QLD, are you a fit and proper person?

Questions about Queensland gun and ammunition laws. QLD Weapons Act 1990.

QLD, are you a fit and proper person?

Post by Oldbloke » 01 Jan 2021, 8:24 pm

Changes coming. All QLD members should read.

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Re: QLD, are you a fit and proper person?

Post by JimTom » 01 Jan 2021, 8:36 pm

I have no problem with the QLD Gov keeping firearms out of the hands of sh1tbags.
What I do object too, is criteria / legislation being changed for the sake of restricting firearms to law abiding users.
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Re: QLD, are you a fit and proper person?

Post by GQshayne » 01 Jan 2021, 9:34 pm

It is a fine line though. Once again, what other group is judged in a similar manner?????
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Re: QLD, are you a fit and proper person?

Post by No1_49er » 01 Jan 2021, 9:36 pm

If that's all there is to it, then any of those precursors that might cause rejection don't seem unreasonable.
"Changes coming"? Is there any real problem with the likes of those d1rtbags not getting or retaining a licence. They're not "small" infractions. Are they?
If any of this is a problem, as you perceive it to be 'Oldbloke', please expand on what seems to be of concern.
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Re: QLD, are you a fit and proper person?

Post by Oldbloke » 01 Jan 2021, 9:47 pm

No1_49er wrote:If that's all there is to it, then any of those precursors that might cause rejection don't seem unreasonable.
"Changes coming"? Is there any real problem with the likes of those d1rtbags not getting or retaining a licence. They're not "small" infractions. Are they?
If any of this is a problem, as you perceive it to be 'Oldbloke', please expand on what seems to be of concern.


I can't win can I. I was simply passing on the info for QLD members.

I don't have an opinion TBO.

It wasn't so long ago I was criticised for not sharing info by certain members here. So now I gave a "problem" because I posted it. Pls note I made no comment except that there were changes.
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Re: QLD, are you a fit and proper person?

Post by rc42 » 01 Jan 2021, 10:44 pm

My concern with the changes would be for anyone that made a genuine mistake on a form or other document will no longer be able to explain their mistake but instead get an automatic rejection and become ineligible for at least 5 years, plus the likely confiscation of any existing firearms without compensation.

The previous 'show cause' gave a fair and reasonable assessment of the circumstances but the automatic rejection, no further questions asked seems to be just wrong, hopefully there will be successful appeals through QCAT where this is applied unfairly.


The bulk of the audit report focused on WLB internal failures, hopefully they will be addressing those with a similar enthusiasm to their new policy for rejecting more applications. The meaning of 'fit and proper person' has been considered extensively in previous QCAT deliberations.
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Re: QLD, are you a fit and proper person?

Post by Blr243 » 01 Jan 2021, 11:33 pm

I had a read of the print above and I reckon I would have to be about 10 time’s more naughtier than I already am before I have to worry
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Re: QLD, are you a fit and proper person?

Post by Farmerpete » 02 Jan 2021, 12:37 am

I forgot to renew my driver's license and got booked for unlicensed driving it comes under the "hoon" laws, renewed it the next day but now I'm technically a hoon who has no real respect for the law.
I'd hate to have to go to qcat and appeal my firearms licence being revoked for forgetting to renew my driver's license
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Re: QLD, are you a fit and proper person?

Post by Oldbloke » 02 Jan 2021, 8:50 am

Looks like some of it will be retrospective up to 5 years.

Why didn't every QLD licence holder get a copy of this in the letterbox? Govs do that all the time.
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Re: QLD, are you a fit and proper person?

Post by trekin » 02 Jan 2021, 9:05 am

Oldbloke wrote:Looks like some of it will be retrospective up to 5 years.

Why didn't every QLD licence holder get a copy of this in the letterbox? Govs do that all the time.

Because this is not a change in the "LAW" (which is very deliberately grey), but a change in WLB's Policies and Procedures in applying the law. However, you are correct in that the changes are overreaching and borderline illegal (not within the intentions of the Act), and all QLD legal shooters should be concerned and contacting the Police Minister to voice their concerns and objections to this further vilification.
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Re: QLD, are you a fit and proper person?

Post by Oldbloke » 02 Jan 2021, 9:10 am

trekin wrote:
Oldbloke wrote:Looks like some of it will be retrospective up to 5 years.

Why didn't every QLD licence holder get a copy of this in the letterbox? Govs do that all the time.

Because this is not a change in the "LAW" (which is very deliberately grey), but a change in WLB's Policies and Procedures in applying the law. However, you are correct in that the changes are overreaching and borderline illegal (not within the intentions of the Act), and all QLD legal shooters should be concerned and contacting the Police Minister to voice their concerns and objections to this further vilification.



I didn't say that. You did.
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Re: QLD, are you a fit and proper person?

Post by JimTom » 02 Jan 2021, 9:50 am

GQshayne wrote:It is a fine line though. Once again, what other group is judged in a similar manner?????


100% correct mate.I fully agree on both counts.
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Re: QLD, are you a fit and proper person?

Post by JimTom » 02 Jan 2021, 11:13 am

Thanks for posting too Oldbloke.
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Re: QLD, are you a fit and proper person?

Post by Blr243 » 02 Jan 2021, 2:37 pm

The print mentioned accumulation of 30 demerit points in 5 year period might draw attention. If a ticket gets you 3 points , a couple of tickets per year could be some grief ..... I better keep driving my Deisel hilux and forget about getting a Lamborghini
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Re: QLD, are you a fit and proper person?

Post by Oldbloke » 02 Jan 2021, 8:34 pm

30 points is a lot. A red light is 3 i believe.
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Re: QLD, are you a fit and proper person?

Post by womble » 03 Jan 2021, 2:35 am

Given that firearms legislation here generally makes no sense to the people that own firearms anyway, then Yeah whatever dose’nt bother me. Keep trying. I love guns, you won’t change me. Despite all the firearms act implies, I’m not a bad person, I’m not a criminal.

I’ve heard worse. Appearance laws, pistol grips, noise suppression, confusing categories, bewildering variations in different states, all manner of pointless and ineffective regulations that seemingly only serve to harass, encumber, impede and hinder my legitimate use of firearms.
Seemingly by design call into question my good character and seek to define me as a dubious or undesirable citizen.

Keep trying, water of a ducks back to me. You won’t change who i am, nor am i doing any wrongdoing or anything in any way harmful to my community or as a citizen.

But haters gonna hate, peace out.
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Re: QLD, are you a fit and proper person?

Post by on_one_wheel » 03 Jan 2021, 8:36 am

I'm sure they'll be plenty of people caught out by that.
There's been a huge increase in false claims of DV to get a protection order in place.
It is becoming the standard procedure to gain an advantage in child custody battles.
Unfortunately most people who have one put on them can't afford to fight it.
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Re: QLD, are you a fit and proper person?

Post by GQshayne » 03 Jan 2021, 7:27 pm

Yes, the DV legislation is poor. There are too many instances of owners losing licenses and firearms for no necessary reason. My recollection is that it is only 1% (or a similar low number) of DV in Australia involves licensed firearm owners. So immediately confiscating firearms without consideration is not really going to make much difference.
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Re: QLD, are you a fit and proper person?

Post by ShotgunRifleorBoth » 03 Jan 2021, 7:56 pm

It is interesting that they are applying traffic history as a defining 'anti-social' behaviour, for a firearms licence, when a traffic history also relates to the amount of time spent driving, and the places where you drive...

It is also interesting that the are expanding the DV laws beyond the time the DV actually applies (is that double jeapordy); our DV laws are used and abused, which is what makes it so difficult for the courts (people lie, some use the system as a weapon, some people cannot afford the cost of a solicitor, and don't fight lies, or think that it will get them access to their kids if they don't fight it, etc).

So speeding, traffic offences, as now defined as 'anti-social behaviour'... which is strange considering the case law which determined that speed alone is not dangerous, it is speed in the conditions (and that dangerous speed may be lower than the speed limit, depending on the conditions). Hands up all those who had a hot car (which now, apparently, defines a 'hoon') when they were young! Keep your hand up if you ever did a burn out... or broke a speed limit... bet you never knew you were 'anti-social' (and if you were with others, socialising, that makes the 'anti-social' definition a bit queer).

I understand the review determined that the Qld Police had failed to use their crystal ball to determine the potential future offences of some people issued licenses; as a result the QPS decided to slow down the issue of new licenses, as well as expand their definition of 'unsuitable' people, to counter this criticism (heaven prevent the Police simply standing up and saying they don't have a crystal ball, instead they just make the whimpish 'we will do better' thing, and 'adjust' the rules); maybe an improved court system, and 'real' punishment, no matter the age of the offender, would address these issues (however that is politically unpalatable in a time of the offender is a victim, too).

This is our 'new world' where the thought Police have to devine that you may, at some time in the future, possibly commit an offence, possibly with a legally owned firearm (like there aren't many illegal firearms around), and they may 'possibly' prevent this future offence by not issuing a licence.

The politics of Policing places the Police in an unwinable position, they are the meat in the sandwich; interest groups that believe stopping licence issuing will stop offences misinterpret data (including that firearms are used in suicides, which count as gun deaths, and that criminals apply for licenses, and use registered firearms).

The world is an unsafe place, NOT made safer by these actions. If it was we would see a reduction in violence, offences against woman, theft, and break ins... instead these appear to be rising, whilst the 'new' Police system actively discourages making complaints about offences (do you have time to wait on the phone for 20 minutes, before you speak to a public servant, a long way away, who doesn't know the local area, what your talking about, and has no real interest), or engagement with actual Police.

Love the poor young bastard at Alva Beach who calls for a Police, and ambulance, but gets told by the operator that he is just jerking them around, the Police aren't sent... then two blokes die. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-10-15/ ... t/12770288

I've played tiddly winks with armed robbers, with sawn off shotguns (which were illegal, even before firearms licences - and as an aside everyone remember the white card that the Qld Government issued, as a firearms licence 'for life'!? LOL) and they DIDN'T care about the law. I've been shot at by a gent who broke into a gun store (and to be fair, we did eventually shoot him, too); he didn't care about the firearms laws. I've danced with other gents with knives (which were also illegal, when carried without reasonable excuse>> and they didn't care it was illegal).

I am waiting for the Police to be directed to suspend drivers licenses, and deregister cars, as these are used as weapons in disputes, domestic violence, general violence, and crimes like ram raids (yes, I know many are stolen, and not having a licence doesn't stop you driving a car, but that is irrelevant).

There is no personal responsibility, the nanny states has decide you are a risk, a public menace, a future criminal, because it works in China (not enough social points, you can't buy a car, have a job, or even use public transport!); if it 'works' there, why not here!

Remember when we actually enjoyed 'freedom' > you don't know what you have until you lose it!! It is easily legislated away, without a quibble; even better the Police can just rewrite the guidelines!!
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Re: QLD, are you a fit and proper person?

Post by pedro4977 » 03 Jan 2021, 8:42 pm

I could have been shafted by the DV thing. Years ago whilst in the Army in QLD my Defacto was having dramas adjusting to me being home after 5 months away, we had a disageement and she started screaming at me, I didn’t even raise my voice. The busy body old spinster next door rang the cops. They turned up and saw how I was dodging s**t she was throwing at me and restrained her and not me. After asking my name and weather I was a resident, they then asked did I have any weapons in the house. I said no, as before I left I signed them over to my father as I didn’t want to leave them, even locked up in that house without me there. I ended the relationship and kicked her out as it was an army married quarter and in my name, I then had six weeks to move out, either back into the barracks or elsewhere. Two weeks later a policeman turned up at my door and served me with a DVO??? They suspended my firearms licence and carried out an inspection on my fathers place and he was in a different state. I had to write multiple letters, statements and provide a caracter reference from my commanding officer and SSM. ..
I had done nothing wrong but got shafted due to a false statement by a crazy woman. It worked out ok, but cost me a few hundred to get my licence back. (Couple of grand now days I’d reckon)
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