Mounting a safe in a Queenslander

[Turtle]

Hey there,

I’m hoping someone can provide some clarity or been in the same situation. I’m starting the licensing journey and looking into the safe storage of firearms and it states the safe must be mounted to the floor or frame of the building if under 150kgs. Now my problem is I own an old Qlder and VJ walls don’t have a frame and drilling into my 130yr old flooring is a big no go. There is a concrete slab under the house but this is not secure, so not really an option.

Would securing the safe to the solid timber VJ wall be considered the same as securing to the frame? Also like most Qlders, mine has a large deck out the back only accessible from the house, would this also be an appropriate position?

Thanks for any insights and help

[bladeracer]

Hey there,

I’m hoping someone can provide some clarity or been in the same situation. I’m starting the licensing journey and looking into the safe storage of firearms and it states the safe must be mounted to the floor or frame of the building if under 150kgs. Now my problem is I own an old Qlder and VJ walls don’t have a frame and drilling into my 130yr old flooring is a big no go. There is a concrete slab under the house but this is not secure, so not really an option.

Would securing the safe to the solid timber VJ wall be considered the same as securing to the frame? Also like most Qlders, mine has a large deck out the back only accessible from the house, would this also be an appropriate position?

Thanks for any insights and help

You're going to have to ask Police or Weapons Licencing as they're the ones that will be charging you if they don't like it. Might just be less of a headache to buy a 150kg+ safe.

[9.3x64]

If it were me I would just buy a heavier, and bigger safe.

[Turtle]

Thanks guys, I’d really like to avoid the size and cost of a 150kg safe for my first couple of guns. I guess I’ll call weapons licensing and see if I can get a straight answer

[No1_49er]

Thanks guys, I’d really like to avoid the size and cost of a 150kg safe for my first couple of guns. I guess I’ll call weapons licensing and see if I can get a straight answer

Sooner or later you are going to need a (much) larger safe, so I'd suggest you bight the bullet and make a good start
I'd also give consideration to sitting down with pencil and paper , and very carefully crafting your question/s to Weapons Licencing, before you sent your email to them. Better to get a response in writing. You will want (straight) answers to specifics of the Act/Regulations, which I would hope they will quote.

[Oldbloke]

NFI what VJ walls are. Perhaps the local gun club could help? Or as previously mentioned, email police.

[straightshooter]

I assume by VJ you mean a vertical tongue and groove wall lining.
The simple thing is that the timber is not self supporting and must be fixed to a frame so you should be able to locate studs and noggins and plan your attachment around them. Your safe will need to be wide enough to easily span 2 studs which will likely be on 18 inch centers in an older constructed dwelling.
Don't expect help from your FAR. If they are anything like the NSW FAR they won't provide anything that could be construed as legal guidance and at best will refer you to a publication.

[alexjones]

I suggest you learn the law. It does not say it must be "mounted" as you claim it says "securely fixed". Only category D,H or R firearms must be bolted(regardless of the container weight). Category A,B,C,E,M only have to be securely fixed to the frame or floor of a permeant building if under 150kg. You can see the difference in wording so securely fixed can be a simple as nailing into the wall just so long as it doesn't rock around.

Weapons regulation 2016 section 94(5).

Also a gun safe is referred to as a container.

[Turtle]

By VJ wall, I’m referring to the single skin vertical tongue and groove walls. These do not have a cavity. They do not have studs and noggins like a modern house does. They are self supporting. Usually the only framing is an external frame around the doorway, a picture rail at about 2m from the floor and a belt line about 5ft to hold the individual planks from spreading( taller than all the safes I’ve been looking at) The exterior walls usually have a second one externally

[Oldbloke]

Are you able to use a garage perhaps??

[Turtle]

Don’t have a garage. Under the house is not secure and probably too susceptible to moisture as well

[Marlin44]

That is a question best answered by WLB BUT get it in writing from them.

[alexjones]

That is a question best answered by WLB BUT get it in writing from them.

WLB are not the law. They do not provide legal advise. There is also no case law on the matter.

The wording of "securely fixed to the frame or floor of a permeant building" is rather clear in my opinion. It just needs to be be secured to the structure by any means. Could be as simple as a nail through the container and into the gyprock. Or even a steal chain linking the container to a secure point of the structure. It does not need to be complicated. Just drill into the floor or wall with screws or bolts and be done with it. Or buy a container over 150kg.

[Marlin44]

That is a question best answered by WLB BUT get it in writing from them.

WLB are not the law. They do not provide legal advise. There is also no case law on the matter.

The wording of "securely fixed to the frame or floor of a permeant building" is rather clear in my opinion. It just needs to be be secured to the structure by any means. Could be as simple as a nail through the container and into the gyprock. Or even a steal chain linking the container to a secure point of the structure. It does not need to be complicated. Just drill into the floor or wall with screws or bolts and be done with it. Or buy a container over 150kg.

Did you not read the original post. Not wanting to put holes in floor and questionable about fixing to a wall.

WLB officers do enforce the Weapons Act and it's regulations (laws)

Your opinion is exactly that, an opinion or interpretation of a small section of the Weapons Act. Ultimately it will be one of the local LEO's doing the secure storage inspection that will make that call with his or her interpretation of "securely fixed to the frame or floor of a permanent building".

The OP could say a bloke on a forum told me to do this and that OR I contacted WLB and this was the officers response.
In my many dealings with WLB, they have mostly been very helpful, where they can assist. Like any Govt Dept., make a note of who you are speaking with or communicate via email.

[Oldbloke]

Local copper would likely do the inspection I guess. Ask them?

[zbenga]

buy a smaller safe and measure and get some metal work place to cut a bunch of steel plates and make it 150kg, no idea if legal but you could also tie it a chain if you read the law and interpret it accordingly

as someone others have said, bug a bigger safe you will need it

from my experience with an average size safe around $700 to $900 if you only bolt it to the floor (I know you don't want to do this) and rock it it will slightly bend and wobble a little and police might say it's not secure enough, if you fix it to the floor and wall it's solid and will not budge

now to be honest in Queensland you can go make your own safe out of solid wood and make it part of the house and be done with that, in QLD it's legal to have a solid wood safe! go figure! made for Queenslanders like yours

[alexjones]

I had a think about this and some kind of glue or adhesive would satisfy the legal meaning of "securely fixed".

[yoshie]

I would make a frame the same size as the safe, secure it from the other side, use nylock nuts the will be inaccessible when covered by the safe and the use coach bolts to secure the safe to the frame. This will also step the safe out past the base board. It's not an ideal solution but it will pass the wiggle test. Use 8mm coach bolts. This is what I did in a rental. I also used 2 bolts through the floor, I put a piece of wood between the joists and plugged the floor boards with hard wood dowels when I left.