Possession of handgun ammo

[Wm.Traynor]

Is it legal for the holder of an AB licence in QLD,to have handgun ammo on the premises, in a locked container?

[stihl88]

Not if it's dual purpose rifle calibre/ammo also.

[Tassiebloke]

depends. if you have a weapon chambered for it (maybe a lever action 38 special, 357 mag, 44 mag, 454 etc) then you're all good. if it's 9mm or something handgun specific, and you don't have the licence and firearm to go with it, you could get in a lot of trouble as far as i am aware. if i'm wrong on that someone correct me, but to the best of my knowledge you can only have ammunition for the weapons listed on your licence.

[bladeracer]

depends. if you have a weapon chambered for it (maybe a lever action 38 special, 357 mag, 44 mag, 454 etc) then you're all good. if it's 9mm or something handgun specific, and you don't have the licence and firearm to go with it, you could get in a lot of trouble as far as i am aware. if i'm wrong on that someone correct me, but to the best of my knowledge you can only have ammunition for the weapons listed on your licence.

As far as I'm aware all states except WA allow you to possess ammo suitable for any firearm of the categories you are licenced for, since we can borrow firearms and need to be able possess ammo for them. WA only allows you to possess ammo suitable for a firearm _specifically_ listed on your licence, as you can't borrow firearms you have no cause to possess ammunition for somebody else's firearm.

The standard CatA/B licence covers almost any ammo as there are rifles chambered in pistol cartridges, and a CatH licence also covers most things as there are pistols chambered in rifle cartridges, though I don't think they're very common here - break-action Metallic Silhouette pistols in .308, .45-70, etc for example. There are also chamber adapters to use pistol cartridges in rifles and shotguns.

As for the legality in Qld, I would have to look at the regs up there. If you have the keys to the locked ammo box then the ammo is still accessible by you so that would be irrelevant - all ammo needs to be secured anyway. I would say that if it is ammo that you can use in a firearm in a category you are licenced for then you're allowed to possess it. If you lawfully can use a 12ga. chamber adapter for .32ACP or 9mm then you can possess ammo for it.

[Tassiebloke]

depends. if you have a weapon chambered for it (maybe a lever action 38 special, 357 mag, 44 mag, 454 etc) then you're all good. if it's 9mm or something handgun specific, and you don't have the licence and firearm to go with it, you could get in a lot of trouble as far as i am aware. if i'm wrong on that someone correct me, but to the best of my knowledge you can only have ammunition for the weapons listed on your licence.

As far as I'm aware all states except WA allow you to possess ammo suitable for any firearm of the categories you are licenced for, since we can borrow firearms and need to be able possess ammo for them. WA only allows you to possess ammo suitable for a firearm _specifically_ listed on your licence, as you can't borrow firearms you have no cause to possess ammunition for somebody else's firearm.

The standard CatA/B licence covers almost any ammo as there are rifles chambered in pistol cartridges, and a CatH licence also covers most things as there are pistols chambered in rifle cartridges, though I don't think they're very common here - break-action Metallic Silhouette pistols in .308, .45-70, etc for example. There are also chamber adapters to use pistol cartridges in rifles and shotguns.

As for the legality in Qld, I would have to look at the regs up there. If you have the keys to the locked ammo box then the ammo is still accessible by you so that would be irrelevant - all ammo needs to be secured anyway. I would say that if it is ammo that you can use in a firearm in a category you are licenced for then you're allowed to possess it. If you lawfully can use a 12ga. chamber adapter for .32ACP or 9mm then you can possess ammo for it.

thanks for letting me know...i guess you learn new things every day

[Wm.Traynor]

Thank you everyone for your contributions. I am going to, "play it safe"

[Larry]

Thank you everyone for your contributions. I am going to, "play it safe"

No real need or benifit of having ammo for a gun you dont have or dont have access to anyway. Just a waste of money purchasing it only to have it sit in a locked box for years on end until that day when it might get used.

[stihl88]

If you lawfully can use a 12ga. chamber adapter for .32ACP or 9mm then you can possess ammo for it.

Is there a lawful reason or use of 12 adapters or are we hamstrung on using them as it effectively changes the caliber of the firearm... or does it?

[bladeracer]

If you lawfully can use a 12ga. chamber adapter for .32ACP or 9mm then you can possess ammo for it.

Is there a lawful reason or use of 12 adapters or are we hamstrung on using them as it effectively changes the caliber of the firearm... or does it?

Yes, there are lawful reasons to use them. They're especially useful for pistol load development that would otherwise require you to attend an approved pistol range to test your ammo in a handgun. You can also get them for larger rifle chamberings to use .32ACP in .303/7.62x54R, or .45Colt in .577/450, and others to make shooting cheaper or just more viable for those that don't want to handload for them. The pistol-caliber adaptors are really only as useful as a handgun might be, similar accuracy and power, so not enormously useful here in Oz, in other countries it would be more sensible to carry a handgun for the purpose. But in some of the rifle chamberings, like .30-30, 7.62x39mm or .45-70 they can definitely be considered useful to take larger beasts when hunting with a shotgun.https://chaszel.com/product-category/shotgun-adapters/ High-velocity rifle cartridges operate at far higher pressures then shotguns are designed to cope with, but the short barrel lengths greatly reduce the pressures reached, and the heavy steel adapter adds significant strength to the shotgun's chamber.

They are unregulated in Victoria, same as barrels, so anybody can own them. As they're not permanent I doubt anybody would consider them to change the chambering or caliber of a firearm, but I guess it's possible.

[1776]

Not to sound like a smart ar*e but I suggest you learn the law.

There is no such thing as "handgun ammo" in Queensland. Ammunition in Queensland falls under the Explosive Act(1999) and its subsequent regulation(2017).

Everything under 1 inch in calibre(25.4mm) is called "smalls arms ammunition" and it only requires a licence issued under the weapons act to purchase or possess. The top middle of your licence will state weapons act 1990.

So if it is under 1 inch and you have any licence issued under the weapons act( firearms, cancelable firearms, collector, dealer, armourer, instructor etc) you can purchase and posses it. You must however buy it from someone who is licensed to sell explosives as this is a different licence then a firearms dealer licence. This is because firearms licence falls under the weapons act and small arms ammunition falls under the explosive act. Government overreach at its best.

[stihl88]

Ok great, will look into these. I've seen some used in the States over the years but thought with the laws here we'd be bound up in caliber change laws and such.

[bladeracer]

Ok great, will look into these. I've seen some used in the States over the years but thought with the laws here we'd be bound up in caliber change laws and such.

If you're concerned I would email Firearms Licencing and ask their advice. I have some of the rifled Chiappa ones, about seven-inches long so they're useful for load development for handguns. As I said earlier, I don't think they have much value in a practical way here, but are very compact so can be easily carried along with a few rounds. If you were hunting deer or pigs or something with slugs you might find it useful to drop in the adaptor to finish off a wounded animal rather than use a slug at near-contact range. Or if you were hunting birds and saw pigs you could drop in the adapter and use a .45Colt or .44Mag to deal with those, though it would make more sense to carry some slugs. I use them in the under-over and the straight-pull. The first is very, very quick and easy, the straight-pull take perhaps a minute to swap it in or out as you have to pull the barrel. I did find that the 9mm in particular does shoot to a significantly different point of aim from the two barrels of the under-over gun. It's possible this can be addressed to some degree by indexing the adapter perhaps. I used the Marlin '94 .44Mag to drop some cows this year, which was very successful so I'm considering for next time whether the shorter adapter might be just as effective in the straight-pull for the job. A bit less noise (lower velocity) but it saves having the more expensive Marlin in the cattle yard when I can use the plastic T1000 instead. I know the 240gn was doing 1750fps in the carbine, I would guess it'd be more like 1100-1200fps in the pistol length barrel, possibly even subsonic, I'll have to chronograph it.

The Chiappa set does .380ACP, 9mmPara, .38/.357Mag, .40S&W, .44Mag, .45ACP, .45Colt/.410, and 20ga. The .45Colt/.410 one is rifled. I don't know whether the 20ga. is smoothbore or rifled.
https://enoughgun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=10176
I just checked and they don't seem to be listed on Chiappa's site so it's possible they stopped making them. I bought most from Cleaver but had to get the .44Mag one from somewhere else, very few places actually had them in stock at the time.

[stihl88]

I can certainly see a use for them even if it's plinking and stuffing around firing off some old handgun rounds. I've seen the kit before somewhere, might have been Cleavers online or Brownell's.

Thinking on the "caliber change" one could pop a 45-70 ---> .410 or a .222 ---> .223 and although stupid and you've technically fired a different caliber than what the firearm is chambered for it's not illegal and you haven't permanently modified the firearms caliber as is the case with these converters/adapters they're not permanently modifying the firearm.

I think they're a great idea.

[bladeracer]

I can certainly see a use for them even if it's plinking and stuffing around firing off some old handgun rounds. I've seen the kit before somewhere, might have been Cleavers online or Brownell's.

Thinking on the "caliber change" one could pop a 45-70 ---> .410 or a .222 ---> .223 and although stupid and you've technically fired a different caliber than what the firearm is chambered for it's not illegal and you haven't permanently modified the firearms caliber as is the case with these converters/adapters they're not permanently modifying the firearm.

I think they're a great idea.

I think it's something that if they wanted it to be illegal they would've made a very simple law to do so, which they haven't bothered doing as far as I'm aware.

I wish now that I'd bought the full set if they're not making them anymore, but I didn't see any value to .380, .40 or 20ga. The first two are not common in handguns here anymore, and almost unheard of in rifles, and if you're going to buy 20gauge ammo you'd surely have a 20 gauge gun anyway. They were $130 each at the time, so I saved $400 by ignoring those three.

In the US you can get longer adaptors, about 16" I think, which would be more useful but would probably cost to import as much as buying a cheap rifle in the chambering, which also has better accuracy and capacity.

[str8shutr]

Is it legal for the holder of an AB licence in QLD,to have handgun ammo on the premises, in a locked container?

Check the relevant Act / Regulations.

I'll leave you to do your own research but here are some potentially useful pointers:
QPS WLB Firearms Storage Brochure
Qld Weapons Act 1990
Qld Weapons Regulation 2016
Qld Explosives Act 1999
Qld Explosives Regulation 2017

From a quick keyword search of the Weapons Act / Regs, and leaving aside security guard work that I assume is not relevant here, I can't spot where there are restrictions on ammunition possession for firearm licence holders. Quick search - I may have missed something.

My understanding of the Qld scene is confirmed by:
https://www.police.qld.gov.au/weapon-li ... nd-weapons
Specifically, take a look at the question, "Does military ordnance require licensing?"

That FAQ response indicates that regulation of ammunition in general falls under the jurisdiction of Resources Safety & Health Queensland via the Explosives Act.

The Qld Explosives Act details who can sell and be sold explosives, along with who can manufacture explosives. The definition of explosives includes small arms ammunition. The supporting regulations then detail matters further going into requirements around storage and of particular interest is s.83 Persons to whom explosives may be sold.

Take a look in the various Acts & Regs and tell me where the legislation limits the form, type, calibre or any other specific detail regarding "small arms ammunition"?

From my reading the wording is generic and if you possess a licence for a firearm, then it's within the law (as in Qld law) to be sold small arms ammunition without consideration of the firearm category in the process (also noting that it's a given that the seller has legitimate authority to transact the sale).

Make sense or is there another interpretation?

[Wm.Traynor]

Thank you str8shutr,
I came here tonight to escape studying a house insurance proposal, only to find that I have to do some lawyering and more, intense reading. Don't get me wrong. Your efforts are appreciated in finding all that for me.
But right now I am a bit overwhelmed by it all and the house is going to come first, so thanks again and Good Hunting

[str8shutr]

No worries.

Unfortunately with this sort of stuff, I don't want to be "... the guy on the internet ..." if you need to explain your situation to someone with a badge.

I'm confident with my take on things but I'm open to being shown any points of oversight. All the best with the house insurance.

[JSS]

Is it legal for the holder of an AB licence in QLD,to have handgun ammo on the premises, in a locked container?

Yes it is legal, if you have any firearms license in Qld you can legally buy and have any ammo for other category firearms, including all reloading components (powders, primers, casings & projectiles) for any calibre.