Sunday thoughts, Realistic NFA Reform

[Ziege]

Also..... Martin Bryant acquired the rifle used in Port Arthur from a gun dealer who was subsequently penalized for selling to him in contravention of standing laws.... So your entire garb about permissive regulation is just hot wind with the occasional spattering of weak cold piss.

Any firearm dealer now could do that exact same thing, a few years ago here a dealer was selling a DSR in 338 lapua, had they palmed it off under the desk to some nutter it would be no different at all to what unfolded in 1996... There is 0 connection to licensed firearm owners and these events, Bryant was not licensed to posess that long arm.

[Ziege]

"The figures I base my view on are the most up to date and reliable the USA produce, and that is direct from the FBI, one such report showed a total of 38+ thousand deaths due to firearms"

So, how many murders? 38,000 or 15,000?

38,000 firearm deaths OB

[Sergeant Hartman]

Caveman mate i dunno if you intended it this way... but i had a real chuckle.

And even countries with similar gun laws typically allow rimfire semis, there far more innocent

Anyway i see zeig is being is paranoid self, anyone who doesn't want a full auto must be a GCA stooge.

Actually stretching the friendship, i am surprised all this talk about semi auto.... what head the full auto done to you... outs not good enough for you to spend your hard earned $$$$.

The rest i agree with tassie, deja vu

[Ziege]

Not really but no surprise you'd come onboard with some whiney vitriolic drool,

More making light of the fact that Womble is a defeatist, and his idea of valuable information is to beat down any and everyone who wants to see things restored to how they should have remained, we only lost access to semi automatic firearms and pump action shotguns because of the actions of more than one criminal who were not stopped efficiently by police despite being in contravention of standing laws, had the police been anything other than a bunch of morons with chips on their shoulders they would have been doing their job and he and the crooked gun dealer and whoever else was involved would have been dealt with and the event never would have occurred, so instead now Womble advocates for even more laws that the police still don't act on sufficiently and then calls it a victory for society? Please what a load of s**t

[Oldbloke]

Unbelievable.gif (236.38 KiB) Viewed 4350 times

[bigrich]

Unbelievable.gif

+1

How about we constructively stay on topic instead of ragging on each other because of criticism and different points of view

Unity , or lack of , is the reason things won’t change, and laws/rights will be eroded by the anti and beurocrats even more. We’ve already established that yes ?

Myself, I don’t have much use for semi’s , my accurate hunting rifles will be bolts. But having the choice of a ruger semi auto 44 mag rifle for a pig gun would be good. Or a semi 22 Lr , just for fun .

The first, and smartest steps in my humble opinion, would be getting semi 22lr , pump shotty , and appearance laws changed. Without unity, and someone to represent us , nothing will change. So , how about we all join more pro active organisations than bickering on enough guns

JMHO

[womble]

Just to be clear i do want more people to be able to have access to self loading firearms in Aus. I do see legitimate genuine needs that are not accounted for in the current cat C/D regulations.

What I’m against is having weak gun laws. the US is a clear example of that and a path no-one wants to go down.
If theres antis on the forum the best cover they could have and the most harm they could cause would be to promote exactly that.
Representing us as wanting gun laws relaxed just like in the USA is the most damaging thing anyone could do on an Australian gun forum.

[womble]

Look deeper. There are success stories. There are countries with tough legislation, without prohibition.

[CAVEMAN]

Ziege interesting points, have you ever had access to the use of semi autos? Im kind of curious not for any bad reason just more inquisitive.

Extensively, shot semi automatic firearms my entire youth, and have shot auto pistol (cz sp01) in comp for over 5 years, have fired many full auto firearms too many many times, great fun, MP5 is a personal favourite, however uzi, mac-10, Kriss vector, Chinese made pkm and ak-47 all make the top end of the list as well, not so much the M16, well not the jammy mc jam jam ones I've fired, I've also used pistols and SMG used by Filipino police to despatch of those bent on spreading drugs and violence around the province,

Other notable experience is being in the reserves when finishing high school doing preliminary training (at the time I intended to join one of the wings of the Military, changed my mind after a hereditary vascular issue hindered that and there not being a satisfactory surgery for that at the time) clay target shooting with a Benelli auto for 4 years and even fired an RPG once.

That suffice to ease your curiosity?

It does actually and thank you. See my exposure to them is in a professional setting and that's where i think they belong. In the hands of professionals. Whereas yourself you have had exposure partially professionally but mainly in a recreational setting and this is where our views differ.

[Sergeant Hartman]

Let me make a few stats up.

90% of those older than 45 don't really care about semi autos.
75% of people who had semi autos before buyback are not yearning for them.
99% of Australian population do not want other citizens to be armed with semi auto or full auto rifles.

While those numbers are not true, but the reality is closer to those numbers.

[CAVEMAN]

Caveman mate i dunno if you intended it this way... but i had a real chuckle.

And even countries with similar gun laws typically allow rimfire semis, there far more innocent

Anyway i see zeig is being is paranoid self, anyone who doesn't want a full auto must be a GCA stooge.

Actually stretching the friendship, i am surprised all this talk about semi auto.... what head the full auto done to you... outs not good enough for you to spend your hard earned $$$$.

The rest i agree with tassie, deja vu

Its a bit of tongue in cheek but they are the innocent of the firearms worlds. Not many people see rimfire as a scary thing, its often reminds them of that time as a kid they shot granddads down the back of the farm. They don't have that media stigma, are they still a firearm yes. But there also honestly on the low end.

Some examples being the UK with renowned strict gun laws like ourselves still allow them, and after the tragedy in NZ they are also still permitted. Same with pumps, and semi shotguns up to 5 rounds. So this is where i think we actually have grounds as our close association with these countries could be looked at as an example for how those categories could be changed.

[Oldbloke]

Just to be clear i do want more people to be able to have access to self loading firearms in Aus. I do see legitimate genuine needs that are not accounted for in the current cat C/D regulations.

What I’m against is having weak gun laws. the US is a clear example of that and a path no-one wants to go down.
If theres antis on the forum the best cover they could have and the most harm they could cause would be to promote exactly that.
Representing us as wanting gun laws relaxed just like in the USA is the most damaging thing anyone could do on an Australian gun forum.

Thumbs-up .jpg (13.64 KiB) Viewed 4328 times

[AussieCapitalist]

Just to be clear i do want more people to be able to have access to self loading firearms in Aus. I do see legitimate genuine needs that are not accounted for in the current cat C/D regulations.

What I’m against is having weak gun laws. the US is a clear example of that and a path no-one wants to go down.
If theres antis on the forum the best cover they could have and the most harm they could cause would be to promote exactly that.
Representing us as wanting gun laws relaxed just like in the USA is the most damaging thing anyone could do on an Australian gun forum.

Speak for yourself mate. I would love to have American gun laws. Even California, New York and New Jersey the worst of the worst have better laws than we do in Australia. Dont blame the tool for the actions of the user. 4 cops killed by a truck. Lets restrict trucks....... Oh and old mate in Melbourne that used his commodore to run people down a few years ago. Lets ban Commodores.

So called mass shootings are kind of like a plane crash. People freak out because it has a high death toll but the reality is they are rare outlier events. People dont freak out about all the murders that go on every day that you never really hear about.

[AussieCapitalist]

New Zealand had literally everything. Semi auto and collectors could have full auto that are NOT deactivated like in Australia until horse face commy changed all that last year. Their election is coming up and the people are really unhappy with her.

[CAVEMAN]

AussieCapitalist may i also ask your level of experience with such firearms if you don't mind?

[AussieCapitalist]

AussieCapitalist may i also ask your level of experience with such firearms if you don't mind?

We had a lot of firearms when I was a lad. Mum and my grandfather were right into plinking on their farm. They and my uncles had everything from 10/22s, mini 14s, sks, colt rifles, slrs and pump and self loading shotguns. It sickens me to admit but I use to be a soft co*k lefty who voted for labor as I new no better. I had an epiphany a while ago when I was working in the USA. My mind was blown to the concepts of personal liberty, personal responsibility and self preservation.

I now yearn for maximum freedom and minimal government. What another adult does with their life has no bearing on mine so long as they are not causing harm to others. Australians mostly love to be told what to do by big government instead of thinking for themselves. I am trying to politically change that mindset so people are more self sufficient than dependent on big government to tell them what to do.The human spirit works best when free of the restraints of an overbearing government. I am not a mentally challenged child. I do not need a government to tell me what is best for me. I can think for myself and provide for my family on my own.

[Ziege]

"I'm against weak gun laws" - Womble 2020

You do realise there are over 20,000 "gun laws " in the United states collectively, where's the weak part?


Exceedingly clear you don't know what you're on about, I implore everyone to /disregard Wombles worry wart bs

[AussieCapitalist]

In regards to voting for labor, the labor of days gone are not the labor of today. They use to be socially conservative family based patriots who were fiscally a bit more worker based. Now they are just full blown the party of inner city leftist elitist type people who parody the greens with their insanity.

[CAVEMAN]

Well maybe another way to look at that is maybe its not the laws of the country that needs to change, but rather the country that you live. I understand people not wanting to be told what to do, but at the same time as humans we do need rules from the minor to the severe. Maybe aa change in scenery is a better choice for someone like yourself.

This is by no means a dig at you, just my grasping of the situation you just said.

I personally am happy with a society governed by appropriate rules. I like knowing peoples cars are mostly safe and legal. I like knowing my food is of a certain quality. I like knowing that there is a police force there to protect the community and i don't need to. But i feel comfortable with these rules and also feel safe.

[Ziege]

What you (Caveman), Womble and the others who love to be policed don't see, and can't tell the difference between is liberty and slavery.

If you have been anywhere that has recovered from a dictatorship, empireal rule of the socialist/communist kind, or totalitarian control of any sort you will find conclusively that they would rather die on their feet than live on their knees, it's subtle here in Australia, less subtle now in Canada and not subtle in the UK, but what is intrinsically true about all of them is that they are dictatorships in as much as how the people are limited in almost every way, everything is legislated, everything is restricted. A person from a former dictatorship looking at how we live just cringes.

Iv had more than a few of my overseas pals who are from such places telling me they don't know how I or anyone else can tolerate living like this. See like it or not, you're all pandering to a form of tyranny, and not the tin foil hat kind, the 1996 gun ban was nothing more than just that, the overlord cracking the whip over the serfs because one of them got out of line so they are all punished, that's how sick and twisted it really is.

[AussieCapitalist]

Well maybe another way to look at that is maybe its not the laws of the country that needs to change, but rather the country that you live. I understand people not wanting to be told what to do, but at the same time as humans we do need rules from the minor to the severe. Maybe aa change in scenery is a better choice for someone like yourself.

This is by no means a dig at you, just my grasping of the situation you just said.

I personally am happy with a society governed by appropriate rules. I like knowing peoples cars are mostly safe and legal. I like knowing my food is of a certain quality. I like knowing that there is a police force there to protect the community and i don't need to. But i feel comfortable with these rules and also feel safe.

Remember though Caveman community safety is every bodies responsibility. Thats why the concept of a well armed militia is vital to a safe society because ultimately it is we the people who must police the government as they are our employees.

QLD is my home mate and I love it but it is not the QLD I grew up in. It seems foreign to what it use to be. Things have changed for the worse in every way. If things get worse and more laws are brought in I may have to be a political refugee and claim political asylum in America. I know that sounds silly but I worry what the future holds living in this country. We literally dont even have freedom of speech.

[bigrich]

In regards to voting for labor, the labor of days gone are not the labor of today. They use to be socially conservative family based patriots who were fiscally a bit more worker based. Now they are just full blown the party of inner city leftist elitist type people who parody the greens with their insanity.

AGREE 1000% !

[Blackened]

I've just deleted 15 posts arguing about the size of angle grinder discs in a topic about firearm law reform... If you're arguing about this you've clearly gone past the point of constructively contributing to the conversation and just have your knickers in a twist that someone else doesn't agree with your opinion.

To those involved... Not everyone agrees with you. Get over it.

Tone down the agro and keep it on topics. If you can't, don't participate in the topic any longer.

[bigrich]

Thanks for stepping in blackened . Caveman started this post to look at realistic firearm reform in this country, and to his credit, tried to understand his critics . Unity ,which is what’s needed to make headway with reform was not really apparent . Instead of ranting online some folks need to become members of pro active firearms clubs/groups that will lobby politicians for reform. Pauline Hanson wanted to get semi auto 22’s and pump shotty’s reveiwed. Love or hate her, with tens of thousands of gun club members united behind her the pollies would have to listen

JMHO

[Ziege]

Well unity is impossible given the representation of firearm owners in this country, one wants semi automatic firearms and ten more shut them down about not "needing it" until that attitude f#cks off there will be no unity.

[Farmerpete]

Well unity is impossible given the representation of firearm owners in this country, one wants semi automatic firearms and ten more shut them down about not "needing it" until that attitude f#cks off there will be no unity.

Maybe this problem should be addressed by the ssaa or shooters union via a poll of their members get a list of what reforms are specifically wanted to be reviewed and then work towards that, publishing the list and the priority among shooters would go far towards uniting us all.

[Blackened]

Already this is going down the same path as before the warning.

Locked.