Can't handle a rifle in store without a licence?

[samoohrye]

I've spent the last few weekends looking through my local gun stores, looking for my first rifle.

The first few were no problems. I handled a few rifles, worked the actions etc. At the last store the guy serving wouldn't let me touch a thing ?

Said I couldn't handle anything cause I didn't have a licence. I was upfront about this at the other stores with no probs?

Fair enough not being able to go shooting without a licence, but to not even handle a rifle in a store?

Is that right?

[Gregg]

That's a first for me?

I've handled rifles plenty of times before having a licence in store, and not been asked for it when I had one anyway?

[Blackened]

Sounds like you just got a salesman who couldn't be bothered serving you to be honest.

You can definitely handle in store without a licence.

[Norton]

Take your business elsewhere. Store just couldn't be bothered helping you.

[Member-Deleted]

Take your business elsewhere. Store just couldn't be bothered helping you.

Agreed. Give your hard earned money to a store which wants your business.

Firearms industry is the worst for customer service. I f***ing hate it.

[samoohrye]

I thought that was the case.

Thanks all. I will give my hard earned cash to somewhere else that wants my business.

[agentzero]

Give your hard earned money to a store which wants your business.

Firearms industry is the worst for customer service. I f***ing hate it.

I thought that was the case.

Thanks all. I will give my hard earned cash to somewhere else that wants my business.

Yep and yep.

Bad service = go elsewhere. Gotta teach these retailer that.

[Monty]

Bad service = go elsewhere. Gotta teach these retailer that.

Same problems everywhere...

There are obviously good gun stores out there too, but there are plenty which have a real elitist culture in them in my experience.

[Kipper]

...there are plenty which have a real elitist culture in them in my experience.

Don't we get that a lot

People either can't be eff'd serving you cause they're too busy fondling the stock, or they act like they're too good for you because they work at a gun store.

New flash jerks, we all have guns - you're not special.

[raptor_256]

guess it varies. ive been in one store where someone without a licence has handled firearms. ive been in one where we were asked for licences before holding anything, and ive been in one where we couldnt hold them without licences, even though the firearms are chained to the counter before handling them.

my friends and i definitely got the same vibe from several stores before getting our licences, but now we are semi regulars in the stores the attitude has changed.

[MR. WINCHESTER]

Are you in W.A / Alice's Wonderland ?

( I feel constrained by rules and regulations, here in N.S.W ...but, am staggered by the ****** you have had to endure )

[Baronvonrort]

Sounds like you just got a salesman who couldn't be bothered serving you to be honest.

You can definitely handle in store without a licence.

There was a middle aged man next to me in a Sydney gun shop who was told he couldn't handle a rifle without having a license, he even brought the gun down from display to show the person and refused to let him touch it so I doubt it had anything to do with serving him.

I think it was the owner of the shop who refused to let him hold it.

[sandgroperbill]

Nope. Not a WA thing. I've had the whole counter covered in rifles while I fondled them trying to decide what fit me best.

[happyhunter]

I've spent the last few weekends looking through my local gun stores, looking for my first rifle.

The first few were no problems. I handled a few rifles, worked the actions etc. At the last store the guy serving wouldn't let me touch a thing ?

Said I couldn't handle anything cause I didn't have a licence. I was upfront about this at the other stores with no probs?

Fair enough not being able to go shooting without a licence, but to not even handle a rifle in a st
Is that right?

hahahaha.. seriously dude! You just dogged on yourself. You definitely cannot be in posession of a firearm without a current license. I'm all for shops letting people handle the hardware but it is illlegal to do so. The shop that refused is just sticking to the rules.

The shops that refuse unlicensed punters to handle firearms are protecting themselves from prosecution so here;'s a tip.. if you going to break the law don't announce it on a public forum

[<<Genesis93>>]

yep.... most gunstores, unless you look overly dodgy, will let you handle a firearm, but according to 'the law' possession is defined as physical possession as in 'in your hands' which you need a licence for.

Unless you're at a range being supervised, may be a variation in bananaland

[pomemax]

FIREARMS ACT 1996 - SECT 50B

Giving possession of firearms or firearm parts to unauthorised persons
50B Giving possession of firearms or firearm parts to unauthorised persons

(1) A person must not give possession of a firearm to another person unless the other person is authorised to possess the firearm by a licence or permit or is otherwise authorised to have possession of the firearm.
Maximum penalty: imprisonment for 14 years if the firearm concerned is a pistol or prohibited firearm, or imprisonment for 5 years in any other case.
Note : Offences relating to “supply” (ie transferring ownership) are set out elsewhere in this Part.
(2) A person must not give possession of a firearm part to another person unless the other person is the holder of a licence or permit for the kind of firearm to which the firearm part relates or is otherwise authorised to have possession of the firearm part.
Maximum penalty: imprisonment for 14 years if the firearm part relates solely to any kind of pistol or prohibited firearm, or imprisonment for 5 years in any other case.
most gun shops follow the act to the letter just so the don,t break and laws by mistake even in a shop situation

[tom604]

the cops would have to draw a long bow to say touching a rifle in a store is "in possession" of said rifle , no way would i part with my cash without touching, feeling, holding, stroking. hugging,,, mmmm may of worked out why im not allowed back to my lgs

[gillian]

As was explained to me by a dealer

joe blow walks in to a gun shop and asks to have a look at a firearm, employee hands over said firearm and promptly nicks off with the firearm
the employee and dealer get in the s**t for loosing a firearm and know one knows who joe blow is
by asking for a licence the employee should at least looks at the name and expiry date (he might even remind you that your licence expires in a month) so if you do a runner they at least know your name

the same reason car dealers ask for a copy of your licence when taking a new car for a test drive to ensure you are licenced and you are who you say you are in case you do a runner with the new car or have a prang, run a red light ect

[bladeracer]

http://www.legislation.vic.gov.au/domin ... orised.pdf

Definitions:
"Acquire" does not include borrowing.
"Carry" includes carrying parts of a firearm.
"Dispose of" includes offering to sell but does not include lending.
"Possession" includes physical possession, control or access to a firearm.

That seems to say that merely having access to a firearm is sufficient for you to be "in possession" of it.

Something I'd never spotted before, a security guard handgun licence does not allow carriage or possession of "not factory manufactured ammunition", or magnum loads, or full metal cased bullets.

[Gwion]

the cops would have to draw a long bow to say touching a rifle in a store is "in possession" of said rifle , no way would i part with my cash without touching, feeling, holding, stroking. hugging,,, mmmm may of worked out why im not allowed back to my lgs

Not really... possession is being in control of the firearm. Essentially, if it is in your hands or you have ready access t it, you are in possession. No worries if a licenced shooter wants to handle the firearm but not for 'unauthorised' individuals.

[<<Genesis93>>]

http://www.legislation.vic.gov.au/domino/Web_Notes/LDMS/LTObject_Store/LTObjSt6.nsf/dde300b846eed9c7ca257616000a3571/09c184d87048bd4aca2579ff00167754/$FILE/96-66aa064%20authorised.pdf

Definitions:
"Acquire" does not include borrowing.
"Carry" includes carrying parts of a firearm.
"Dispose of" includes offering to sell but does not include lending.
"Possession" includes physical possession, control or access to a firearm.

That seems to say that merely having access to a firearm is sufficient for you to be "in possession" of it.

Something I'd never spotted before, a security guard handgun licence does not allow carriage or possession of "not factory manufactured ammunition", or magnum loads, or full metal cased bullets.

Yup. Those legends made further changes of late, I believe after that female was pulled over with a box of unregistered/stolen/modified etc guns on the passenger seat, claimed they werent hers, pulled a 'Schultz' AND GOT OFF.....

NOW, say a crim is fleeing a robbery, runs past your place and tosses the sawed of pumpie in the front yard..... YOU are now in possession of the said 12g...

As far as 'magnum' loads...WTF is a magnum load?? magnum was a marketing term though up to sell the new larger rounds, like a Champagne 'magnum' (2xstandard size)... if you have a 357Magnum, does that mean you can't use a standard 357'magnum' round????

....and full metal cased bullets?? if at war they would be compelled to use such extra more dangerouser sounding things...

[doc]

the cops would have to draw a long bow to say touching a rifle in a store is "in possession" of said rifle , no way would i part with my cash without touching, feeling, holding, stroking. hugging,,, mmmm may of worked out why im not allowed back to my lgs

And in that situation, most people would likely already hold a license so it wouldn't be an issue. You can hug that gun all you want. Unlicensed is another matter...

It's not a long bow at all to say someone holding a firearm in a store is "in possession" at all otherwise it would be OK for me to have an unlicensed shooter hold my firearms whilst I'm out and about, which is illegal (unless at a range).

Additionally, we'd be asking a store to potentially risk their firearm dealers license and a criminal charge for a possible sale of someone who does not yet hold a license. Who knows if the DFO has already given some of these stores a warning about making sure only licensed people handle firearms.

While I can understand it's an inconvenience - if you look at it from the sake of the shop owner, and the risk vs potential outcome - I completely understand why some stores have decided to play it straight.

[bladeracer]

Yup. Those legends made further changes of late, I believe after that female was pulled over with a box of unregistered/stolen/modified etc guns on the passenger seat, claimed they werent hers, pulled a 'Schultz' AND GOT OFF.....

NOW, say a crim is fleeing a robbery, runs past your place and tosses the sawed of pumpie in the front yard..... YOU are now in possession of the said 12g...

As far as 'magnum' loads...WTF is a magnum load?? magnum was a marketing term though up to sell the new larger rounds, like a Champagne 'magnum' (2xstandard size)... if you have a 357Magnum, does that mean you can't use a standard 357'magnum' round????

....and full metal cased bullets?? if at war they would be compelled to use such extra more dangerouser sounding things...

Section 145 Evidence of possession
In any proceedings under this Act, evidence that a person occupies any land or premises on or in which any firearm is found is evidence, and, in the
absence of evidence to the contrary, is proof that that person possessed the firearm.

But, Section 98 requires transfer of possession of a firearm to be "in person" unless you're a dealer??????

Since you can only use factory ammunition I would guess a magnum load would be anything marked as "magnum" by the manufacturer.
Yes, I read that as no possessing .357 magnum ammo if you own a .357 magnum on a security guard's licence.

I think the restriction on FMJ ammo is to minimise casualties from over-penetration.

[Manimal]

As was explained to me by a dealer

joe blow walks in to a gun shop and asks to have a look at a firearm, employee hands over said firearm and promptly nicks off with the firearm
the employee and dealer get in the s**t for loosing a firearm and know one knows who joe blow is
by asking for a licence the employee should at least looks at the name and expiry date (he might even remind you that your licence expires in a month) so if you do a runner they at least know your name

the same reason car dealers ask for a copy of your licence when taking a new car for a test drive to ensure you are licenced and you are who you say you are in case you do a runner with the new car or have a prang, run a red light ect

The above is a difference issue to not being "legally" allowed to handle it which is the reason samoohrye was knocked back for though.

And P.S. to the store, has that ever happened every? Anywhere here?

[pogmahon]

Interesting thread. I got the same response recently in a Western Suburbs Melb store and was quite surprised. Salesman must have thought i'd want to rip off a few dry fires lol. I've been the holder of a shooter's licence, owned my own firearms and have a reasonable amount of experience as an Army Reservist when i was much younger. Needless to say when i elected to purchase my LA101 Crossover 17HMR it wasn't from where i received this treatment.

Graeme

[Adlippy]

Happens to me everytime I enter a gun shop (three in Sydney and two in country NSW), before I had my license I wasnt allowed to touch.A few times in country NSW i was with a bloke who comes from a big gun owning family which is well known by the the LGS Owner and he still wasnt allowed to touch as he wasnt licensed at the time

[dpskipper]

From my experience, most gun stores have no problems letting you handle it as long as you look half decent. Whenever I was looking at guns in a store, but didn't have a licence at that stage, I just talked to the bloke who was there with idle gun chit chat to assure him I was a shooter and not some nut job who just wanted to steal a gun. He happily let me handle it with no hesitation because I had established that I was a decent guy.
My advice is if you don't have a licence to produce, then chat with the dude first, then ask to look at a gun. Don't just walk in and ask for it.