Storage requirements for Adler Straight Pull 12G in QLD

[rabsmulder]

Good Morning everyone,

First post today. I've just picked up a new Adler B230t Straight pull shotgun, the question I have is about safe storage.

Do I need to store the weapon with the cocking handle/operating handle removed from the bolt?

Regards

Rod

[rc42]

'Action Broken' is the key phrase for this type, you need a breech flag or something so that the action isn't fully closed.

The purpose of the rule is so that anyone (that knows firearms) can look at the firearm without picking it up and know with certainty that it is not in a ready to fire condition with a round in the chamber.

If you want to go further by removing the bolt and other components that's up to you but for straight pull and lever action that's not usually easy.

[GQshayne]

I have a BLR, so cannot remove the bolt from it either, not easily anyway. A trigger lock is accepted safety for such firearms in Qld as far as I know. For such a small cost it is good idea I think.

[No1_49er]

A trigger lock does not require the action to be "broken".
"As far as I know"? Would you care to quote the relevant part of the Act/Regs, or is it just a bit of a punt?

[AussieCapitalist]

What licence is the firearm under? I am going to assume it is not for collection purposes and thus the QLD weapons regulation that is relative to you state "THE BOLT MUST BE REMOVED OR THE ACTION BROKEN". So just put a chamber flag in and you are compliant. A trigger lock is not an approved method unless the police commissioner authorises you specifically. If this is for collection purposes it must also be made temporarily inoperable via a trigger lock. However do not take my word for it, as I am just some random on a forum and read the 1990 weapons act and the 2016 weapons regulation so you know your legal obligations.

Watch this video for some guidance also mate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYm2rTMTflg

[Ziege]

For once I find myself having a win, WA I've never heard of anyone having to store their gun without the bolt or opened or locked unless it's a pistol. Numerous friends and rellies that have been through safe inspections and never a drama, couldn't imagine having to pull a gun apart to store it, even taking out bolts and mags, they're part of the gun after all, so if I'm storing the gun, I'm gonna be storing the whole gun

[AussieCapitalist]

For once I find myself having a win, WA I've never heard of anyone having to store their gun without the bolt or opened or locked unless it's a pistol. Numerous friends and rellies that have been through safe inspections and never a drama, couldn't imagine having to pull a gun apart to store it, even taking out bolts and mags, they're part of the gun after all, so if I'm storing the gun, I'm gonna be storing the whole gun

It is annoying and one day I hope it changes, but in the meantime you just break the action even by a millimetre and its compliant. You can store firearms with the mags but they must not be loaded and you can store rifle and pistols together. Whilst having the worst firearm laws in the country, WA does have some good ones. It is the only state where you can buy full auto replicas(yes they are an inert object but that's what they are called here) without a collectors licence. Qld you can buy all other replicas without a licence accept those. Not to mention WA you can own police radar detectors.

[Ziege]

Yeah radar detectors are ok, but really they're almost useless, so many different bands to detect and so many false alarms... Work ok against kband and s**t out on the highway, but in the city they're useless. Laser jammers on the other hand are the tits, but illegal to use despite being perfectly legal to buy, on the plus they jam vitronic polyscan machines (new multinovas) I'm suspecting those laws were made as a preemptive move as they knew they were buying laser multinovas

[GQshayne]

A trigger lock does not require the action to be "broken".
"As far as I know"? Would you care to quote the relevant part of the Act/Regs, or is it just a bit of a punt?

No, not a punt, I have read it somewhere, so not my idea. But I cannot remember where I am sorry.

Anyone with any experience with legislation will be aware that much of it is open to interpretation. This is likely one of those occasions.

[AussieCapitalist]

No, not a punt, I have read it somewhere, so not my idea. But I cannot remember where I am sorry.

Anyone with any experience with legislation will be aware that much of it is open to interpretation. This is likely one of those occasions.

Hey mate not to come across rude here but do you own firearms in QLD? The storage requirement can not be more clear.

94 of the weapons regulation 2016 which is derived from the weapons act of 1990 states "with the weapon’s bolt removed or its action broken" in relation to a secure storage facility(a safe). How else can that be interpreted? Under a collectors licence A.B.C,H firearms must be made temporary inoperable via a trigger lock. In QLD if you are not removing the bolt or breaking the action under a normal licence(RE1,SC1,SC2) which is the majority of people than you are breaking the law, unless you have applied for an exemption from the police commissioner which I'm going to assume is very rare.

[rc42]

The reason for the legislation containing 'bolt removed or action broken' is so that you can know without doubt that a firearm in the safe does not have a round in the chamber ready to fire, a trigger lock will not do this and, if loaded, a firearm could discharge while the lock is being removed.

It may be excessive for almost every licensed firearm owner in Queensland but if you get a police inspection they won't care about trigger locks, just broken actions unless you have a letter from the commissioner granting you an exemption.

As mentioned several times above, this part of the legislation couldn't be any clearer and all you need is a chamber flag inserted for any firearm to meet the requirements

[Patriot]

Just latch the bolt in the open position.

[Patriot]

The reason for the legislation containing 'bolt removed or action broken' is so that you can know without doubt that a firearm in the safe does not have a round in the chamber ready to fire, a trigger lock will not do this and, if loaded, a firearm could discharge while the lock is being removed.

It may be excessive for almost every licensed firearm owner in Queensland but if you get a police inspection they won't care about trigger locks, just broken actions unless you have a letter from the commissioner granting you an exemption.

As mentioned several times above, this part of the legislation couldn't be any clearer and all you need is a chamber flag inserted for any firearm to meet the requirements

Yes I believe you are correct. The confusion around trigger locks comes from the Weapons Regulation 2016 section 95 which deals with storage when you are away from your secure storage facility.In my opinion.

[Blr243]

I have the same shotgun , when u pull the cocking lever to the rear it does not automatically stay open and there is no button or catch to keep it open it always flies fwd. and even if it were possible I would not want my spring stored like that for extended periods of time and with covid we all know what extended periods of time can be like. .... so I just have a spent shell acting as a flag

[AussieCapitalist]

There is some for sale now with the extended 7 round mag.

[snag]

"It is annoying and one day I hope it changes, but in the meantime you just break the action even by a millimetre and its compliant."
AussieCapitalist is 100% correct. I spoke to the nice officers manning the Weapons Licensing stand at the Shot Show about this, they confirmed that for an action to be "broken" just means that the firearm is not in battery (in a fireable state). The action does not have to be fully open. Therefore, a lever action with the lever not fully closed or a straight pull with the moving parts eased back a smidgeon and a piece of cable tie or plastic bread bag clip inserted between bolt face and chamber is completely legal. Got this from the horses mouth.

[GQshayne]

Hey mate not to come across rude here but do you own firearms in QLD?

Yep, and for along time before licensing came into practice too.

[Macross]

So given the fact that you cant drop the hammer on a semi auto pistol while its got a chamber flag or any other device "breaking the action", do you just store it with the main spring compressed the whole time?

After reading this I started storing my two semi autos with the slide off the frame cause I don't like the idea of having the main spring compressed all the time.

[TassieTiger]

Has anyone ever had a spur of the moment inspection or are they appointment driven? Mine have all been appointment driven...

[bladeracer]

Has anyone ever had a spur of the moment inspection or are they appointment driven? Mine have all been appointment driven...

In Victoria I've had two inspections, both without warning.

[snag]

I store my semi auto pistol the same way.

[TassieTiger]

..[/quote]

In Victoria I've had two inspections, both without warning.[/quote]

How? Do they just turn up and say we are doing an inspection ? They have always phoned me ahead of time.
If they did turn up unannounced- “Sorry - but I have an appointment, come back at a CV more appropriate time...”

[AussieCapitalist]

How? Do they just turn up and say we are doing an inspection ? They have always phoned me ahead of time.
If they did turn up unannounced- “Sorry - but I have an appointment, come back at a CV more appropriate time...

The weapons act(in QLD they are weapons not firearms) states that they can search your facility when applying for a licence or every PTA but does not go into detail.

BUT the police powers and responsibilities act states that if anyone has a weapon under the weapons act the police can request to see your weapons at a reasonable place and time BUT must be within 48 hours.

And if you are in "physical possession, ie in your hand or within arms reach" of a weapon they can have immediate access to see your licence and the weapon.

In practise though I have only heard of the police giving plenty of notice for the inspections. If they rock up to your door you can just say you are drunk and you are legally obligated not to touch your firearms.

[bladeracer]

..[/quote

In Victoria I've had two inspections, both without warning.[/quote

How? Do they just turn up and say we are doing an inspection ? They have always phoned me ahead of time.
If they did turn up unannounced- “Sorry - but I have an appointment, come back at a CV more appropriate time...”

Yep, just drove up to my door.
If it was inconvenient (it takes an hour to get them all out for inspection) I could ask them to call again I guess.

[GQshayne]

The weapons act(in QLD they are weapons not firearms) states that they can search your facility when applying for a licence or every PTA but does not go into detail.

BUT the police powers and responsibilities act states that if anyone has a weapon under the weapons act the police can request to see your weapons at a reasonable place and time BUT must be within 48 hours.

And if you are in "physical possession, ie in your hand or within arms reach" of a weapon they can have immediate access to see your licence and the weapon.

In practise though I have only heard of the police giving plenty of notice for the inspections. If they rock up to your door you can just say you are drunk and you are legally obligated not to touch your firearms.

My father has had two visits for inspections in Qld, both without prior notice.

[TassieTiger]

Interesting - I’ve nothing to hide, but I’m not going to have my Adler semi cocked either - it’s unnecessary and I’m sure that any reasonable officer would agree - Tassie slightly different to QLD.
Of additional note - has anyone tried to place a nominal C shaped trigger lock on the Adler ? It’s like a Chinese puzzle...

[MontyShooter]

I'm in Vic and have only had one unannounced visit at about 8:30 one Saturday night. I was literally walking out the front door as the officer walked up my driveway. I guess I could have said come back another time but I've got nothing to hide. Interestingly I had one more gun in my collection than was on the officers list, so I guess there was a bit of a lag in their system.

[AussieCapitalist]

Why do you blokes use the term "I have nothing to hide"? Whatever skeletons you may or may not have in your closet is irrelevant. What matters is the law.

[Blr243]

If tricky putting funny trigger lock on Adler ( lever gun ) wrap chain and padlock round it that’s what I do with blr in safe or in transit

[TassieTiger]

Why do you blokes use the term "I have nothing to hide"? Whatever skeletons you may or may not have in your closet is irrelevant. What matters is the law.

Whst matters is interpretation and application of the law as has been already touched on in this thread - the black and white world has grey in it. That’s why ppl say - I’ve nothing to hide...no one is flouting the law by saying that so what’s your beef ?