Sunday thoughts, Realistic NFA Reform

[womble]

No mention of mass shootings in your spiel Ziege, which i find odd because the USA has more mass shootings than any other country in the world by a huge margin.
Truth be told they only account for less than a percent of deaths by firearms overall. So i can see why you skipped the mention.
Unfortunately that only makes one realise that the 417 mass shootings in the USA in 2019. In one year. They literally average more mass shootings than days in a year.
Yet that was just a drop in the ocean for all the firearm related deaths that year in the USA.

Now consider the greatest fear Australians have from more relaxed gun laws. Yep mass shootings.
Do not want.
The point being you can’t sell it here. No matter how you spin it. The numbers don’t lie.

You can make any amount of excuses that will account for all the death. But the numbers don’t change.
Relaxed and permissive regulation allows easier accessibility and greater opportunity for ham done. One way or any other number of ways.

[bigrich]

Ziege interesting points, have you ever had access to the use of semi autos? Im kind of curious not for any bad reason just more inquisitive.

i got to shoot a m14 , heavy rifles , and m1 carbine . the carbine was a hoot, would be even better in these days with a lot more projectile choice . but the fella who owned these used to shoot his 30-30 more often cause it was cheaper to run . it was more tempting and fun to let off multiple shots with the semi's . at least in this case . the m1 carbine was awsome , as fast as you could tap the trigger it would let a round off stirling 22 on steroids at least these are my experiences when i was a lot younger. these firearms were handed in in '96 for a profit

if i had access to semi's these days , it'd be a ruger 10/22 , a ruger 44 mag carbine ( big brother of the 10/22) and a browning blr in 30-06 . these also come in 9.3x62 and have been converted to 35 whelen ! just a dream i guess maybe a mini 14 as well.......

[Farmerpete]

Why does everyone talk about the U.S. but no one ever mentions Switzerland where it's illegal not to own an assault rifle???

[Oldbloke]

Why does everyone talk about the U.S. but no one ever mentions Switzerland where it's illegal not to own an assault rifle???

Lol. Fair enough.

[CAVEMAN]

Why does everyone talk about the U.S. but no one ever mentions Switzerland where it's illegal not to own an assault rifle???

That's a bit of a false truth, rifle ownership high yes. Compulsory military service yes. Can they keep them on discharge yes. Can they store ammo, not really typically its bought and shot at the range. And a different mentality of people. Possibly even more civilized. Assault rifle ownership is not a requirement.

[CAVEMAN]

And the rifles aren't for self defense but defense of there country, armed neutrality they excel at it.. There tactical planing for neutrality is quite impressive an well worth a read. They don't pay lip service to there countries defense.

[Oldbloke]

I think people need to ask.
Why do people in some countries think its ok to kill each other?

What makes them want to?

What ever the weapon.

[AussieCapitalist]

I need a Pauline Hanson on this one....please explain.
Under what system, procedures or whatever do people become "vetted"

Is this a joke comment?

You realise the police background check to get your licence is vetting.

[AussieCapitalist]

I think people need to ask.
Why do people in some countries think its ok to kill each other?

What makes them want to?

What ever the weapon.

Some countries? Name me one place where there is no crime? Even Vatican City which is a country has crime. There are murders everywhere.

[TassieTiger]

^ geezus Bugman...That’s from within our own ranks? No wonder some pollies think you walk into a gun shop and buy lol

[CAVEMAN]

Ziege interesting points, have you ever had access to the use of semi autos? Im kind of curious not for any bad reason just more inquisitive.

i got to shoot a m14 , heavy rifles , and m1 carbine . the carbine was a hoot, would be even better in these days with a lot more projectile choice . but the fella who owned these used to shoot his 30-30 more often cause it was cheaper to run . it was more tempting and fun to let off multiple shots with the semi's . at least in this case . the m1 carbine was awsome , as fast as you could tap the trigger it would let a round off stirling 22 on steroids at least these are my experiences when i was a lot younger. these firearms were handed in in '96 for a profit

if i had access to semi's these days , it'd be a ruger 10/22 , a ruger 44 mag carbine ( big brother of the 10/22) and a browning blr in 30-06 . these also come in 9.3x62 and have been converted to 35 whelen ! just a dream i guess maybe a mini 14 as well.......

I'm thinking there's a correlation between people wanting semis or more and there experience. I've played with fun toys, but for recreation i couldn't really warrant them. I would love semi rimfires because you can achieve semi fun without the price or infrastructure. And even countries with similar gun laws typically allow rimfire semis, there far more innocent. And well pumps, i don't see much difference between a lever, straight pull or a pump bar the media image of them. And i still think from my understanding on most hunting we do here is achievable with what we already have access to. And the pros do have access to appropriate tools for there trade.

And those Ruger 44 mag, look gorgeous. It does amaze me Ruger doesn't make them anymore. I am still considering finding a 96/44.

[Oldbloke]

^ geezus. That’s from within our own ranks? No wonder some pollies think you walk into a gun shop and buy lol

Did any of you think about what i said?

[AussieCapitalist]

I'm thinking there's a correlation between people wanting semis or more and there experience. I've played with fun toys, but for recreation i couldn't really warrant them. I would love semi rimfires because you can achieve semi fun without the price or infrastructure. And even countries with similar gun laws typically allow rimfire semis, there far more innocent. And well pumps, i don't see much difference between a lever, straight pull or a pump bar the media image of them. And i still think from my understanding on most hunting we do here is achievable with what we already have access to. And the pros do have access to appropriate tools for there trade.

And those Ruger 44 mag, look gorgeous. It does amaze me Ruger doesn't make them anymore. I am still considering finding a 96/44.

Do yourself a favour mate and go overseas and cut down a forest with 50bmg full autos and some RPGs. It is the most fun you can have with your pants on.

[Farmerpete]

That's a bit of a false truth, rifle ownership high yes. Compulsory military service yes. Can they keep them on discharge yes. Can they store ammo, not really typically its bought and shot at the range. And a different mentality of people. Possibly even more civilized. Assault rifle ownership is not a requirement.

It is and it isn't a false truth. In Switzerland they need to be ready to form an armed militia. I'm not sure about ammo storage but I'm pretty sure that hunting isn't banned.

The different mindset you speak of is very similar to Australia's as in we actually recognize and support people with mental health issues rather than just lock them up like the U.S.
The support for mental health started in the mid 90s around the same time as another event forever tieing the good it did to firearms reform. it was a stroke of evil genius on Howard's part and the reason the reforms are viewed as so successful

[CAVEMAN]

I'm thinking there's a correlation between people wanting semis or more and there experience. I've played with fun toys, but for recreation i couldn't really warrant them. I would love semi rimfires because you can achieve semi fun without the price or infrastructure. And even countries with similar gun laws typically allow rimfire semis, there far more innocent. And well pumps, i don't see much difference between a lever, straight pull or a pump bar the media image of them. And i still think from my understanding on most hunting we do here is achievable with what we already have access to. And the pros do have access to appropriate tools for there trade.

And those Ruger 44 mag, look gorgeous. It does amaze me Ruger doesn't make them anymore. I am still considering finding a 96/44.

Do yourself a favour mate and go overseas and cut down a forest with 50bmg full autos and some RPGs. It is the most fun you can have with your pants on.

I can do that more efficiently with a dozer. Done similar but its not really Australian to do those things. We are not yanks, id be more inclined to make a rippa bonfire and sink tins with my mates.

[CAVEMAN]

That's a bit of a false truth, rifle ownership high yes. Compulsory military service yes. Can they keep them on discharge yes. Can they store ammo, not really typically its bought and shot at the range. And a different mentality of people. Possibly even more civilized. Assault rifle ownership is not a requirement.

It is and it isn't a false truth. In Switzerland they need to be ready to form an armed militia. I'm not sure about ammo storage but I'm pretty sure that hunting isn't banned.

The different mindset you speak of is very similar to Australia's as in we actually recognize and support people with mental health issues rather than just lock them up like the U.S.
The support for mental health started in the mid 90s around the same time as another event forever tieing the good it did to firearms reform. it was a stroke of evil genius on Howard's part and the reason the reforms are viewed as so successful

You are absolutely right amount hunting there, but i think there's less of a thing of buying bulk. And typicaly they will get there 5.6 as theirs is slightly different to 5.56. Use it at the range and it doesn't really leave there. They used to issue 50 rounds in a spam can for emergency use by active soldiers for use on there way to the barracks. But they stopped that in the mid 2000's

But i think that's a key point of this you just hit there, we do look after people who need it. I think we could do better but generally we try and do help most of our people. Id still much prefer our current yet flawed healthcare and support system to a few shiny guns. People are the issue, and sometimes they need some help and some rules to help them through.

[Ziege]

Ziege interesting points, have you ever had access to the use of semi autos? Im kind of curious not for any bad reason just more inquisitive.

Extensively, shot semi automatic firearms my entire youth, and have shot auto pistol (cz sp01) in comp for over 5 years, have fired many full auto firearms too many many times, great fun, MP5 is a personal favourite, however uzi, mac-10, Kriss vector, Chinese made pkm and ak-47 all make the top end of the list as well, not so much the M16, well not the jammy mc jam jam ones I've fired, I've also used pistols and SMG used by Filipino police to despatch of those bent on spreading drugs and violence around the province,

Other notable experience is being in the reserves when finishing high school doing preliminary training (at the time I intended to join one of the wings of the Military, changed my mind after a hereditary vascular issue hindered that and there not being a satisfactory surgery for that at the time) clay target shooting with a Benelli auto for 4 years and even fired an RPG once.

That suffice to ease your curiosity?

[Ziege]

No mention of mass shootings in your spiel Ziege, which i find odd because the USA has more mass shootings than any other country in the world by a huge margin.
Truth be told they only account for less than a percent of deaths by firearms overall. So i can see why you skipped the mention.
Unfortunately that only makes one realise that the 417 mass shootings in the USA in 2019. In one year. They literally average more mass shootings than days in a year.
Yet that was just a drop in the ocean for all the firearm related deaths that year in the USA.

Now consider the greatest fear Australians have from more relaxed gun laws. Yep mass shootings.
Do not want.
The point being you can’t sell it here. No matter how you spin it. The numbers don’t lie.

You can make any amount of excuses that will account for all the death. But the numbers don’t change.
Relaxed and permissive regulation allows easier accessibility and greater opportunity for ham done. One way or any other number of ways.

Why not just admit you hate automatic firearms? Who's team are you on anyway? Either a gigantic Fudd or anti in disguise, lol

Mass shootings almost always happen in gun free zones and most of the notable recent ones have all occurred despite the warning signs being obvious as hell, Vegas shooter - police and gov failed to act on existing laws, and the list just goes on and on,

What you're not touching at all is the what does the government gain from disarming everyone, they have a hard on for it like a 14 year old at a porn festival, and what mong goes through life not questioning authority?

[Ziege]

Also..... Martin Bryant acquired the rifle used in Port Arthur from a gun dealer who was subsequently penalized for selling to him in contravention of standing laws.... So your entire garb about permissive regulation is just hot wind with the occasional spattering of weak cold piss.

Any firearm dealer now could do that exact same thing, a few years ago here a dealer was selling a DSR in 338 lapua, had they palmed it off under the desk to some nutter it would be no different at all to what unfolded in 1996... There is 0 connection to licensed firearm owners and these events, Bryant was not licensed to posess that long arm.

[Ziege]

"The figures I base my view on are the most up to date and reliable the USA produce, and that is direct from the FBI, one such report showed a total of 38+ thousand deaths due to firearms"

So, how many murders? 38,000 or 15,000?

38,000 firearm deaths OB

[Sergeant Hartman]

Caveman mate i dunno if you intended it this way... but i had a real chuckle.

And even countries with similar gun laws typically allow rimfire semis, there far more innocent

Anyway i see zeig is being is paranoid self, anyone who doesn't want a full auto must be a GCA stooge.

Actually stretching the friendship, i am surprised all this talk about semi auto.... what head the full auto done to you... outs not good enough for you to spend your hard earned $$$$.

The rest i agree with tassie, deja vu

[Ziege]

Not really but no surprise you'd come onboard with some whiney vitriolic drool,

More making light of the fact that Womble is a defeatist, and his idea of valuable information is to beat down any and everyone who wants to see things restored to how they should have remained, we only lost access to semi automatic firearms and pump action shotguns because of the actions of more than one criminal who were not stopped efficiently by police despite being in contravention of standing laws, had the police been anything other than a bunch of morons with chips on their shoulders they would have been doing their job and he and the crooked gun dealer and whoever else was involved would have been dealt with and the event never would have occurred, so instead now Womble advocates for even more laws that the police still don't act on sufficiently and then calls it a victory for society? Please what a load of s**t

[Oldbloke]

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[bigrich]

Unbelievable.gif

+1

How about we constructively stay on topic instead of ragging on each other because of criticism and different points of view

Unity , or lack of , is the reason things won’t change, and laws/rights will be eroded by the anti and beurocrats even more. We’ve already established that yes ?

Myself, I don’t have much use for semi’s , my accurate hunting rifles will be bolts. But having the choice of a ruger semi auto 44 mag rifle for a pig gun would be good. Or a semi 22 Lr , just for fun .

The first, and smartest steps in my humble opinion, would be getting semi 22lr , pump shotty , and appearance laws changed. Without unity, and someone to represent us , nothing will change. So , how about we all join more pro active organisations than bickering on enough guns

JMHO

[womble]

Just to be clear i do want more people to be able to have access to self loading firearms in Aus. I do see legitimate genuine needs that are not accounted for in the current cat C/D regulations.

What I’m against is having weak gun laws. the US is a clear example of that and a path no-one wants to go down.
If theres antis on the forum the best cover they could have and the most harm they could cause would be to promote exactly that.
Representing us as wanting gun laws relaxed just like in the USA is the most damaging thing anyone could do on an Australian gun forum.

[womble]

Look deeper. There are success stories. There are countries with tough legislation, without prohibition.

[CAVEMAN]

Ziege interesting points, have you ever had access to the use of semi autos? Im kind of curious not for any bad reason just more inquisitive.

Extensively, shot semi automatic firearms my entire youth, and have shot auto pistol (cz sp01) in comp for over 5 years, have fired many full auto firearms too many many times, great fun, MP5 is a personal favourite, however uzi, mac-10, Kriss vector, Chinese made pkm and ak-47 all make the top end of the list as well, not so much the M16, well not the jammy mc jam jam ones I've fired, I've also used pistols and SMG used by Filipino police to despatch of those bent on spreading drugs and violence around the province,

Other notable experience is being in the reserves when finishing high school doing preliminary training (at the time I intended to join one of the wings of the Military, changed my mind after a hereditary vascular issue hindered that and there not being a satisfactory surgery for that at the time) clay target shooting with a Benelli auto for 4 years and even fired an RPG once.

That suffice to ease your curiosity?

It does actually and thank you. See my exposure to them is in a professional setting and that's where i think they belong. In the hands of professionals. Whereas yourself you have had exposure partially professionally but mainly in a recreational setting and this is where our views differ.

[Sergeant Hartman]

Let me make a few stats up.

90% of those older than 45 don't really care about semi autos.
75% of people who had semi autos before buyback are not yearning for them.
99% of Australian population do not want other citizens to be armed with semi auto or full auto rifles.

While those numbers are not true, but the reality is closer to those numbers.

[CAVEMAN]

Caveman mate i dunno if you intended it this way... but i had a real chuckle.

And even countries with similar gun laws typically allow rimfire semis, there far more innocent

Anyway i see zeig is being is paranoid self, anyone who doesn't want a full auto must be a GCA stooge.

Actually stretching the friendship, i am surprised all this talk about semi auto.... what head the full auto done to you... outs not good enough for you to spend your hard earned $$$$.

The rest i agree with tassie, deja vu

Its a bit of tongue in cheek but they are the innocent of the firearms worlds. Not many people see rimfire as a scary thing, its often reminds them of that time as a kid they shot granddads down the back of the farm. They don't have that media stigma, are they still a firearm yes. But there also honestly on the low end.

Some examples being the UK with renowned strict gun laws like ourselves still allow them, and after the tragedy in NZ they are also still permitted. Same with pumps, and semi shotguns up to 5 rounds. So this is where i think we actually have grounds as our close association with these countries could be looked at as an example for how those categories could be changed.

[Oldbloke]

Just to be clear i do want more people to be able to have access to self loading firearms in Aus. I do see legitimate genuine needs that are not accounted for in the current cat C/D regulations.

What I’m against is having weak gun laws. the US is a clear example of that and a path no-one wants to go down.
If theres antis on the forum the best cover they could have and the most harm they could cause would be to promote exactly that.
Representing us as wanting gun laws relaxed just like in the USA is the most damaging thing anyone could do on an Australian gun forum.

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