to do with it, the same conditions apply to SSAA members, FGA members or NSWRA members. Your attendance requirements are mandated by Law and enforced by NSW Firearms Registry according to what Genuine Reason you used when you first applied for your Cat B licence. If it was Sport/Target Shooting you must attend 4 events, but if you only have Recreational Hunting/Vermin Control and you are a member of a dedicated Hunting Club as per Regulation 108 then you only need to do 2 activities. If you have both on your Licence application (never mind what the range receipt says, it is your Licence that counts) then you must nominate a Primary Club and attend their facility or notify your Primary Club if you attend somewhere else. As you have Sport/Target also going by what you wrote, you must make 4 activities and FAR require that to be on 4 seperate days, ie: You can't go to Siverdale in the morning then ANZAC in the afternoon and claim 2 activities, just as you can't claim 2 activities for 1 attendance because of a tick on a receipt. That tick is to cover you for AN activity regardless of what Genuine Reason you gave to the Police for your Licence, that's all.

[JohnV]

That is not what I am talking about . I know it's the law but it's the SSAA who checks your attendances for the Government . It's the SSAA who set up the receipt books and payment system . All I am saying is should the SSAA see T & H ticked on the one receipt as two separate visits and I reckon they should but they don't because it makes them more money . Oh and by the way it was the SSAA that advised the Howard Government to have mandatory visits it's in Hansard . Government was not even going to call for mandatory visits . Far does not require 4 separate days at all . You are allowed to visit twice in one day if you go home for lunch and come back .

[No1Mk3]

That is not what I am talking about . I know it's the law but it's the SSAA who checks your attendances for the Government . It's the SSAA who set up the receipt books and payment system . All I am saying is should the SSAA see T & H ticked on the one receipt as two separate visits and I reckon they should but they don't because it makes them more money . Oh and by the way it was the SSAA that advised the Howard Government to have mandatory visits it's in Hansard . Government was not even going to call for mandatory visits . Far does not require 4 separate days at all . You are allowed to visit twice in one day if you go home for lunch and come back .

It isn't SSAA's choice, even if you are a member of another organization and never, ever attend a SSAA range,such as NSWRA they will absolutely NOT credit you with 2 activities for 1 visit. you also don't seem to understand that only NSW has mandatory visits for longarms we in Victoria do not have any visits for longarms so it is nothing to do with Johnny Coward and the Feds it is NSW Police. you can visit a range as many times a day as you like but FAR will not accept you have made your requirements. If it was the case, people would make 4 visits in 1 day and claim they have met requirements for the year. Try it one year and see how you go with that.

[bladeracer]

...it was the SSAA that advised the Howard Government to have mandatory visits it's in Hansard . Government was not even going to call for mandatory visits.

No mandatory requirements here in Victoria except for handguns.