Will semi-auto's come back

[Skinna]

My idea for this is simple if c and d were collapsed into one category we would see more farmers with semi auto centrfires that would probably be the first step, farmers can already (allegedly) access d class so why make a separate class?
When I was a kid my dad had an skk in the shed and would wipe out 10 pigs at a time now your lucky to get two with a bolt and thats only if you're good.
The state government here (qld) just gave Barron river development 50million to study how to get rid of pigs in national parks without hurting native fauna while at the same time denying a petition and turning down revenue from hunters who would pay a fee to go there to solve the problem, the stupidity behind this logic baffles me.
On the plus side having only a shotgun and buckshot to kill pigs with has forced me to improve my stalking skills but still can't get more than 5 because of magazine capacity.

Sorry farmer pete, i think youre way off the mark.
I dont see how going through all that bureaucracy & time in legislation changes to result in having barely a handful more of farmers in each state owning self loaders is going to make a kahoot of difference.

Need to get class c rimfire & shotgun back in the hands of recreational hunters/vermin cullers & sports shooters, without the need for setting up an capitalist enterprise independent of the one in existence on the land it already covers..

For the sake of 3 extra rounds in a magazine, i dont see how that'll change too many farmers minds. It would make absolutely NO difference in aqquiring Cat C/D to any farmers i know thats for sure!.
The difference in numbers between those of us who do actually cull vermin as opposed to farmers who would take up your suggestion would make a measurable & more realistic & proactive difference, & therefor a better goal to aim for in my opinion.

As for what ive highlighted in blue of your post.
I cant help but hear its just about you--no doubt being a farmer. The rest of us casual cullers/hunters do actually make a difference for you blokes, & yet your idea leaves us out entirely. You almost sound like an existing big corporate organisation that apparently "represents ALL shooters" in just wanting to make changes to put the guns you want back in your hands only.

Also, there is nothing stupid about the logic of the firearms laws--if you look at them from the point of disarming the public & removing your choices as a sporting shooter/hunter/firearms enthusiast, they make perfect sense on many levels.

[Blr243]

So if you had a choice between seeing elvis and jimi one night , or getting a cat D licence approved, which would you prefer?

[Farmerpete]

Ok I'll point out the obvious recreational hunting isn't done for eradication its done for fun just take a look at the number of young fellas transporting pigs closer to Brisbane and the fact they cut piglets ears off to make them harder for dogs to catch to see my point, im not saying all rec hunters do that but they ain't spreading naturally and i have seen posts where guys leave sows with piglets alive so the young don't die (again not saying everyone does this) but farmers are interested in eradication not trophies. That's why I do my own pest control.

It's not just about me, the idea is a baby step to achieve loosening of the laws, - if you can make it the status quo that every farmer has one and nothing bad happened maybe you'll get a chance at cat c being given to recreational users, demanding a complete backflip on the 96 laws without any form of evidence isn't going to get you anywhere. The minister will simply repeat to parliament "the gun reforms made in 96 were brought in to keep citizens safe and no review is recommended at this time" sound familiar?its the current police ministers response to every epetition regarding gun laws for the last 5 years why don't you start another one I'll even sign it but just remember the definition of insanity is repeating the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result altering the question might get a different answer

An extra 3 rounds? the skk held 30 20 more than I can get in any centrefire available on a cat a b or c licence, a saiga 12 can hold 20 in a drum mag the mossberg 590m holds 10 thats 15 and 5 more than I can currently have respectively and when it comes to eradication that's a lot more. Instead of acting like a millennial and shouting you want it and its not fair that you dont have it, gaining some actual knowledge of the guns you want unbanned might be a good place to start.

And the stupid logic I was referring to was why pay 50million to a committee when hunters will pay you for the chance to solve your problem? (Just in case you missed it).

I understand your view that the laws are about disarmament but the only way to get a "2nd amendment" or any other alterations into our constitution is via referendum. So even though it sucks, at this point in time, firearm ownership is a privilege not a right. Also on a side note there's no allowance for a third tier of government in the constitution of Australia so local council is completely illegitimate the last time a third tier was put to the public was by the Gillard government that was the second time it got voted down if they bring it up and it fails a third time it can never be proposed again. We have never had a referendum on gun laws in Australia it would be an interesting exercise.

[Ziege]

so much fuddery, i find it almost impossible to believe that there are people within active shooting forums that actually argue for restrictions and make agreement instead of taking exception to the governments very off base restrictions. Even doing the mental gymnastics to keep yourself an optimistic doubter (another type of fudd) is just ridiculous, the lgbt+ lobby didnt get where it is by pandering, neither did any other cause, the only cause I am familiar with who's members actively shut each other down is shooters and hunters, the fuddery is beyond a joke.

[Bill]

keep on labeling ur fellow shooters as the real problem Ziege seriously mate calling fellow shooters Fudds is just plain dumb.

If your arguments for semi autos is to call us all Fudds then you have buckleys in achieving any changes

[Ziege]

I'm not labelling them anything, if there is a stop sign and someone goes "look a stop sign" that doesn't mean they labelled the sign, the sign was already labelled. Just as much as if a fellow human is a plumber, and I say, "look a plumber", I never made the c__t a plumber, making easy and simple observations isn't labelling.

I hope that concept isn't too difficult for you, I know you often struggle with simple concepts and information.

[Larry]

I think it is a fair stretch to go from a shooter that is only concerned about their type of shooting to a shooter that is an Optimistic doubter and putting the same label on both of them.

[Ziege]

not really, both pander to the narrative of the anti lobby

[TassieTiger]

So if you had a choice between seeing elvis and jimi one night , or getting a cat D licence approved, which would you prefer?

Geeez BLR, what a dilemma -? Not a Levi’s fan but Jimi...one night? ...few drinks, shoot the s**t to spice it up? Hell...I still can’t decide lol

[Skinna]

Ok I'll point out the obvious recreational hunting isn't done for eradication its done for fun just take a look at the number of young fellas transporting pigs closer to Brisbane and the fact they cut piglets ears off to make them harder for dogs to catch to see my point, im not saying all rec hunters do that but they ain't spreading naturally and i have seen posts where guys leave sows with piglets alive so the young don't die (again not saying everyone does this) but farmers are interested in eradication not trophies. That's why I do my own pest control.

It's not just about me, the idea is a baby step to achieve loosening of the laws, - if you can make it the status quo that every farmer has one and nothing bad happened maybe you'll get a chance at cat c being given to recreational users, demanding a complete backflip on the 96 laws without any form of evidence isn't going to get you anywhere. The minister will simply repeat to parliament "the gun reforms made in 96 were brought in to keep citizens safe and no review is recommended at this time" sound familiar?its the current police ministers response to every epetition regarding gun laws for the last 5 years why don't you start another one I'll even sign it but just remember the definition of insanity is repeating the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result altering the question might get a different answer

An extra 3 rounds? the skk held 30 20 more than I can get in any centrefire available on a cat a b or c licence, a saiga 12 can hold 20 in a drum mag the mossberg 590m holds 10 thats 15 and 5 more than I can currently have respectively and when it comes to eradication that's a lot more. Instead of acting like a millennial and shouting you want it and its not fair that you dont have it, gaining some actual knowledge of the guns you want unbanned might be a good place to start.

And the stupid logic I was referring to was why pay 50million to a committee when hunters will pay you for the chance to solve your problem? (Just in case you missed it).

I understand your view that the laws are about disarmament but the only way to get a "2nd amendment" or any other alterations into our constitution is via referendum. So even though it sucks, at this point in time, firearm ownership is a privilege not a right. Also on a side note there's no allowance for a third tier of government in the constitution of Australia so local council is completely illegitimate the last time a third tier was put to the public was by the Gillard government that was the second time it got voted down if they bring it up and it fails a third time it can never be proposed again. We have never had a referendum on gun laws in Australia it would be an interesting exercise.

We're on the same page Farmer Pete.
And im not as you put it "Instead of acting like a millennial and shouting you want it and its not fair", im of tasty mature age, despite how much i want to deny it, so i dont get where ive given you any reason to believe im acting like a spoilt millennial, other than you feeling ive attacked you in some way due to me being fairly blunt to you because i was in a hurry.

As for small steps & in regard to having the "few extra rounds" i mention instead of the 20 or 30 you mention--again, i believe putting recreational hunters/cullers (such as fox chasers like myself & many other cullers on here) & aligning them with landowners, & giving them self loaders in rimfire & shotgun is a feasible thing--certainly more feasible than giving every redneck( )Quensland farmer an SKK for Xmas.
To align "us" (hunters/shooters that cull) with "youzz" (land owners)--i mean, if a farmer has a cat C, that should be transferred to the Business that employs him (his company), & like in the building trade, a farmer could "supervise" (not the best or correct word im looking for but you should get my drift) someone such as myself, & such firearms could be kind of co-used (maybe) all under the one supervisory licence--then if i should no longer shoot on your farm, you notify registrar within 14 days & i need a seperate agreement with different landowner to keep my self loader endorsement...&/or have it run like a destruction permit, have listed & proven shooters allowed to own use said Class C/D's only on said land where these contracts/permits are written.

I also think, given we have National code for roos, such self-loader use in shotty & rimfire's could also be on a National basis, over & above the standard state laws for the guy who only wants a 22 & a 223 to take his lad out couple times a year on second cuz's farm for a bit of a blurt on the foxes come lambing & dumb pup time with the odd bunny here n there.

I also get the pig thing too--there are idiots down here that try to let pigs into parks for gods sake--just crazy stuff from an environmental point of view--but lets not digress onto fukwits in this convo.

In regard to small steps,
If after Port Arthur & more recently in Christchurch (as about to be sentenced now), if you think there is a skerrik of a chance of any semi aute centrefire being given to anyone before a rimfire in this country, then say you want baby steps, you need to realise those two ideals have no hope of aligning.

So my critical points are
We all need to align.
As you say SMALL steps--that isnt SKK's for Xmas, rather its shotguns & rimfires--then get them into competition as well !!
We all need to align.--This includes with gel blasters rego plates & appearance laws ffs--as if we'll get anything if the knife's i use for skinning that no one has a problem with, are illegal in NSW!!!!
, & it also doesnt include all eleventeen genders or climate change.

As for a referendum--not a good idea at the moment--the shooting fraternity needs to speak up--make it common conversation that we kill things--make it popular that we own our actions & harvest our own meat--make it trendy to eat Roo, bunny, cat, deer & fox thats been shot in its natural life.
(did you see what i snuck in there )
Make it trendy to have a fox fur hanging over every recliner or in a frame on the wall !

[Skinna]

So if you had a choice between seeing elvis and jimi one night , or getting a cat D licence approved, which would you prefer?

Thats a no brainer.

I want my self loading shotty !!! CatDee for Mee YAY

So, in commemoration of Jimmy & my new Cat D licence, i would place speakers at 10m intervals for 100 metres leading up to an old farm house thats full of & been ruined by feral pigeons.

As i emerge from the mallee scrub with shiny new--hang on,-not sure yet- it might be a not so shiny camo stock--self loading 12G with 8+1, saundering along with a defined presence just like a heavy weight boxer with his stroll through the crowd on his world heavyweight bout,
Jimmy will be blaring through the speakers, & as im sliding full field loads into the side gate, then flick the bolt back to send one into the chamber all tuff n cool like, ill be harmonising with ol Jimmy, singing...

Hhhheyy Jo
Where you gow'n w'dat gun in-Yaww Haaynds...

I saaaiiyd
Hheeeyy JJooo

Whe'Ya Gow'n W'Dat gun In Yaaww Haaynds

[Farmerpete]

Skinna my point is changing the question I'll support anyone challenging any gun laws. But I'm getting tired of signing the same petition worded slightly different for the same outcome.
so you want to use a farmers gun to shoot on his land? There's already some provision for that in the act (as long as your an employee or direct family, and a fit and proper person, no licence is actually required) section 54 from memory. This may be your foot in the door. a petition to get the exemption expanded to people with permission to shoot may get up.
before starting a petition talk to your local member and get them to agree to being the presenter rather than just the clerk of the house, depending on weather or not you want it to be a political football (good in a sense everyone hears about it, bad in a sense that unless everyone agrees the answer is no) pick your timing, waiting for the election to start/finish would be a good idea.
If you start asking for the ability to purchase your own cat c your just asking the same question, ask for that later on the basis that noone went postal with a farmers gun

[mchughcb]

I just bought 3 x three barrel guns.

Now i can shoot nine ammunitions.

[Ricochet]

An old thread.... but
the world is shaping up to get rid of the left wing nanny state woke BLM retards..

How have you come to this conclusion? I am seeing more and more insanity - not less.

Because gun owners are not the only ones looking at the lefty morons thinking enough is enough, the pendulum swings one way and then it swings back. There are more people sitting on the fence or leaning to the right who are unhappy but have kept their mouths shut, we just need to present them with a logical argument. If we build it they will come

[TassieTiger]

An old thread.... but
the world is shaping up to get rid of the left wing nanny state woke BLM retards..

How have you come to this conclusion? I am seeing more and more insanity - not less.

Because gun owners are not the only ones looking at the lefty morons thinking enough is enough, the pendulum swings one way and then it swings back. There are more people sitting on the fence or leaning to the right who are unhappy but have kept their mouths shut, we just need to present them with a logical argument. If we build it they will come

I wish / hope your right...
I don’t know how you can measure the pendulum - but in my industry, there are daily conversations around we cz t do that because of xxx (insert political correctness, cancel culture, offending someone) - especially in safety.
Here’s an example - one of the offices I’m associated with has a large lunch room with a dishwasher. A few weeks ago - a lady put something into the dishwasher basket and cut herself on a knife that had been placed in there to be washed. There are now no dishwashers at any of the 7 offices we work out of, plastic cutlery only and the woman is suing her place of work and by all accounts will win...

I know this is just a one off example but big business is almost cornered in regards to this stuff - litigious society vs common sense is killing us...

[deye243]

An old thread.... but
the world is shaping up to get rid of the left wing nanny state woke BLM retards..

How have you come to this conclusion? I am seeing more and more insanity - not less.

Because gun owners are not the only ones looking at the lefty morons thinking enough is enough, the pendulum swings one way and then it swings back. There are more people sitting on the fence or leaning to the right who are unhappy but have kept their mouths shut, we just need to present them with a logical argument. If we build it they will come

The problem is even your so-called right wing mobs in this country are anti-gun and even the right wing news organisations think the garden gnome is still gods gift to Australia .

[Ziege]

problem with the pendulum effect is that too many are willing to sit on their ass until the pendulum reaches their side, instead of getting a run up at the start, so by the time they start to take advantage of the swing its already on its way back to the other side. the leftists and socialists, and control freaks are constantly looking to maintain that run up while the shooting community sits around asking for what its "allowed" to do now.

[womble]

We have’nt had a right wing government in Australia since Gorton.

But now theres Scomo-
- social conservative
- Evangelical Christian
- off shore detention camps for refugees
- voted against gay marriage
- anti - abortion
- critical of ethnic minorities

Could be making a comeback

[mchughcb]

Hmmm. Semi autos https://youtu.be/ye1m0mP5goM

[mchughcb]

Full auto's making a come back incase I need one for hound hunting https://youtu.be/IhoUm_ziCjc

[Faedy]

Back in 96 when we had to hand them back, I had a mate with a .22 semi, and he wrote a letter and said if he had to hand that in, he would use the money to buy a higher powered firearm, and they allowed him to keep it with a]zero conditions.
I handed in my Franchi Spaz.. now that was fun to use.

I have also heard of others who chose not to hand them in,and they now appear on their lic as either action unknown, or changed to bolt action by licensing dept. I wonder where they stand.

[Dedd]

I don't think anyone's mentioned this yet, but another factor is this discussion is the rise of various social media. Younger people are constantly being exposed to political events and opinions from other countries, namely the US. I mean every time I see something anti-gun, even on rather left-leaning sites, I also see people arguing for the opposite side, usually providing statistics. And with record numbers of first-gun buyers in the US (especially Democrats), I imagine this will increase.
One the one hand this exposure will probably lead to polarization in our politics as we adopt a similar "us good, them bad" mentality, but on the positive side we might import some small level of positive attitude towards guns. I can only hope I guess.

[linkoln]

So the question is, do you see semi-auto's coming back in anyway, even a reduced way? It won't be tomorrow, but in 5 years, 10? What do you think?

Here we are six years after this was first posted and just the other day more guns were banned based purely on how they look.
Semi autos are never coming back no politician would risk the backlash and potentially being voted out for it.

[Dedd]

no politician would risk the backlash and potentially being voted out for it.

Not yet. Gotta change the voters first.

[TassieTiger]

There is a large uptake of first time buyers in the USA - yet, Au is not necessarily following that trend...the harder the gubbernent make it to get any firearms, the lower the numbers will be that will jump through the hoops...tighter licensing is a way they can slowly erode ownership (and firearm value) - not this generation...but maybe next...just imagine - if you had to pay $3-5k for a 5 day firearm/safety course, and each pta was $500 a year - then you’d instantly cull 50% of owners...

[Dedd]

There is a large uptake of first time buyers in the USA - yet, Au is not necessarily following that trend...the harder the gubbernent make it to get any firearms, the lower the numbers will be that will jump through the hoops...tighter licensing is a way they can slowly erode ownership (and firearm value) - not this generation...but maybe next...just imagine - if you had to pay $3-5k for a 5 day firearm/safety course, and each pta was $500 a year - then you’d instantly cull 50% of owners...

Or, in the case of America, start an uprising.
I know I shouldn't look up to that, but f*** it's hard not be a little jealous.

I guess we've got to get all the new shooters we can now, while it's easier than it will inevitably end up being. Left wingers in particular. Could you imagine if firearms were the one thing most small parties agreed on? We've already got the small right wing parties. Given Marx was pro-gun I think we should start having "bring a commie to the range" days, lol.

[womble]

Tassie is right on the money.
A lot of people here apply for firearms licences but you have to wonder how many are successful. We have no way to know.
And the process in itself is designed to discourage the applicant as much as possible to make him/her lose interest.

The biggest marketing tool in the US relatively recent times, is fear of potentially impending legislation. That leads to massive jumps in sales to newer markets of people that had never really been interested in buying guns prior.
And of course they will fear monger globally to increase sales globally. It’s just a business model. Albeit a very successful one.

Fear has increased applications here, but i doubt many of those are granted licences.
If you go back to around January in Vic we knew covid was coming and impending lock downs, stretching of police resources.
My local clay shooting club had a huge jump in people wanting to try it out, like a queue out to the road. Police stopped processing PTA’s soon after.

So the trend is here and the interest to buy, but the market is essentially wholly controlled by the police.
That was introduced in 96 and since then theres been a steady increase in armed criminals and a steady decrease in armed citizens.
It’s scary and we should be afraid. It’s having a snowball effect. And the police are implimenting ever more desperate regulations and controls to manage it.
The police are not to blame for this, they just are’nt equiped for the task. The lack of expertise is self evident in firearms legislation.
An extra round in a magazine does not turn someone into a homicidal maniac.
There are a million examples of their failings in the task appointed to them, sadly some of them tragic. And though there are also countless examples of successes, on the whole we have not experienced a model of continuous improvement in recent decades.

We need an independent government body/public service with specific expertise, without prejudice, not based on a police state model.
Because fear should never be a reason to by a firearm in our country.