Sunday thoughts, Realistic NFA Reform

[CAVEMAN]

Something i've pondered for a while is what realistic reform we could see from the NFA.

Myself i'm generally happy with the system in place, and i think it serves a decent amount on keeping everything in the black with checks and balances. And i will not bring up anything on illegal trade as the NFA does near nothing to that. But there are two thing i would like to see change one day that i believe are realistic and reasonable and not detrimental to our society.

I'm not encouraging an american system, and honestly i like knowing some things are restricted mainly to prevent Darwinism to be more rampant. But I think there's a strong case to bring pump action shotguns back to category B firearms, and also re-evaluate rim fire semi autos place.

Pump actions don't seem to need to be category C, they just seem to have a stigma. Which they do but there lies the problem we need to look at them as a tool, and or as a piece of recreation equipment. Not what they are portrayed to be. And i'm personally sick of cheap Turkish shotguns. I think there is a valid reason for pest control, and also sport that these could be moved down a category.

And Semi auto rim fires i think could go one of two ways. Either drop them down to category B, with a valid reason to own one. Either pest control or for recreational use, no different to acquiring any category B firearm. Or the second option where its along the lines of Category H, where you can obtain them if you take part in an approved shooting competition involving them.

I think both of these would be good for the general shooter to use for both recreation and in there occupation if needed with far less red tape. And of course this is just my view, and if anyone would like to way in id enjoy discussion on there thoughts.

[rc42]

One thing I'd like to see gone are the appearance restrictions which have been stupid since they were implemented.
Firearms should be categorized based on their function not how close they look to something that somebody saw in a movie.
Appearance is also unimportant as firearms are only seen by other firearm users at the range or when hunting, if a member of the public sees a firearm then there are likely other laws being broken (such as in the middle of a bank robbery or other criminal use of illegal guns)

Unfortunately, laws that favor law abiding firearm owners just don't happen anymore as they aren't in line with the ongoing political (mostly left) agendas across the world to remove access to firearms for every citizen.

[womble]

Step 1. Hearts and minds.
Step 2. Coup
Step 3. The guillotine
Step.3 the signing of the new constitution by the forum members of Enoughgun
Step 4. The republic of Australia

[CAVEMAN]

Step 1. Hearts and minds.
Step 2. Coup
Step 3. The guillotine
Step.3 the signing of the new constitution by the forum members of Enoughgun
Step 4. The republic of Australia

Yeah that may not be "realistic" but thanks for your input.

[CAVEMAN]

One thing I'd like to see gone are the appearance restrictions which have been stupid since they were implemented.
Firearms should be categorized based on their function not how close they look to something that somebody saw in a movie.
Appearance is also unimportant as firearms are only seen by other firearm users at the range or when hunting, if a member of the public sees a firearm then there are likely other laws being broken (such as in the middle of a bank robbery or other criminal use of illegal guns)

Unfortunately, laws that favor law abiding firearm owners just don't happen anymore as they aren't in line with the ongoing political (mostly left) agendas across the world to remove access to firearms for every citizen.

The appearance i know is a thing for the uneducated, but theres falf the problem same as pumps. Everyone thinks there a 1000m rapid destroyer of worlds. But we can only try.

Theres a story from many uears ago in North america of a man shooting at police in a chopper with a ruger no:1, arguably the most sedate apearing gun around. But he did quite a number. As they say be weary of the quite humble man not the boastfull one.

[Ricochet]

I'm with you.

If I could I'd simply do this

Make semiautomatic rimfires all cat A

Remove the BS appearance laws altogether.

Make pump shotguns cat B

AAAAAAAnd I'd say make semiautomatic centerfire rifles with non detachable magazines up to 10 round capacity cat B.

Allow suppressors for all bolt actions, with permits for semiautomatic rimfire and professional cullers for cat C&D

Have stern talk to that complete moron Kochie and his mates telling them to keep their propaganda BS and misinformation to themselves.

[CAVEMAN]

I'm with you.

If I could I'd simply do this

Make semiautomatic rimfires all cat A

Remove the BS appearance laws altogether.

Make pump shotguns cat B

AAAAAAAnd I'd say make semiautomatic centerfire rifles with non detachable magazines up to 10 round capacity cat B.

Allow suppressors for all bolt actions, with permits for semiautomatic rimfire and professional cullers for cat C&D

Have stern talk to that complete moron Kochie and his mates telling them to keep their propaganda BS and misinformation to themselves.

I like your idea, but i honestly dont see semi auto centrefire ever being de restricted. I personally dont really want them to be either. My personal opinion is the people who need them as tools can access them amd thats fine by me.

The supressor is another interesting one, which i think is a potential if we remove the stigma. I think a category B system with each being individualy registered same as a firearm would be appropriate. Especially for hunters as more of a safety device to protect hearing.

On your point on rimfires though i feel category B would be more likely, as with tje writing ypu need to prove a need. Wich i think if you do want a semi rimfire it should be something taken a slight bit more responsibility than a single shot.

And once again appearance laws are a load of dogs bollocks.

[No1Mk3]

And right there is where we have the problem. You don't want centrefire s/a de-restricted because you are incapable of understanding why many shooters have a valid competition reason for them, as many hunters also do, Yet you want to propose we all support your own narrow views on what is an acceptable firearm in your eyes. You sound very much like Russel Mark who also proposes the same as you with the same narrow focus, and publicly supported John Howard in achieving that. When you understand that other folk have genuine reasons for centrefire s/a rifles, whether you like it or not, and you are prepared to stand for ALL shooters, then you might find more of us willing to fight for your ideas, Cheers.

[Ziege]

Really there is no need to restrict law abiding people from owning semi automatic Firearms, if you're a danger with them you'd be a danger with any other firearm too.

Money is a bigger inhibitor to slow down the use of semi automatic firearms, we pay exponentially more for ammo here than in many places worldwide, a semi automatic 30-06 in a BAR for example is not exactly going to be economical to run in the least, and ar-15's etc can chew $30 per mag, realistically the amount of them purchased/used will be less than people anticipate, why not instead just allow for a greater level of scrutiny through training and the likes before allowing a vetted firearm owner own and use a semi automatic, then everything else that has to be manually operated can take a step or even two down. Semi shotguns and rimfire should be Cat A all day long. If I had to do a week long course and pay a license upgrade fee to buy a semi Auto centerfire I would be happy to do so. As would others, the majority otherwise would likely be happy with a shotgun, rimfire or pump action

[Ziege]

Personally you don't want to, well caveman cheers for fudding the rest the I suppose

[CAVEMAN]

Personally you don't want to, well caveman cheers for fudding the rest the I suppose

Not fudding, just my opinion.

[CAVEMAN]

And right there is where we have the problem. You don't want centrefire s/a de-restricted because you are incapable of understanding why many shooters have a valid competition reason for them, as many hunters also do, Yet you want to propose we all support your own narrow views on what is an acceptable firearm in your eyes. You sound very much like Russel Mark who also proposes the same as you with the same narrow focus, and publicly supported John Howard in achieving that. When you understand that other folk have genuine reasons for centrefire s/a rifles, whether you like it or not, and you are prepared to stand for ALL shooters, then you might find more of us willing to fight for your ideas, Cheers.

I understand there is a competition basis for them, and they have verry valid uses. If they changed id probably be first out the door to buy one.

But in todays world i dont see it happening, and unfortunately i dont think that will change. Im more looking at what others think we can realisticaly achieve. And this is just my thoughts but cheers for your post im enjoying tje dialogue.

[AussieCapitalist]

I would like to see the NFA scraped and every citizen of QLD that is not a criminal can purchase whatever their wallet can afford. I will never support nothing less than full automatic of any calibre in the hands of law abiding citizens as well as concealed carry and castle law in ones home. An armed society is a polite society and gun crime only happens in gun free zones. QLD will have Alaskan style gun laws before I die of old age.

[CAVEMAN]

I would like to see the NFA scraped and every citizen of QLD that is not a criminal can purchase whatever their wallet can afford. I will never support nothing less than full automatic of any calibre in the hands of law abiding citizens as well as concealed carry and castle law in ones home. An armed society is a polite society and gun crime only happens in gun free zones. QLD will have Alaskan style gun laws before I die of old age.

I would actually be more concerned by the introduction of Castle laws and concealed carry and such. That's not Australia were a pretty laid back place, and id rather it stay that way. I don't feel threatened on our streets, except maybe by the sun some days.

Do you see a reason why you want this style of law here?

[AussieCapitalist]

I would actually be more concerned by the introduction of Castle laws and concealed carry and such. That's not Australia were a pretty laid back place, and id rather it stay that way. I don't feel threatened on our streets, except maybe by the sun some days.

Do you see a reason why you want this style of law here?

A laid back place means nothing. We have crime like everywhere else and the courts favour the criminal over the law abiding citizen. Do I need a reason why I want the style of laws? How one spends their currency is nobodies business. My girlfriend is a weak 5 foot nothing. I would feel better if someone tried to rape her in the middle of the night she could have a 45 by the bed to defend her life and the courts should encourage self defence and self preservation. Do yourself a little favour and research how much crime is stopped every year overseas because a citizen is armed. That bloke that pointed the M1 carbine at the servo worker a few days ago is a prime example. The servo worker should be allowed to have something under the counter to defend his life and eliminate the threat to his life.

[Sergeant Hartman]

Anyway, i thought the premise of the thread to be funny... and the content sure didn't disappoint.

The saying goes divided we fall united we stand. The more one side keeps abusing anyone that doesn't support 100% full access to full auto firearms and calling them fudd... the more they put off moderate licensed firearm owners and less chance they will have of getting their (outlandish) goals.

In short AC your dream will remain a dream cuz you can't even convince actual shooters the need to get full auto firearms. And abusing them defiantly won't help you

[CAVEMAN]

Anyway, i thought the premise of the thread to be funny... and the content sure didn't disappoint.

The saying goes divided we fall united we stand. The more one side keeps abusing anyone that doesn't support 100% full access to full auto firearms and calling them fudd... the more they put off moderate licensed firearm owners and less chance they will have of getting their (outlandish) goals.

In short AC your dream will remain a dream cuz you can't even convince actual shooters the need to get full auto firearms. And abusing them defiantly won't help you

I feel we will always fall into this pit, part of the reason i started this thread was the hope it could remain a civil discussion based in the world we live in. But once again it has failed. Maybe next time.

[Sergeant Hartman]

On a more serious note, i don't understand why you would want a semi rimfire on cat b...as atleast in Vic there is no extra training etc needed to get a cat b over a cat a license.

As i said before, someone who needs a semi can usually jump through some hoops, the obvious exception is a rec shooter.


But i wonder why you asking for semi auto rifles before other things like:
Sound moderators will be more beneficial regards to OH&S.
Appearance laws, which are just silly.
Some States do not recognise other states licenses.
There are no logical or uniform laws across the states.

Hmm i can keep going but i suppose you get the picture.

[AussieCapitalist]

You are off your head sarge I have never used the word fudd nor have I abused anyone. I don't need to justify to anyone why I want something and nobody needs to justify to me why they want something.

Is it ok if I buy coon cheese at the shop tomorrow? Or should I buy the coles brand. Please someone tell me what I need.

[CAVEMAN]

All valid points, if we dug into the whole thing we would be here for ever. Its not a perfect or even good system but with logical and sane conversation in the right tone at the right time we never know what could change. And this being a forum its a good place to discuss varying points of view.

My original points are more things that just pop into my head and moderators aren't something i've thought of much. But i do see there merits and have signed a few petitions for them. Semi rim fire dropping down is not something i see happening, and if it did i think most likely would be similar to a pistol setup where you need to be a member of a club and such. I think cat C becoming similar to cat H is the only way that the regulations would change for your standard recreational shooter.

The only reason i see it being possibly B and not A, as with the law in QLD at least you do need to prove a reason, unlike a cat A where its more just can i have.

And the state to state thing is always annoying be it firearms or road transport, for one nation were all still so divided on our individual legislation. One rule book for everything would be so much better, but we are slowly getting there. Road transport is now slowly nationalizing under the NHVR, it may not be perfect but it is changing.

Thank you for your input, has brought up some more things to look at.

[AussieCapitalist]

Don't forget the states are self governing. I do not want some Melbourne or Sydney person with their inflated population having a say in what I do with my life. We need less big federal government and more local representation. Whilst we may be under the same banner as "Australian" we are not the same.

[linkoln]

For me personally I would be happy to get rid of appearance laws and have permanently deactivated semi autos converted to bolt action, that way you get the best of both worlds; you can enjoy using a modern sporting rifle and keep people happy by not having scary american guns and maybe add a 20% sporting rifle tax so the government get something out of it and see it as a way for them to make a lot of extra money.
The sport is so expensive as it is and I like that two boxes of 223 and a box of buck shot will last me around two hours but bring in semi auto and those 40 rounds of 223 are gone in five minutes.

[CAVEMAN]

For me personally I would be happy to get rid of appearance laws and have permanently deactivated semi autos converted to bolt action, that way you get the best of both worlds; you can enjoy using a modern sporting rifle and keep people happy by not having scary american guns and maybe add a 20% sporting rifle tax so the government get something out of it and see it as a way for them to make a lot of extra money.
The sport is so expensive as it is and I like that two boxes of 223 and a box of buck shot will last me around two hours but bring in semi auto and those 40 rounds of 223 are gone in five minutes.

The cost is what draws me to think rim fire is more realistic, a lot of fun competition can still be done with it at a fraction of the cost and also infrastructure than center fire. I mean i burnt through 100 308 today in 2 hours, my wallet would hate me if i went any quicker.

[AussieCapitalist]

For me personally I would be happy to get rid of appearance laws and have permanently deactivated semi autos converted to bolt action, that way you get the best of both worlds; you can enjoy using a modern sporting rifle and keep people happy by not having scary american guns and maybe add a 20% sporting rifle tax so the government get something out of it and see it as a way for them to make a lot of extra money.
The sport is so expensive as it is and I like that two boxes of 223 and a box of buck shot will last me around two hours but bring in semi auto and those 40 rounds of 223 are gone in five minutes.

You want to convert a deactivated semi auto to a bolt action? Is that not what straight pulls are for? Like the Oceania precision or the Warwick?

This is what you are after
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dmn78xn9-nA

[linkoln]

You want to convert a deactivated semi auto to a bolt action? Is that not what straight pulls are for? Like the Oceania precision or the Warwick?

This is what you are after
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dmn78xn9-nA

I have a Warwick but I want a SCAR 17 or a mini 14 and we know there is a bolt action mini 14 because the British have one.

[Ziege]

To those who parrot the government, why is this? Why do you think dangerous people will be stopped with laws? They already aren't, and Australia has proven it isn't a violent place, honestly not seeing the Ernest reason for the rollover and take it without lube attitude people have.

What is there to lose if free, law abiding vetted people have semi automatic firearms? Honestly, the crims already have them. The laws aren't stopping anyone

[womble]

I’m probably against arming girlfriends with colt 45’s

[Bugman]

I have no interest in a center fire semi auto, unless I was a professional shooter in an aerial culling program or similar. If you are a hunter, and I guess most are, then a bolt action, in my opinion would suffice, but others may well justify the use of a semi auto. With rim fires, I did some contract bunny shooting and had the use of a Ruger 10/22 with a suppressor (All legally obtained at the time) and the interesting thing was that the ammo was very low velocity as most of the shooting was done late at night or the majority in the early am hours at an average distance of 25m. The kit was justified for the legitimate end usage.
I am not against semi auto center fires however I personally feel that you must have a true and genuine justification for owning one, not just because you want to.

[Ziege]

What does this "true and genuine" justification do?

Criminals who want automatic firearms already have them and or access to them. It's much easier than even buying a bolt action rimfire for them as they don't need to be vetted, just throw some cash and done.

So why do you honestly believe that vetted, law abiding, background checked, fit and proper people have to justify any more than they already have?

Honestly I can't get over how conditioned everyone is, was there sodium pentothal in the water the day J Howard took our firearms in '96 due to the actions of a single criminal....

What actually convinces you that these laws or restrictions make your society safer? Which one of you is untrustworthy? Which one of you is a mass shooting waiting to happen? Honestly you lot.

This brainwashed idiocy is why the GCA's and shoebridge's of this world are having such an easy time chipping away at what we have left. And none of you are willing to admit to yourself that you're the problem, that agreeing with the flawed and useless and irrelevant rhetoric is exactly the kind of defeatist and lemming behaviour they feed off. If the LGBT lobby had acted like you lot we would still be seeing Friday night gay bashings taking place.

[TassieTiger]

It’s probably not plausible - but it would really be interesting to nominate “our” top 10 law changes / wish list and then poll the priority’s on that list...I wonder what the top 3-5 would be...I’m guessing, appearance laws and moderators would be top 2, but after that, everybody’s needs and wants would splinter somewhat...