Will semi-auto's come back

[wheedle]

Hi guys,

I know this is a bit of a tender subject for some. The reason I ask if I read these things like pest numbers getting out of control in NSW.

Everyone always refers to American shooting rates blah blah blah except it's clear we have a hugely different gun culture here.

Our government is big on us demonstrating 'needs' for things. Pest control even with a semi-auto .22 is a decent reason IMO.

The greens have had a couple of floggings in recent memory.

The list goes on...

So the question is, do you see semi-auto's coming back in anyway, even a reduced way? It won't be tomorrow, but in 5 years, 10? What do you think?

[Norton]

The state of pests alone should be enough IMO.

I think foxes would literally need to be spilling out of the forests before they come back unfortunately.

[WesleySnipes]

I sure hope so. I don't think we need to go through how criminalizing 99.9% of the law abiding firearms because one bloke (who even had noted mental health issues mind you) killed 35 people is not exactly freedom...

And whoever brings up America usually looks at the number of gun homicides in total. Per capita from memory they are ranked 24 in the world for gun homicides as opposed to the fact they are number 1 in the world for private firearm ownership. And a majority of said gun murders can be linked to drug and gang fuelled violence, much like here. It seems there is a shooting in Western Sydney every few weeks and they obviously won't be abiding by the law if they're shooting in the first place.

I think it's also worth noting that as Chicago passed the Illinois concealed carry law and enabled citizens to carry concealed handguns (being the last state in USA to do so), they experienced their lowest gun homicide rate since 1958. Coincidence? I doubt it.

I'm sure anyone will correct me if I'm wrong.

I believe that it's about time we looked at the effectiveness of the 1996 buyback, has it stopped shootings? No, definitely not where I live as far as I can tell despite being enacted almost 2 decades ago. A common thing for anti gunners is to say that gun crime went down after the buyback, but according to ABS and other sources it was going down steadily since well before 1996 and simply followed the basic trend after the buyback scheme.

[Chronos]

I don't understand the thread or what your asking

You can apply for a licence for a semi auto rifle, centerfire or rimfire for the purpose of vermin control.

If you need it you can have it.

Chronos.

[WesleySnipes]

I think what he is perhaps getting at is the whole 'need' thing. How many things do we own today that we don't 'need'? We have them because we want them and it is our right to do so if we aren't hurting anyone else.

Semi automatic firearms seem to get special treatment because they're super baby killing machines that no one can own without hurting themselves or others.

[Chronos]

I think what he is perhaps getting at is the whole 'need' thing. How many things do we own today that we don't 'need'? We have them because we want them and it is our right to do so if we aren't hurting anyone else.

Semi automatic firearms seem to get special treatment because they're super baby killing machines that no one can own without hurting themselves or others.

You and I know the current system is flawed. If you want a bolt action .22 you need to demonstrate a " need ". Target, hunting etc as your genuine reason.

It's something most if us have simply learned to live with since '96. (I started shooting after '96 so it's the only way I've known it)

As I see it things may change, unlikely but its possible.

The main thing that hurts us at the moment is the morons that continue to break current laws, pushing things in the wrong direction

I'd like to see a day where I could take a semi .22 bunny hunting and shoot a AR15 or SLR in service rifle matches but I can't see it happening as long as there's drive by shootings and police raids on OMG headquarters nets boot loads of "assault rifles" (I use that term loosly)

Chronos

[WesleySnipes]

You and I know the current system is flawed. If you want a bolt action .22 you need to demonstrate a " need ". Target, hunting etc as your genuine reason.

It's something most if us have simply learned to live with since '96. (I started shooting after '96 so it's the only way I've known it)

As I see it things may change, unlikely but its possible.

The main thing that hurts us at the moment is the morons that continue to break current laws, pushing things in the wrong direction

I'd like to see a day where I could take a semi .22 bunny hunting and shoot a AR15 or SLR in service rifle matches but I can't see it happening as long as there's drive by shootings and police raids on OMG headquarters nets boot loads of "assault rifles" (I use that term loosly)

Chronos

I agree, however I think all these people breaking the current laws demonstrates how criminals have no respect for the law what so ever, as they continue to cause violence and shoot each other up. Logically, well at least to my own thoughts, it shows exactly why penalizing the law abiding just doesn't work, and it never will. Hypothetically if we had a blanket gun ban, the criminals will still have guns and cause shootings, because that's in their nature. Murder has been illegal for a VERY long time, doesn't really stop anyone though does it?

Unfortunately, I think it's a trend for the average anti gunner to NOT think logically. I can see by your signature you have several longarms, I could only imagine how horrified many of them would by your ownership of so many death machines

[Chronos]

I agree

Chronos

[Warrigul]

I agree, however I think all these people breaking the current laws demonstrates how criminals have no respect for the law what so ever, as they continue to cause violence and shoot each other up. Logically, well at least to my own thoughts, it shows exactly why penalizing the law abiding just doesn't work, and it never will. Hypothetically if we had a blanket gun ban, the criminals will still have guns and cause shootings, because that's in their nature. Murder has been illegal for a VERY long time, doesn't really stop anyone though does it?

Unfortunately, I think it's a trend for the average anti gunner to NOT think logically.

Agree totally,

I grew up with access to everything from an early age and neither myself nor any others in my family used them for nefarious purposes.

Dad used to regularly stop off at home rather than travel through to the barracks(army reserves) and usually had an m16/slr/F1 in the hall cupboard, not to mention the shotguns and hunting rifles in the racks unlocked- education was relied upon for safety, not restriction.

I was let loose with a browning semi auto .22 at a very early age and my 12th birthday present was a ruger 10/22. I had to ask before I went out but that was all.

I am over the post 1996 BS that has gone on for far too long.

[ToyotaBoy]

just to throw my 2 cents worth in, i get what yr all saying but have you noticed that in the last cople of years that when you read your firearms magazines that they have been advertising semi auto shot guns more than they have in the last 15-20 years. my feeling is that it will change but they wont tell you about it

[WesleySnipes]

Agree totally,

I grew up with access to everything from an early age and neither myself nor any others in my family used them for nefarious purposes.

Dad used to regularly stop off at home rather than travel through to the barracks(army reserves) and usually had an m16/slr/F1 in the hall cupboard, not to mention the shotguns and hunting rifles in the racks unlocked- education was relied upon for safety, not restriction.

I was let loose with a browning semi auto .22 at a very early age and my 12th birthday present was a ruger 10/22. I had to ask before I went out but that was all.

I am over the post 1996 BS that has gone on for far too long.

A perfect example of good people who were criminalized by a stroke of a pen for what a mass murderer did. And there were many hundreds of thousands more. And the one signing his name on the dotted line, Howard himself is a self professed hater of guns. Not exactly unbiased now is it? They never let a good tragedy go to waste to push their personal agenda.

I can't believe the Australian public rolled over and took the punishment. I was only 2 years old in 1996 so I obviously can't remember, how much opposition was there for the buyback? Fortunately I have had access to quite a few semi autos in the family, but I am luckier than most.

[WesleySnipes]

just to throw my 2 cents worth in, i get what yr all saying but have you noticed that in the last cople of years that when you read your firearms magazines that they have been advertising semi auto shot guns more than they have in the last 15-20 years. my feeling is that it will change but they wont tell you about it

As I've never read or bought one I do not know. But personally I think as times get more and more desperate, with costs of living rising every day, more and more criminals will make their way out of the woodwork. Maybe then the public will realise that when the police cannot protect them efficiently they will feel the need to arm themselves and take their lives and the lives of their families as their own responsibility, which they should always have done.

The average response time in my area is 35-40 minutes on a good night, more then enough time for the criminals entering a house to do as they wish to the occupants and be gone long before the police arrive.

[Baronvonrort]

Hi guys,

So the question is, do you see semi-auto's coming back in anyway, even a reduced way? It won't be tomorrow, but in 5 years, 10? What do you think?

Primary producers can have category C and contract shooters can have category D, so it could be argued they never went away the availability was restricted.

It appears primary producers can also have category D in Qld-
http://www.police.qld.gov.au/programs/w ... rimary.htm

Not sure on when Queensland allowed primary producers to have category D, can any Queenslanders help with that one?

[JC102]

It seems there is a shooting in Western Sydney every few weeks and they obviously won't be abiding by the law if they're shooting in the first place.

More like every few days. And what's reported probably isn't all of it.

[WesleySnipes]

More like every few days. And what's reported probably isn't all of it.

You're exactly right. How many of which are done by licensed shooters with registered firearms...

[wheedle]

I don't understand the thread or what your asking

You can apply for a licence for a semi auto rifle, centerfire or rimfire for the purpose of vermin control.

I meant 'back' in the sense that any LAFO should be able to get one for target, pest control or hunting.

Like before the '96 buyback when you didn't have meet the current very specific requirements, e.g. be a primary producer. Obviously that's not possible for the majority of shooters.

[wheedle]

Primary producers can have category C and contract shooters can have category D, so it could be argued they never went away the availability was restricted.

Well then restrictions lifted.

However you want to phrase it they left the hands of the majority of LAFO. I'm talking about giving the access back if you want to put it that way.

[bluerob]

The state of pests alone should be enough IMO.

I think foxes would literally need to be spilling out of the forests before they come back unfortunately.

Old post, but, had to reply.

Went for a drive around the bottom paddock at a mates place over the weekend.

Turned on the spot light and it looked like I was standing on the old drive in theatre screen looking back at parked cars head lights turned on, with red filters. Haven't seen anything like this since, I don't know when.

A 1000 hand grenades (not that I advocate the use, just illustrating a point) wouldn't have made a dent in the population.

He has the semi auto licence, but, not enough ammo - he's now looking for a progressive press.

I don't think that the general public will ever have access to semi autos like "the old days." The media helps with that, plus the anti gun lobby. Armed forces have weapons, we have firearms. They conveniently misuse this term.

Gun Control Australia is going berko over semi auto handguns which will also eventually go by the way side also, I sadly believe.

[Baronvonrort]

I don't think that the general public will ever have access to semi autos like "the old days." The media helps with that, plus the anti gun lobby. Armed forces have weapons, we have firearms. They conveniently misuse this term.

Gun Control Australia is going berko over semi auto handguns which will also eventually go by the way side also, I sadly believe.

The laws will never be changed in one go,we have to chip away at all of them and hope for small steps at a time.

IMO i think we should push for Primary producers to be allowed Cat D and Cat H along with sound moderators, the general public will have no sympathy for ordinary people wanting Cat D yet they are sympathetic towards farmers, we should point out the Greens want to take the semi auto rimfires away from farmers with their idiotic policies.

One of the most absurd laws is a Ruger charger is allowed for category H yet the same firing mechanism on a rifle with a longer barrel and stock is prohibited for everyone except Cat c/d.

A ruger charger uses the exact same parts as the 10/22, if you keep it with the short barrel/stock it is legal for cat H yet if you change it to a longer barrel and stock it becomes illegal.

As for moving a 10/22 or the newer SR22 to cat A you have to articulate this better,start with ballistics-
CCI velocitor 40 gr
Muzzle velocity 1435 fps, energy 183 ft/lbs,100 yards 1084 fps,104 ft/lbs
223 rem 53 gr Vmax-
Muzzle velocity 3465 fps,energy 1413 ft/lbs,100 yards 3106 fps ,1135 ft/lbs

You have to point out to the ignorant a .22lr is not high powered if you want any chance of a semi auto rimfire.

[Chronos]

The laws will never be changed in one go,we have to chip away at all of them and hope for small steps at a time.

IMO i think we should push for Primary producers to be allowed Cat D and Cat H along with sound moderators, the general public will have no sympathy for ordinary people wanting Cat D yet they are sympathetic towards farmers, we should point out the Greens want to take the semi auto rimfires away from farmers with their idiotic policies.

One of the most absurd laws is a Ruger charger is allowed for category H yet the same firing mechanism on a rifle with a longer barrel and stock is prohibited for everyone except Cat c/d.
A ruger charger uses the exact same parts as the 10/22, if you keep it with the short barrel/stock it is legal for cat H yet if you change it to a longer barrel and stock it becomes illegal.

As for moving a 10/22 or the newer SR22 to cat A you have to articulate this better,start with ballistics-
CCI velocitor 40 gr
Muzzle velocity 1435 fps, energy 183 ft/lbs,100 yards 1084 fps,104 ft/lbs
223 rem 53 gr Vmax-
Muzzle velocity 3465 fps,energy 1413 ft/lbs,100 yards 3106 fps ,1135 ft/lbs

You have to point out to the ignorant a .22lr is not high powered if you want any chance of a semi auto rimfire.

Primary producers currently have access to cat C and professional pest controllers already have access to cat D firearms as far as I know. At least here in nsw

Chronos

Edit: I could have that the wrong way around. Will correct once I check

[MeccaOz]

We live in hope, hell I'd just like a Ruger 10/22. Well for now

[Baronvonrort]

Primary producers and professional pest controllers already have access to cat D firearms as far as I know. At least here in nsw

Primary producers are only allowed Category C in NSW, Professional shooters can have cat d in NSW.

Primary producers are only allowed Cat A/B/C in NSW, there is no option for Cat D in NSW.
http://www.police.nsw.gov.au/__data/ass ... Feb_11.pdf

[Baronvonrort]

We live in hope, hell I'd just like a Ruger 10/22. Well for now

I like the newer Ruger SR22 rifle,it uses the same parts as the 10/22 in a Nordic components chassis.

[Chronos]

Thanks for the link baron

Chronos

[yoshie]

I think we need to try and get pump shots guns in to cat A, same as lever shot guns.

And also get rid of high caliber limits like 45s which limit us holding an international IPSC competition.

I guess what the OP was asking is will we ever get cat C & D endorsed for target shooting and hunting?

The military rifle match is pretty much stuck in the 1950s, it would be nice to shoot a New Zealand style (modern) military rifle match.

The more legitimate and accountable recreational hunters become, do you think we could ever R licence hunters (who pay insurance and are accredited to exterminate pests on public land) to be endorsed for cat C and D?

Will they be able to get the same access to cat C firearms as primary producers, who are doing a similar job?

[bluerob]

"You have to point out to the ignorant a .22lr is not high powered if you want any chance of a semi auto rimfire."

Ignorance is something someone acquires, like a taste for certain things. It can also be trendy, in some situations.

From my years of watching our sport go from seeing private school kids carrying a rifle over their shoulder on the train (not bagged, just the sling) a shooter walking out of Mick Smiths on George St and pointing a scoped rifle at the Central Station clock "to see how the scope focused" - imagine doing that now? You'd end up on the ground with 100 Police and god knows who else on standby ready to smash your front door in - can't see the wife appreciating the funny aspect here; I believe our days are numbered, full stop unless there's are concerted effort, like Unsworth copped in the 1980's.

I'm not involved with any political party, but, I'm seriously thinking about joining S&F now and getting involved where I can. Gun Control Australia (in my view) is slowly getting more traction in some media sections - water on a stone.....

The constant crime in Sydney involving firearms doesn't help our situation. The control freaks say "remove them from homes, they won't get stolen and crime will disappear." We all know that this is an ignorant comment, but, to your average citizen, it does sound reasonable; my neighbor agrees with this sentiment. He's worried that he's going to get rolled because he's my neighbor - mistaken identity. This is the problem we face. The general public remain ignorant about the lawful use of firearms. Guitar cases don't need large padlocks fitted, unless your Elvis and I ain't Elvis.

Until I see someone on TV making a great argument for our sport, whether hunting or target, our days are numbered. I hope I'm dead wrong and I will try my best to assist the S&F Party.

Bugger losing my toys again.

[Beechy]

Semi-autos never went away! you just need to have a genuine reason. If you have a genuine reason, get a category C or D. Using firearms are a privilege in this country, they were never a right. The laws are based around genuine need because that's simply sensible. Australians are sensible. Americans are not.

[MeccaOz]

Semi-autos never went away! you just need to have a genuine reason. If you have a genuine reason, get a category C or D. Using firearms are a privilege in this country, they were never a right. The laws are based around genuine need because that's simply sensible. Australians are sensible. Americans are not.

Actually we never had a referendum to ban any sort of firearm "Our Rights" have been eroded by the pollies in a huge way. Any change to our constitution has to be done by popular vote .... But we were and still are told otherwise. Alot of the laws we have now have been pushed upon us and we didnt even know it wasnt legit ... Have a look at the Aussie constitution, or get on youtube and check it out ...

[Tiiger]

Semi-autos never went away! you just need to have a genuine reason.

If you had one and weren't in primary production they took your reason away.

Same difference.

[1290]

This question appears every once in a while; the "banning of semi-autos" and the resulting utopia established in Australia....at least thats what we are to believe.

Fact:
Semi-auto (even autos!) were never banned.
Yes, they are regulated, if you demonstrate a 'need' you can have ONE.

This needs business is the problem (that needs to change)

Fiction:
More guns = more death
The USA has a high rate of ownership and also a high rate of homicide. They are mutually exclusive, it is the gang culture plain and simple, other countries with very high firearm ownership rates DONT have similar levels of killing....

Fact:
Serbia has a high firearm ownership rate, said to be 2nd to the USA but almost identical homicide rate to Australia?? what? Reported firearm ownership rates reported at between 2 times and 4 times Australias...
Iceland has at least twice our ownership rate but according to United Nations homicide data there was a single homicide in the last reporting period (2012) and several years have ZERO murders (by any means, firearms etc)
Switzerland, the presstitutes rarely mention; every household with an adult male?? MUST have an military auto rifle; homicide rate half Australia's rate.

Fact:
Whenever the proponents of the PAM laws proclaim the positive results of those restrictions they are outright deceiving you! liars..... the big one the Greentards proclaim is that 'they' have 'saved' thousands of people... that suicides have significantly reduced as less people have access to firearms, yes less by firearm but MORE by other means, we have very similar suicide numbers, in fact numbers peaked after 96.... there is no room for truth in politics...

Fact:
The movement to disarm 'the common man or woman' is not recent, and is not restricted to Aus. the movement in the USA is incredibly well supported and funded, it goes back a couple of hundres years and a specific political movements, the same proponents are still behind it today. The Greens play an important role in it.
In the USA they have a specific 'right' and therefore they oppose this 'force'. In Australia we are a bit more pliant and as such when these 'forces' call for changes (1996) it does get through the Parliament and we tend to do what 'our government' says....