Sunday thoughts, Realistic NFA Reform

Questions about Queensland gun and ammunition laws. QLD Weapons Act 1990.

Re: Sunday thoughts, Realistic NFA Reform

Post by AussieCapitalist » 18 May 2020, 1:18 pm

Blows my mind how grown men and women think they can dictate to other people what they can and can not do with their own currency. Shows how arrogant and narcissistic they are. We were told who people marry is nobodies business and harms nobody so the laws were changed. So why should peoples preferred action bother other people? Do not buy an automatic if the action is not for you but do not tell other people who want one that they cant. I never tell people to not buy a prius even though I never would. Buy one if it makes you happy.
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Re: Sunday thoughts, Realistic NFA Reform

Post by TassieTiger » 18 May 2020, 1:23 pm

I’d like to be able to buy dynamite and artillery...but I can’t. Well, I could buy dynamite after the hoop jumping but still. Somewhere there has to be a line...I personally don’t believe that line is with shoulder mounted arms (especially given the hoops to get arms as it is) but that’s one of 20 million opinions.
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Re: Sunday thoughts, Realistic NFA Reform

Post by CAVEMAN » 18 May 2020, 1:45 pm

AussieCapitalist wrote:Blows my mind how grown men and women think they can dictate to other people what they can and can not do with their own currency. Shows how arrogant and narcissistic they are. We were told who people marry is nobodies business and harms nobody so the laws were changed. So why should peoples preferred action bother other people? Do not buy an automatic if the action is not for you but do not tell other people who want one that they cant. I never tell people to not buy a prius even though I never would. Buy one if it makes you happy.


There just opinions, and this is the place to have a dialogue about it. And as humans we can have them. We live in a society governed by rules and the reason i opened this thread was to discuss and see others people opinions was on the subject.

I hold a certain view because i don't have the same views on self defense and certain firearms, partially based on my background and lifestyle. Hence the reason for the thread. My opinion on realistic change is one thing and yours is something else. But this is where we need to meet in the middle as a bigger group but sometimes the divide is large. No different to other things that divide us like choice in car or political views. Were all individuals.

Which is what i've seen so far, theirs people like myself that fell the laws are adequate and would like modification in some ways. Whereas someone like yourself would like to see a different change. And then people at all points in between.
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Re: Sunday thoughts, Realistic NFA Reform

Post by CAVEMAN » 18 May 2020, 1:58 pm

TassieTiger wrote:It’s probably not plausible - but it would really be interesting to nominate “our” top 10 law changes / wish list and then poll the priority’s on that list...I wonder what the top 3-5 would be...I’m guessing, appearance laws and moderators would be top 2, but after that, everybody’s needs and wants would splinter somewhat...


See that's an interesting one, because of state by sate regulations i don't even really think about appearance laws because it doesn't affect me directly in QLD. I'm empathetic for those who are restricted by it but its not at the front of my mind, plus i have a fetish for blued steel and timber.

My top two would actually be nationalized standards so were all playing off the same sheet of music as number one.
Then probably a tie between moderators becoming a Cat B item or Pumps being brought back to cat B as number two.

These are based on things that effect me or something id like to see change, and that's why there my views. Now thinking about it the standardization and nationalization is probably something i would like to see most so we all know where we stand. And it may help to bring us all together.
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Re: Sunday thoughts, Realistic NFA Reform

Post by womble » 18 May 2020, 4:13 pm

Nope. Nationalised standards probably means we all get SA.

Moderators got rejected recently Qld
Semi-auto rim fire got rejected recently Tas.

Weakest link in the totem pole is easilly appearance laws. Even ssaa push for some clarity there.

I’d say a good start would be the protect what we have left. Put all differences aside and unite whenever the anti’s try and take a little bite.
Because that’s what they do. Just little bites at a time. Remove one round from a magazine. Silly little things. But every year the front line gets pushed back a little more.
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Re: Sunday thoughts, Realistic NFA Reform

Post by bigrich » 18 May 2020, 4:19 pm

well , there's a lot of good constructive opinions and ideas on this post , all we need now is a advocate group or organization to try to get changes made through the politicians . that's the sticking point. auntie pauline has already stated in the past a review of semi auto 22's and i think pump shotguns was on her agenda . trying to get support from other politicians to amend the laws will just about be impossible without preasure from groups like shooters union , national firearms council and ssaa . i like the idea of a national standard law, so long as it's not like WA's laws ;) . sound suppressors make perfect sense from a OH and S point of veiw at the very least. appearance laws are PC crap gone mad . it's the function of a fiream that's important to law, not it's look . if i paint my 30-30 winchester matt black , red dot it, skeleton butt stock and mount a fake grenade launcher under the barrel , it won't change it's function , well the red dot might make it quicker for snap shooting :D however GCA might run in terror at the mere sight of it ..... :lol:

myself , i've joined shooters union on top of already being ssaa member, and i'm looking into the NSC . voter numbers and money are the things that motivate politicians unfortunately :roll:

well that's my modest veiws anyway

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Re: Sunday thoughts, Realistic NFA Reform

Post by bigrich » 18 May 2020, 4:23 pm

womble wrote:Nope. Nationalised standards probably means we all get SA.

Moderators got rejected recently Qld
Semi-auto rim fire got rejected recently Tas.

Weakest link in the totem pole is easilly appearance laws. Even ssaa push for some clarity there.

I’d say a good start would be the protect what we have left. Put all differences aside and unite whenever the anti’s try and take a little bite.
Because that’s what they do. Just little bites at a time. Remove one round from a magazine. Silly little things. But every year the front line gets pushed back a little more.


your absolutely right that unity with firearms groups would be a good start :thumbsup:
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Re: Sunday thoughts, Realistic NFA Reform

Post by womble » 18 May 2020, 4:24 pm

Our numbers are not so small anymore. And they’ve been snowballing for the past half dozen years. I think theres a lot more city people taking up target shooting, they have no interest in hunting. But I’d say the crime waves in major cities probably have something to do with it. Although none would openly admit it.
Still, numbers are definitely growing fast. Official figures probably don’t reflect the true numbers.
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Re: Sunday thoughts, Realistic NFA Reform

Post by womble » 18 May 2020, 4:31 pm

I don’t even know how many groups we have have fighting individually for our rights.
It would be good if a national conference could be organised. Where all differences could be put asside, albeit temporarily.
But an agreement must be met that all stand together whenever one or all is threatened.
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Re: Sunday thoughts, Realistic NFA Reform

Post by AussieCapitalist » 18 May 2020, 4:42 pm

womble wrote:Nope. Nationalised standards probably means we all get SA.

Moderators got rejected recently Qld
Semi-auto rim fire got rejected recently Tas.

Weakest link in the totem pole is easilly appearance laws. Even ssaa push for some clarity there.

I’d say a good start would be the protect what we have left. Put all differences aside and unite whenever the anti’s try and take a little bite.
Because that’s what they do. Just little bites at a time. Remove one round from a magazine. Silly little things. But every year the front line gets pushed back a little more.


Protect what we have left? How has that worked out for shooters? First it started with self loading long arms. Then The handgun minimum shoots and caliber limits and only shooting pistols at clubs. Then the riverman bans and the adler etc. What next? We are not protecting what we have, things have gotten worse since 1996 and continue to do so. It has been constant molestation since 1996. Thats why I have a zero inch policy because if you give up an inch they will take everything. The line in the sand for me is everything must be available or eventually everything will be lost.

Whats next to be banned? Pump action rifles and lever action long arms?

The time for protecting what we have left is over and we need to fight(politically) to get back pre 1996 laws and beyond.
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Re: Sunday thoughts, Realistic NFA Reform

Post by AussieCapitalist » 18 May 2020, 4:52 pm

The first thing that needs to go is the registry. It costs a mint and achieves nothing. Other countries have had them and got rid of them because it is a waste of money. Seeing as criminals do not obtain their firearms legally it does nothing but waste hundreds of millions of dollars.
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Re: Sunday thoughts, Realistic NFA Reform

Post by bigrich » 18 May 2020, 5:17 pm

AussieCapitalist wrote:The first thing that needs to go is the registry. It costs a mint and achieves nothing. Other countries have had them and got rid of them because it is a waste of money. Seeing as criminals do not obtain their firearms legally it does nothing but waste hundreds of millions of dollars.


in the modern PC world doing away with the registry is not going to happen .politicians like to give the non shooting public the impression that their tough on gun control , getting rid of the registry would be political suicide for any polly who tried . unity amongst all firearm owners is the only thing that could make a difference . voter numbers are what gets a politicians attention , not facts or the reason that your right ;) the federal police seem to hide the fact that a lot of the criminals guns are being smuggled in illegally .

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Re: Sunday thoughts, Realistic NFA Reform

Post by rc42 » 18 May 2020, 5:19 pm

Even in theory the only use for gun registration is if your gun is stolen and eventually recovered by the police they will know who to return it to, really not worth the millions each year that it costs.

In reality they want to track who has what type of firearm so that when restrictions change or guns are re-classified they know who has one that needs to be confiscated.
That seems to be worth the cost to some governments but others are deciding that it's not.
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Re: Sunday thoughts, Realistic NFA Reform

Post by womble » 18 May 2020, 5:34 pm

How are you going to convince the other 99.999999999 % of the public that your zero inch policy is the way to go.

If you were to poll the general public today you’d have 90% or higher supporting tougher gun laws. Because they’ve come to that conclusion from watching gun crime on the nightly news.

How are you going to relate your policy to them. Because like it or not you need them.

There is no side stepping tough gun laws in Australia. Period.
The global research is beyond dispute. There is a direct correlation to gun violence and permissive legislation. The more restrictive the legislation, the lower the numbers. It’s entirely irrefutable. There are no anomalies.

You cannot fight the system we have here because evidently it has worked. The numbers have spoken.

We need to take ownership of the system from within. Then we can put forward sensible and logical amendments that can not be perceived as weakening the system.
It is riddled with faults, inconsistencies and ignorance at times bordering malice
. We need a voice at that table.
There are genuine and reasonable arguments to be made that can affect change at no expense or harm done to the integrity of the system.
Pathways can be made within the existing infrastructure. But if you just denounce it you’ve allready lost.
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Re: Sunday thoughts, Realistic NFA Reform

Post by CAVEMAN » 18 May 2020, 5:38 pm

bigrich wrote:well , there's a lot of good constructive opinions and ideas on this post , all we need now is a advocate group or organization to try to get changes made through the politicians . that's the sticking point. auntie pauline has already stated in the past a review of semi auto 22's and i think pump shotguns was on her agenda . trying to get support from other politicians to amend the laws will just about be impossible without preasure from groups like shooters union , national firearms council and ssaa . i like the idea of a national standard law, so long as it's not like WA's laws ;) . sound suppressors make perfect sense from a OH and S point of veiw at the very least. appearance laws are PC crap gone mad . it's the function of a fiream that's important to law, not it's look . if i paint my 30-30 winchester matt black , red dot it, skeleton butt stock and mount a fake grenade launcher under the barrel , it won't change it's function , well the red dot might make it quicker for snap shooting :D however GCA might run in terror at the mere sight of it ..... :lol:

myself , i've joined shooters union on top of already being ssaa member, and i'm looking into the NSC . voter numbers and money are the things that motivate politicians unfortunately :roll:

well that's my modest veiws anyway

:drinks: :drinks: :thumbsup:


I watched a video today on Harley Davidson and i think it might nearly fit with the SSAA as well. They still have a place and they still have a reason to exist but is it what we need today. Harley's sales are steadily dropping from a mix of there target audience getting older and not so appealing to the new generations, and also just being made noncompetitive by the market.

Maybe a new group to unify us for a new decade and more so a new century nearly a quarter century since our last major change. I'm starting to think the shooters union or the NSC might be the voice for this but we will all need to get behind them. Unity is the thing we need more than anything.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOwxxsPaogY
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Re: Sunday thoughts, Realistic NFA Reform

Post by Sergeant Hartman » 18 May 2020, 7:41 pm

AussieCapitalist wrote:Blows my mind how grown men and women think they can dictate to other people what they can and can not do with their own currency. Shows how arrogant and narcissistic they are.


Yeah man i agree, i wanted to buy some radio active material to make a bomb and asio was knocking on my door... and i as a taxpayer pay their wages, they were so rude put me handcuffs and shoved me in their divyvan
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Re: Sunday thoughts, Realistic NFA Reform

Post by Ziege » 18 May 2020, 9:51 pm

womble wrote:How are you going to convince the other 99.999999999 % of the public that your zero inch policy is the way to go.

If you were to poll the general public today you’d have 90% or higher supporting tougher gun laws. Because they’ve come to that conclusion from watching gun crime on the nightly news.

How are you going to relate your policy to them. Because like it or not you need them.

There is no side stepping tough gun laws in Australia. Period.
The global research is beyond dispute. There is a direct correlation to gun violence and permissive legislation. The more restrictive the legislation, the lower the numbers. It’s entirely irrefutable. There are no anomalies.

You cannot fight the system we have here because evidently it has worked. The numbers have spoken.

We need to take ownership of the system from within. Then we can put forward sensible and logical amendments that can not be perceived as weakening the system.
It is riddled with faults, inconsistencies and ignorance at times bordering malice
. We need a voice at that table.
There are genuine and reasonable arguments to be made that can affect change at no expense or harm done to the integrity of the system.
Pathways can be made within the existing infrastructure. But if you just denounce it you’ve allready lost.



Close to 14% or more by now of the population are either firearm owners, users, co-signed,or live Ina home with a firearm owner. So where the hell do you get convincing "99.999*%" of the population from?

I know you made a false statistic to exaggerate your point. But instead you have illustrated a huge problem with your "point", there is a huge proponent of the population who are gun friendly, you're literally disregarding all of them.
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Re: Sunday thoughts, Realistic NFA Reform

Post by Ziege » 18 May 2020, 10:03 pm

Sorry Womble but you're very far off base with a lot of your claims... Honduras for one completely refutes your theory. I can't take you seriously at all mate. Sorry
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Re: Sunday thoughts, Realistic NFA Reform

Post by Farmerpete » 18 May 2020, 10:22 pm

Seeing as the state makes the rules and seeing as there's a push for North qld to split from Brisbane and seeing as Bob katter is the ruler of North QLD maybe our best chance is to push for the split and lobby kap for decent laws
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Re: Sunday thoughts, Realistic NFA Reform

Post by Ziege » 18 May 2020, 10:29 pm

Do it then set precedent for the rest of the country to follow
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Re: Sunday thoughts, Realistic NFA Reform

Post by womble » 19 May 2020, 3:52 am

Honduras was a pretty poor example Ziege. Holds the current title for highest homicide rates per capital in the world, with 80% of homicides committed by firearm.
137.5 murders per 100,000.
Permissive firearm regulations.

Care to play again ?
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Re: Sunday thoughts, Realistic NFA Reform

Post by womble » 19 May 2020, 3:59 am

The percentage i quoted was intended for aussiecaps idealism where everyone should be allowed to have a spare machine gun in every room of the home. Scrapping of the laws.
Point being you can’t sell it to the other 99.etc percent. I do agree we have the numbers with ownership for a very powerful union.
But i think the power comes from demonstrating lfos are from every walk of life, just like you and me and everyone else.
Because this union has to be relatable to everyone.
The 14% or more firearm ownership given by Ziege is very pleasing news. And therein lies the key to open some doors.
Now how to tap into that and unite it.
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Re: Sunday thoughts, Realistic NFA Reform

Post by womble » 19 May 2020, 4:03 am

This is a good start for those that actually want to do their own research. As it’s not biased to any particular study groups but intended as a combination of all sources. https://www.gunpolicy.org/
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Re: Sunday thoughts, Realistic NFA Reform

Post by womble » 19 May 2020, 4:07 am

And there we go 2018 deaths relating from firearms 0.88 per 100,000
What was Honduras again ?
Can only find gun homicide 2018 at 28.65 per 100,000. Top of the charts baby.
Here’s a graph, take into account the drop off around 2010 onwards, when they actually decided some degree of firearm relugation was necessary.
Prior to say 2008 it was open carry whatever the f*** you like anything goes
https://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/compareyears/79/rate_of_gun_homicide
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Re: Sunday thoughts, Realistic NFA Reform

Post by AussieCapitalist » 19 May 2020, 7:35 am

This 40k gun deaths a year the media love to say about the USA is grossly misleading. 60% are suicides with a few thousand more just gang on gang crime. And then the majority of the crime is committed with handguns. Have a look at these homicide stats from the FBI website. More people are murdered with fists and feet than rifles. The USA is no more dangerous than anywhere else in the world.

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/20 ... able-8.xls
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2 ... n-the-u-s/
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Re: Sunday thoughts, Realistic NFA Reform

Post by Oldbloke » 19 May 2020, 8:12 am

Sergeant Hartman wrote:
AussieCapitalist wrote:Blows my mind how grown men and women think they can dictate to other people what they can and can not do with their own currency. Shows how arrogant and narcissistic they are.


Yeah man i agree, i wanted to buy some radio active material to make a bomb and asio was knocking on my door... and i as a taxpayer pay their wages, they were so rude put me handcuffs and shoved me in their divyvan


:clap: :clap: :clap:

Bastards if I were you I'd write a letter to your local MP and complain. I had the same problem when I worked out how to synthesis cyanide in the back shed. They cpme and took all my lab equipment. Pricks.

But they didn't get the 10 test tubes of Streptococcus pyogenes I've been nurturing in my incubator. I win . :thumbsup:
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Re: Sunday thoughts, Realistic NFA Reform

Post by Ziege » 19 May 2020, 8:28 am

womble wrote:Honduras was a pretty poor example Ziege. Holds the current title for highest homicide rates per capital in the world, with 80% of homicides committed by firearm.
137.5 murders per 100,000.
Permissive firearm regulations.

Care to play again ?



Been to Honduras have you? You do realise civilians can't legally own firearms...

You fail again
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Re: Sunday thoughts, Realistic NFA Reform

Post by AussieCapitalist » 19 May 2020, 8:34 am

Mexico is a funny one. They have a constitutional right just like the USA does to bear arms. However in practice they literally have only one gun store in the whole country that sells less than 40 firearms a day. Yet Mexico cartels are armed to the teeth and kill everybody. Remember that gun battle last year when the police retreated because the cartel brought out their auto 50 cals. Mexico is a failed state.

https://www.latimes.com/world/la-fg-mex ... story.html

https://www.foxnews.com/world/mexico-pr ... l-gunfight
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Re: Sunday thoughts, Realistic NFA Reform

Post by Oldbloke » 19 May 2020, 8:35 am

Sooo in 2017 there was a total of 15,129 murders and ONLY 10,983 of those were fire armrelated. Mostly handguns.

You just convinced me its ok for anyone to buy a fully automatic firearms and as many hand guns as they want. :sarcasm:
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Re: Sunday thoughts, Realistic NFA Reform

Post by Ziege » 19 May 2020, 8:37 am

Also you can't explain the many other anomalies that the FBI do very much have solid and irrefutable evidence of. That and you are disregarding central and eastern Europe greatly, I won't go into detail because I have a 1.5hr drive to work, but let's just say more permissable than most of what you're crapping on about and they gained that in recent times, after losing it, proof that those times are "in the past", With homicide rates as low as ours.

Hell even the elephant in the room, the USA, hasn't actually got that much of a firearm death issue. When it comes to people who procured their firearm legally, went through background checks and so on, they dwindle right down to in some years the hundreds not thousands of people per year, you're trying to throw us in with criminals in your assertions and that's woefully petty. And a firearm death rate of only a few hundred per 400 million ain't bad at all. Once of course you filter out the stuff that isn't related to Lafo and such, you know the suicide that would happen anyway, terrorism that would happen anyway, street gangs, cartels, organised crime, accidental shootings (which are in the total), as well as justifiable homicide, all which don't belong in that statistic. Permissible gun laws have sweet f*** all to do with any of it. Because as you should see, if not being grossly bias and ignorant, is that like here, the vast majority of their gun related issues aren't gun related at all. Especially not related to legal procurement.
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