Touring ( no fixed address)

Questions about Queensland gun and ammunition laws. QLD Weapons Act 1990.

Touring ( no fixed address)

Post by Mountlowcustoms » 04 Aug 2022, 7:04 pm

Just wondering if anyone knows what the go is with regard to keeping licence/ firearms whilst going on tour around Australia with no fixed address?
I've looked all through weapons licensing qld and can't find anything.

Cheers.
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Re: Touring ( no fixed address)

Post by Fionn » 04 Aug 2022, 7:30 pm

I believe you can't in most states as you must have a fixed address.
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Re: Touring ( no fixed address)

Post by bladeracer » 04 Aug 2022, 8:20 pm

Mountlowcustoms wrote:Just wondering if anyone knows what the go is with regard to keeping licence/ firearms whilst going on tour around Australia with no fixed address?
I've looked all through weapons licensing qld and can't find anything.

Cheers.


Might have to get clarification from Weapons Licencing, assuming you hold a Qld licence.
You can only hold a licence in your state of residence. And if you own firearms you have to have a normal storage address, but I don't think that is actually relevant while you're travelling as they're not in storage. There are rules about having genuine reason to be travelling with firearms, like on the way to a hunt or a competition, but if you are actually living in a vehicle I think Police will consider that to be your home. This is a similar grey area for people travelling in RV's and caravans through national parks as firearms are not lawfully allowed in them.

Your firearms must be legal in any state you enter, even if you're not stopping there. States have different laws regarding ammunition as well, so only carry ammunition for firearms you are actually licenced for. WA for example does not allow you to own a .308 Win cartridge if you don't have a .308 Win firearm listed on your licence - they don't even allow you to own .308" bullets if you don't own any .308" firearms that could use them.

Be aware, WA recognises your licence from other states but not your registrations. You require temporary registrations for your firearms upon entering WA - about $65 per month from memory.

As most states only allow hunting and shooting on private property and at approved clubs you might just skip the headache and leave your firearms in storage at whatever address you have as your storage address and borrow local firearms if and when you have opportunities to shoot - WA does not allow borrowing firearms though.
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Re: Touring ( no fixed address)

Post by Fionn » 04 Aug 2022, 8:39 pm

bladeracer wrote: This is a similar grey area for people travelling in RV's and caravans through national parks as firearms are not lawfully allowed in them.


Why do you believe this is a grey area?
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Re: Touring ( no fixed address)

Post by bladeracer » 04 Aug 2022, 8:57 pm

Fionn wrote:
bladeracer wrote: This is a similar grey area for people travelling in RV's and caravans through national parks as firearms are not lawfully allowed in them.


Why do you believe this is a grey area?


Because I'm not aware of a specific exemption for people living in vehicles, as I did for two years myself while travelling.
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Re: Touring ( no fixed address)

Post by No1Mk3 » 04 Aug 2022, 9:27 pm

Fionn wrote:
bladeracer wrote: This is a similar grey area for people travelling in RV's and caravans through national parks as firearms are not lawfully allowed in them.


Why do you believe this is a grey area?


The "grey area" is that one is permitted to transit a National Park via freeway or Main Arterial road to get to a destination, but you are not permitted to travel via "B" roads with a firearm, nor stop anywhere to look at the view etc. (See National Park Regulations S.6) People have gotten into strife by not following this so it is often best to plan one's travel to avoid cutting through an NP if at all possible. OP's main problem is whether he will have an address in his home State to comply with his Licence requirements.
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Re: Touring ( no fixed address)

Post by Oldbloke » 04 Aug 2022, 9:30 pm

No1Mk3 wrote:
Fionn wrote:
bladeracer wrote: This is a similar grey area for people travelling in RV's and caravans through national parks as firearms are not lawfully allowed in them.


Why do you believe this is a grey area?


The "grey area" is that one is permitted to transit a National Park via freeway or Main Arterial road to get to a destination, but you are not permitted to travel via "B" roads with a firearm, nor stop anywhere to look at the view etc. (See National Park Regulations S.6) People have gotten into strife by not following this so it is often best to plan one's travel to avoid cutting through an NP if at all possible. OP's main problem is whether he will have an address in his home State to comply with his Licence requirements.


Pretty much my understanding too.
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Re: Touring ( no fixed address)

Post by Fionn » 05 Aug 2022, 10:19 am

bladeracer wrote:
Fionn wrote:
bladeracer wrote: This is a similar grey area for people travelling in RV's and caravans through national parks as firearms are not lawfully allowed in them.


Why do you believe this is a grey area?


Because I'm not aware of a specific exemption for people living in vehicles, as I did for two years myself while travelling.


OK, that's not a grey area as such, that's why I asked, but you are right there isn't specific exemptions people living in vehicles.
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Re: Touring ( no fixed address)

Post by on_one_wheel » 05 Aug 2022, 10:29 am

This may help a little
The following is an explanation by the Queensland Weapons Licensing Branch: In order to store a firearm on a vessel or caravan (motor home) you would be required to apply for what is known as an 'Alternative Safe Storage Certificate. ' This is a certificate permitting you to store a firearm other than in a building.3 Dec 2015

I'd be surprised if other states don't have similar provisions.

https://www.ssaa.org.au/?ss_news=a-stat ... 20building.
Last edited by on_one_wheel on 05 Aug 2022, 10:36 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Touring ( no fixed address)

Post by Fionn » 05 Aug 2022, 10:31 am

No1Mk3 wrote:
Fionn wrote:
bladeracer wrote: This is a similar grey area for people travelling in RV's and caravans through national parks as firearms are not lawfully allowed in them.


Why do you believe this is a grey area?


The "grey area" is that one is permitted to transit a National Park via freeway or Main Arterial road to get to a destination, but you are not permitted to travel via "B" roads with a firearm, nor stop anywhere to look at the view etc. (See National Park Regulations S.6) People have gotten into strife by not following this so it is often best to plan one's travel to avoid cutting through an NP if at all possible. OP's main problem is whether he will have an address in his home State to comply with his Licence requirements.


A "grey area" isn't the right term here, as the laws are black and white here. Its not that people are permitted to transit a National Park via freeway or Main Arterial with a firearm, its that a freeway/arterial road aren't classed as part of the national park. But as you rightly said, you can't leave that road while in the national park with a firearm, eg to stop look at lookout or pull over for a rest etc.

Also keep in mine that in Queensland you can carry/transport a firearm in your vehicle in a national park and its not limited to certain roads etc.

Add to that its often illegal to carry/possess a firearm in various types of reserves, parks and sanctuary and its makes the whole thing of travelling with a firearm complex.
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Re: Touring ( no fixed address)

Post by bladeracer » 05 Aug 2022, 12:38 pm

Fionn wrote:
bladeracer wrote:Because I'm not aware of a specific exemption for people living in vehicles, as I did for two years myself while travelling.


OK, that's not a grey area as such, that's why I asked, but you are right there isn't specific exemptions people living in vehicles.


With the growth of the "grey nomads" I think such an exemption is long overdue. Prohibit usage of firearms, but it makes no sense to prohibit their mere existence in such areas. People choose to travel to experience everything the country can offer, including hunting and shooting. This sort of blanket prohibition just limits where people can travel regardless of their purpose for travelling.
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Re: Touring ( no fixed address)

Post by Oldbloke » 05 Aug 2022, 1:40 pm

Dogs and other pets, are treated the same as firearms in NPs. The whole NP (neglected parks) thing is laughable really.
Sorry, off topic.

Anyway as mentioned it can get complicated traveling with firearms around the country. Some states vary a fair bit.

The additional thing is if your forced to install a gun safe in the caravan it will significantly effect you payload making the caravan over legal weight. (ATM) Solid alloy tool box would be the best solution i permitted.
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Re: Touring ( no fixed address)

Post by Fionn » 05 Aug 2022, 2:29 pm

bladeracer wrote:
With the growth of the "grey nomads" I think such an exemption is long overdue. Prohibit usage of firearms, but it makes no sense to prohibit their mere existence in such areas. People choose to travel to experience everything the country can offer, including hunting and shooting. This sort of blanket prohibition just limits where people can travel regardless of their purpose for travelling.



Allowing drifters to carry firearms around with them sounds like a good idea :lol: drifters are the true 1%er's. although there is maybe more then 1% now.

The sense in the law I suspect is it simply easier to enforce an outright ban.
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Re: Touring ( no fixed address)

Post by Fionn » 05 Aug 2022, 2:31 pm

Oldbloke wrote:The additional thing is if your forced to install a gun safe in the caravan it will significantly effect you payload making the caravan over legal weight. (ATM) Solid alloy tool box would be the best solution i permitted.


Although after 30 August a Solid alloy tool box wouldn't be legal in Victoria.
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Re: Touring ( no fixed address)

Post by cz515 » 05 Aug 2022, 3:31 pm

Fionn wrote:
Oldbloke wrote:The additional thing is if your forced to install a gun safe in the caravan it will significantly effect you payload making the caravan over legal weight. (ATM) Solid alloy tool box would be the best solution i permitted.


Although after 30 August a Solid alloy tool box wouldn't be legal in Victoria.


Yep, maybe OB meant a wooden one

Anyway a 3gun safe with say a rifle would be around 50-70kg mark. Not really a significant issue. As vehicles and caravans don't go over a weighbridge every time they leave home i figure most bands are either less then weights or well over
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Re: Touring ( no fixed address)

Post by Oldbloke » 05 Aug 2022, 5:55 pm

cz515 wrote:
Fionn wrote:
Oldbloke wrote:The additional thing is if your forced to install a gun safe in the caravan it will significantly effect you payload making the caravan over legal weight. (ATM) Solid alloy tool box would be the best solution i permitted.


Although after 30 August a Solid alloy tool box wouldn't be legal in Victoria.


Yep, maybe OB meant a wooden one

Anyway a 3gun safe with say a rifle would be around 50-70kg mark. Not really a significant issue. As vehicles and caravans don't go over a weighbridge every time they leave home i figure most bands are either less then weights or well over


I meant aluminium, if it was permitted.

FYI 60kg is huge for a van. Many are only permitted 300-400kg payload. Water tanks, full, usually the capacity is 180kg full. Doesn't leave much.
Just because they don't get weighed often does not make it ok. Over weight van is illegal. And they are being weighed a lot more often than a few years ago. Just recenty in NSW I was waved through at a weigh bridge, van in front got weighed. And BTW If your over weight, and can't correct it at that time you sometimes you have to leave it at the weigh bridge.

And if your over weight your not insured either. It happens.

240kg before food, clothes etc. Yeh, shee'l be right.

I can tell you from personal experience it's not easy for a couple to comply with 490kg pay load.

P.S. CZ, safe storage at home isn't important, we don't get checked very often do we. :sarcasm:
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Re: Touring ( no fixed address)

Post by Oldbloke » 05 Aug 2022, 6:15 pm

And just to add. When I suggested it i thought prehaps this might apply.

https://www.ssaa.org.au/?ss_news=a-stat ... 20building.
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Re: Touring ( no fixed address)

Post by on_one_wheel » 05 Aug 2022, 6:36 pm

The police have actually been weighing plenty of vans and 4x4's on the weigh bridges.

They chuck scales under all their wheels and even measure tow ball weight. While their at it they check tyre sizes against the placard, vehicle lifts, wheel base.
Heaps are way over weight, there's so many accessories you can strap to your set-up now it's become a little ridiculous... glampers :lol:
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Re: Touring ( no fixed address)

Post by Oldbloke » 09 Aug 2022, 11:59 am

There was a member here who was doing this, full time in a van. He was asking about reloading in a van.
Did the OP come up with a solution?
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Re: Touring ( no fixed address)

Post by Mountlowcustoms » 03 Jun 2023, 1:48 pm

Oldbloke wrote:There was a member here who was doing this, full time in a van. He was asking about reloading in a van.
Did the OP come up with a solution?



after much trawling through each states police websites, it appears do-able, WA looks to be the most difficult, but just requires a little more forward planning.

i think i need to follow up with emails to each state confirming what the websites appear to state.
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Re: Touring ( no fixed address)

Post by Oldbloke » 03 Jun 2023, 5:11 pm

Yes, WA is a mine field
If I hooked up the van for a long trip I would take a rifle with me. If going via WA, I wouldn't.
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Re: Touring ( no fixed address)

Post by Oldbloke » 03 Jun 2023, 5:30 pm

Is it possible to simply nominate a permanent address, say your brothers? You will need one for car rego, etc. Bolt in a safe.

Then go on a very long holiday. Then your just "transporting" your rifle.
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Re: Touring ( no fixed address)

Post by Mountlowcustoms » 04 Jun 2023, 4:42 pm

Oldbloke wrote:Is it possible to simply nominate a permanent address, say your brothers? You will need one for car rego, etc. Bolt in a safe.

Then go on a very long holiday. Then your just "transporting" your rifle.



that would pretty much be the go," just on a 12 month camping trip your honour" lol.
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Re: Touring ( no fixed address)

Post by Oldbloke » 04 Jun 2023, 5:59 pm

Mountlowcustoms wrote:
Oldbloke wrote:Is it possible to simply nominate a permanent address, say your brothers? You will need one for car rego, etc. Bolt in a safe.

Then go on a very long holiday. Then your just "transporting" your rifle.



that would pretty much be the go," just on a 12 month camping trip your honour" lol.


Plenty of full time grey nomads do it. Might only visit that address once a year for a few days. But "officially" that's home.

Car, van, voting etc all registered at that address.
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Re: Touring ( no fixed address)

Post by geoff » 04 Jun 2023, 8:02 pm

bladeracer wrote:
Fionn wrote:
bladeracer wrote:Because I'm not aware of a specific exemption for people living in vehicles, as I did for two years myself while travelling.


OK, that's not a grey area as such, that's why I asked, but you are right there isn't specific exemptions people living in vehicles.


With the growth of the "grey nomads" I think such an exemption is long overdue. Prohibit usage of firearms, but it makes no sense to prohibit their mere existence in such areas. People choose to travel to experience everything the country can offer, including hunting and shooting. This sort of blanket prohibition just limits where people can travel regardless of their purpose for travelling.


No thanks. All of these hokey "put it in a long checkerplate toolbox" type solutions that get proffered when this topic comes up are simply inadequate for long term secure storage and, as has been alluded to in this thread, the nature of modern caravanning weight management largely precludes the installation of decent storage.

Caravans get stolen all the time, they get burgled regularly. They are built as just just a big glorified esky on wheels. I don't want to encourage people travelling with firearms long term, i think it is potentially quite reckless in the wrong circumstances. Id' also wager that you're simply just not going to use it anywhere near as much as you would think in that lifestyle.

All of these menial stopgap toolbox type measures are ok on short trips, but the risk factor is increased the longer that vehicle is "on the road"....going away for along weekend hunting is entirely different to living out the rest of your days on the highway. There's a lot that Australia has gotten wrong over the last few decades of bumbling through poorly administered firearms legislation, but strict safe storage is absolutely valuable.
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Re: Touring ( no fixed address)

Post by animalpest » 04 Jun 2023, 8:58 pm

So is there any difference ( legally) to go on a 1-4 week camping/hunting trip to various places versus extended travelling in a caravan?
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Re: Touring ( no fixed address)

Post by geoff » 04 Jun 2023, 9:34 pm

animalpest wrote:So is there any difference ( legally) to go on a 1-4 week camping/hunting trip to various places versus extended travelling in a caravan?


The OP in this thread implied that they didn't want to have a fixed address, which in most states would be a non starter with the licensing branch. Rightly or wrongly, I can't see too many firearms registries in Australia allowing you to keep a firearms licence without a fixed address. My argument wasn't necessarily from the perspective of what is legal now, just stating that I do not believe that there should be an exemption from safe storage requirements for those with no fixed address who intend to permanently or semi permantly store their firearms in a trailer.

I am anecdotally aware of some court proceedings that relate to the matter of safe storage while out camping which have been successfully defended by the licensee, but as I cannot tell you the exact details i'll refrain from relying on it. You're probably more knowledgeable than me on that front anyway.

EDIT: Sorry, i see what you were asking now. I think what you're alluding to, at least in WA, is the difference between storage and otherwise than by means of storage? Chitty etc have had a hard time debating that in the past. I think you would be up against a very steep hill to climb if you were going to argue before the court that in this sort of arrangement - a grey nomad travelling around for an indeterminate period of time - the firearms were not just in storage. That supreme court precedent described a difference between transit and storage.

"I am going from my house to Property A to shoot for 4 nights before returning to my home" is not considered storing a firearm under that precedent.

"I am driving around the State and occasionally stopping in at properties I have permission to shoot on, with no fixed timeline or schedule, nor commitment to return the firearms to my home address at a point in time" is clearly not consistent with that.
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Re: Touring ( no fixed address)

Post by Oldbloke » 04 Jun 2023, 11:00 pm

animalpest wrote:So is there any difference ( legally) to go on a 1-4 week camping/hunting trip to various places versus extended travelling in a caravan?


IMO no difference. Plenty go on a looong holiday. However Geoff is pretty right about van security.
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