Installing a pistol safe

[Rayder44]

Hello all,

I'm installing a small pistol safe, but I think I've hit a snag. I can really only bolt it down at two points, being the floor.

The floor is concrete and I've got some beefy anka screws that exceed the recommended size. The location is also ideal, as it has a wall behind and on the left side, which would make the lock and door harder to penetrate. I'm confident that I can bolt the safe down nice and tight and that it won't ever budge, but would the local coppers not be happy that there's only two bolts? It's only a very small safe so it should hold it down very well.

I also checked the legislation and it only states that the safe must be bolted down. The four bolts only comes up in the "facts" sheet. Am I pushing my luck with it?

Thanks.

[Westy]

Don't use a wood screw or people will be talking about you here!!!!LOL

[sbd3927]

Whats the reason you can't use all four points? Trying to get rear Anka screws in place would be difficult I'd guess.

I prefer to use http://www.ramset.com.au/Product/Detail ... ld-Anchors for concrete, the captive nut seems far better than either the anka or the tapered bolt (which chews up the sleeve, pulls loose, or if the holes too deep, drops out of reach)

Another thought, whats the wall construction? I used Loxins onto a brick wall, full height 10 gun safe seemed to have too much leverage for my liking if it was only bolted to a floor. Its actually held to the wall a little high, isn't compressing the carpet and will barely leave a trace if it ever needs to be moved.

[Rayder44]

Haha no they are definitely not wood screws. They are Ramset concrete threaded bolts that self tap into masonry. I'm going to use these because I'd like to completely remove them at some stage and I don't like the idea of grinding off dynabolts.

http://www.ramset.com.au/Product/Detail ... In-Anchors

The safe is only small and could only hold maybe 4 or 5 pistols so I don't think someone would have much leverage working the bolts out. The wall is just your regular wall (plasterboard, gyprock, whatever it is). There is a brick wall on the other side but there is a significant gap between the wall and the brick wall. I could put something in the back but I don't see the point as it wouldn't really be attaching to anything.

I can completely remove the carpet underneath so it shouldn't be a problem there. The safe will go directly onto concrete.

[Guliver]

My pistol safe is small and only has one large hole for mounting in the centre of the base, I have a 20mm Ramset bolt into the concrete slab at least 15cm.

Are you saying it needs four bolts or am I mistaken?

There's absolutely no ways to use four bolts.

[Rayder44]

Well that's my concern. I wasn't sure if police would make a big deal over having two bolts instead of four. And as mentioned, it says you should have four in the facts sheet but nothing mentioned in the legislation. I think ill just go for it and see how i go. As you said you have only one and it seems fine, so I think it should be OK.

I would definitely use four if I could, but its just not practical given my circumstances to attach it to the wall. The area is fairly secure as its going to be positioned in a corner with the locking side against the wall. Ill let you guys know how it goes.

[sbd3927]

.. I don't like the idea of grinding off dynabolts.
.

The loxin's also leave nothing protruding, theres just the nut and sleeve left locked into position down the hole once you remove your bolts. You could leave the hole, plug it, or even patch smooth with some concrete or plaster. You also have the choice of using rated high tensile bolts, that would likely impress anyone inspecting. Good luck with it.

[AusC]

My pistol safe is small and only has one large hole for mounting in the centre of the base, I have a 20mm Ramset bolt into the concrete slab at least 15cm.

Are you saying it needs four bolts or am I mistaken?

There's absolutely no ways to use four bolts.

You're good.

There is no required number of bolts in Victoria.

Schedule 4 item 2 of the of the Firearms Act if you care to read the full thing but the short version is...

"general category handguns"

...

"must be bolted to the structure of the premises where the firearm is authorised to be kept"

[Seconds]

Rayder44,

What AusC said goes the same for NSW. There is no minimum required amount of bolts, it just has to be securely bolted to the structure.

It's not an excuse to shortcut it of course, (not saying you would) but if someone did a half ass job of it and the safe was bolted in but the bolts were weak or shallow or whatever which meant you could get the safe up without much hassle, that wouldn't fly.

What Westy was joking about above was a guy recently got pinched because he had 2 shallow screws into a timber floor and the thieves just picked the box up and walked out with it because it was weakly secured.

If your "beefy anka screws" hold it down tight, it'll be right.

[ebr love]

Just a side note for you Rayder... the cops doing the inspections (at least most of them) aren't "out to get you". They just want to make sure people are doing the right thing and no one's slacking off.

People occasionally do stupid things like knowingly not bolt a lock box down "because we're renting and didn't want to put a hole in the floor" and excuses like that. That's when they'll pin you.

When you have an inspection the guy will give the safe a push and pull to see what he can get out of it. How far will he get with those bolts?

[Guliver]

Thanks for the info.

You're good.

There is no required number of bolts in Victoria.

Schedule 4 item 2 of the of the Firearms Act if you care to read the full thing but the short version is...

"general category handguns"

...

"must be bolted to the structure of the premises where the firearm is authorised to be kept"

[Calamity Jen]

Rayder44,

What AusC said goes the same for NSW. There is no minimum required amount of bolts, it just has to be securely bolted to the structure.

It's not an excuse to shortcut it of course, (not saying you would) but if someone did a half ass job of it and the safe was bolted in but the bolts were weak or shallow or whatever which meant you could get the safe up without much hassle, that wouldn't fly.

What Westy was joking about above was a guy recently got pinched because he had 2 shallow screws into a timber floor and the thieves just picked the box up and walked out with it because it was weakly secured.

If your "beefy anka screws" hold it down tight, it'll be right.

Agreed that the NSW legislature doesn't specify, but I cut and pasted this from their safe storage page which does. No idea of Victoria's fine print, but just in case:

* When mounted onto brick, stone or concrete, it should be attached by at least four (4) masonry anchors 90mm in length and 10mm in diameter internally fitted through holes in the rear and/or base of the container, securing it to the floor and/or wall. The safe should be flush against the floor and/or wall.

* When mounted onto main wall studs or wall bearers, it should be fitted flush against the wall and secured to the wall studs and floor bearers by four (4) galvanized hexagon head coach screws, not less than 65mm in length and 8mm in diameter.

Incidentally, just had a safe inspection on the 31st of October and the Sergeant conducting the inspection said the same.
HTH

[yoshie]

Why can't you drill 2 more holes in the bottom of the safe and put 2 more bolts in? When I put my safe on a wall I marked out that studs and noggins on the wall and drilled the safe to suit so I could get 4 bolts in to structural timber,

[chacka]

Hello all,

I'm installing a small pistol safe, but I think I've hit a snag. I can really only bolt it down at two points, being the floor.

The floor is concrete and I've got some beefy anka screws that exceed the recommended size. The location is also ideal, as it has a wall behind and on the left side, which would make the lock and door harder to penetrate.

I assume you're renting or something? Don't want to damage the wall?

What's the wall? Plaster or brick? You can fill and paint the plaster easily enough and Selleys and the like to bring and mortar repair. Just caulk gun it in, comes in different colours to match and everything.

If it's right on the wall I'm not sure why you can only bolt it down on the floor?

[yoshie]

A guy at our club had his safe cut from the floor, they used some diamond cutting wire and sawed the dyna bolts. If they want it, they'll find a way to get it. If I were you I'd use the method of securing as the police advise, it' may not be written in legislation but if you have to sit in front of a magistrate, I'd prefer to argue that I met the police advice facts sheet than not.

[chacka]

If I were you I'd use the method of securing as the police advise, it' may not be written in legislation but if you have to sit in front of a magistrate, I'd prefer to argue that I met the police advice facts sheet than not.

+1