What type of container should I have for ammunition?

[happyhunter]

So If I do store my ammo in the dedicated ammo storage compartment that safes have and it has its own set of keys that are different from the gun safe, is that good enough/legal for ammo storage?

Yep.

[wade06]

I only have a small lokaway gun safe and the in-built ammo storage box won't be enough if i ever get a 12 gauge.
A friend uses a fridge with padlocks for ammo storage. Is this legal in NSW or does it need to be bolted down?
I was thinking about a lockable metal tool box which i could screw to a timber stud wall.

[bladeracer]

So If I do store my ammo in the dedicated ammo storage compartment that safes have and it has its own set of keys that are different from the gun safe, is that good enough/legal for ammo storage?

Yes and no.
I would expect VicPol to accept it as "good enough", but in court the law would say it's not strictly legal.
I did find a document from VicPol that says that a secondary internal receptacle "that is purpose built for storing ammunition" is legal.
But as ammunition storage is pretty relaxed, I don't know how you'd determine that anything is "purpose built" for the task.
A plastic box with a padlock complies with the ammunition storage requirements so the lockable bolt storage compartment of a gun safe would seem to comply with that. But again, that was a VicPol document, not a Law.

Personally, I don't see any advantage to storing my ammo in the safe. An ammo box that is not attached to the building is far more useful, and an ammo cupboard mounted to the wall above my reloading bench is much handier than the gun safe.

I haven't seen any requirement to allow Police to inspect your ammunition storage, but I would expect them to inspect any compartment inside your gun safe to ensure there's no ammunition stored with your firearms. Anybody that's had an inspection recently able to elaborate?

I have a guy coming out this arvo to give me a quote for an alarm system to protect my safes.

[Wylie27]

Wade,

For NSW

http://www.police.nsw.gov.au/__data/ass ... 6_V1.7.pdf

[happyhunter]

So If I do store my ammo in the dedicated ammo storage compartment that safes have and it has its own set of keys that are different from the gun safe, is that good enough/legal for ammo storage?

Yes and no.
I would expect VicPol to accept it as "good enough", but in court the law would say it's not strictly legal.
I did find a document from VicPol that says that a secondary internal receptacle "that is purpose built for storing ammunition" is legal.
But as ammunition storage is pretty relaxed, I don't know how you'd determine that anything is "purpose built" for the task.
A plastic box with a padlock complies with the ammunition storage requirements so the lockable bolt storage compartment of a gun safe would seem to comply with that. But again, that was a VicPol document, not a Law.
.

Yes and No? hahahha.. read schedule 4 and the information on the PTA form.

[bladeracer]

So If I do store my ammo in the dedicated ammo storage compartment that safes have and it has its own set of keys that are different from the gun safe, is that good enough/legal for ammo storage?

Yes and no.
I would expect VicPol to accept it as "good enough", but in court the law would say it's not strictly legal.
I did find a document from VicPol that says that a secondary internal receptacle "that is purpose built for storing ammunition" is legal.
But as ammunition storage is pretty relaxed, I don't know how you'd determine that anything is "purpose built" for the task.
A plastic box with a padlock complies with the ammunition storage requirements so the lockable bolt storage compartment of a gun safe would seem to comply with that. But again, that was a VicPol document, not a Law.
.

Yes and No? hahahha.. read schedule 4 and the information on the PTA form.

Possibly
I noticed afterwards that the question was asked from Qld.
Are you in Qld?
I don't think I can read the online Qld PTA without putting in a ton of information?

[happyhunter]

QLD has a nice brochure with the requirements.
https://www.police.qld.gov.au/programs/ ... ochure.pdf

[Deacon]

So If I do store my ammo in the dedicated ammo storage compartment that safes have and it has its own set of keys that are different from the gun safe, is that good enough/legal for ammo storage?

Sure is. Just remember that it has to be locked even if the safe is shut and the keys can't be left in the safe. Sounds a bit obvious but I just keep cleaning gear and paperwork in the seperate part so I rarely lock it. If you're using it for ammo, component or bolt storage that's not an option.

[Lokvo]

QLD has a nice brochure with the requirements.
https://www.police.qld.gov.au/programs/ ... ochure.pdf

I can't believe I've never seen this brochure before! but that one line passage alone has answered my question, much appreciated mate! I especially like how it has the QLD police logo on the brochure so I can whip the brochure out and cite it if the cops say I'm not following the rules for any reason.

[happyhunter]

QLD has a nice brochure with the requirements.
https://www.police.qld.gov.au/programs/ ... ochure.pdf

I can't believe I've never seen this brochure before! but that one line passage alone has answered my question, much appreciated mate! I especially like how it has the QLD police logo on the brochure so I can whip the brochure out and cite it if the cops say I'm not following the rules for any reason.

No worries. Happy to help.

[JoeG]

I have recently broken my leg and cant get up the stairs to my bedroom.I have a bed downstairs. I was also recently served with a interim VRO, so they took my firearms and ammo. I forgot about some ammo in another safe, so doing the right thing, I handed it in a week later. All good. Yesterday I had 6 cars raid my house supposedly looking for more guns and ammo but all they found was 7 loose 410 shells in my office draw, in my bedroom upstars. Now I new they were there, but had no way of getting up there at the time I surrendered the rest of my ammo. Is this grounds for a not guilty charge or wont they care? Im in WA.
THANKS Joe.

[TassieTiger]

Sorry to hear Joe - been there myself and cost me a fortune to clear my name.
You have said, you knew the ammo was there - so you should have reported that when you handed other ammo in.
I’ve also had a broken leg and I rode motorbikes, climbed ladders and could certainly climb stairs. I’m sorry mate - but in my op, your prob going to have to ride the wave - but, I’d make a phone call regardless and see if they will be reasonable. If not - lodge a complaint with WA ombudsman (Tell the gops you intend to do this as well - might be enough for them to not bother), upload pics of stairs. Broken leg, any other evidence to online ombudsman’s complaint form to support your story. Good luck.

[AussieCapitalist]

What does your lawyer say Joe and what are you being charged with? Everything else aside you just admitted you new they were there and did not report it. Why did you not report it when you handed in your ammo if you new they were there? You could of told the police they were there when you handed in your other ammo and they could of came and picked them up. I am just thinking of what a lawyer would say to you mate.

Did they have a warrant to search your home? Was the search legal?

You don't need a forum mate, you need a LAWYER.

[Ziege]

My advice is to get a really good container for it

Cheerz

[Ziege]

Joe, do not pussy out of clearing your name, been there done that, if you take it on the chin the court and police and everyone else will assume you were guilty all along. Pm me if ya wanna hear more useful tips/decent lawyers etc, I'm in WA also. Cheers

[JoeG]

I didnt tell the cops I knew it was there. When asked, I said I forgot. I assume now that "forgot" sounds even more irresponsible, that is to say, I knew they where up there because I was shooting at foxes out my bedroom window then just left them there, then broke my leg. Then my mind was on other things, all in the space of one afternoon. The charge is "firearms offences" as yet. I am thinking of pleading guilty, and hoping the magistrate will drop the charge due to the circumstances. It was a compound fracture and dislocated ankle. The Dr said the worst break he has ever seen. Bone poking at right angles out the side. My stairs are almost ladder steep up to a mezzanine loft. Believe me, even when the police searched, they were aware I couldnt follow them upstairs. The bone still has not met in the middle to start healing. I have already spent $ks on lawyer to fight VRO.

[Ziege]

I didnt tell the cops I knew it was there. When asked, I said I forgot. I assume now that "forgot" sounds even more irresponsible, that is to say, I knew they where up there because I was shooting at foxes out my bedroom window then just left them there, then broke my leg. Then my mind was on other things, all in the space of one afternoon. The charge is "firearms offences" as yet. I am thinking of pleading guilty, and hoping the magistrate will drop the charge due to the circumstances. It was a compound fracture and dislocated ankle. The Dr said the worst break he has ever seen. Bone poking at right angles out the side. My stairs are almost ladder steep up to a mezzanine loft. Believe me, even when the police searched, they were aware I couldnt follow them upstairs. The bone still has not met in the middle to start healing. I have already spent $ks on lawyer to fight VRO.

If you plead guilty, you will be convicted and a conviction permanently recorded as well as whatever penalty they attach.

Do not plead guilty or anything until you have a good barrister, your biggest mistake was talking to police at all. You have made the lawyers job harder. Speak to the guy I mentioned in the pm I sent you, do not plead guilty and do not proceed with any court without a good barrister, you can ask for leave from the court to have time to arrange a barrister. So do it. Do not plead guilty at all!

[womble]

And against the grain again i go..

My ammo is stored in a seperate safe, seperate location. An expensive safe bolted down. Just for ammo.
This is not because i want to appease the regulations. I would do this even if there were none.
I do this because i do not like thieves taking what’s mine.
Nothing stops a determined thief. But i only need to slow them down.

Stolen firearms being used to commit crimes, seems to be getting a lot of use in police and media rhetoric these days.
Undoubtably it’s exaggerated to deflect reality.
To point the finger of blame at licenced owners in an indirect way.
It is a twisted sense of logic but they do employ it, in Victoria at least.
In some areas here you can receive a fine for leaving your vehicle unlocked. Because apparently that caused a thief to have access to it.

[JoeG]

Mate, there has to be a grey area here somewhere. I have a son and quite often we set up targets and shoot our sub sonic 22 from the back verandah together. Once a mate came around and I gave him a couple of shots of the 410. Subseqently the police came around to check and were happy I had a back stop and I was licenced and left. The thing is, over the course of the day (the shooting period) the ammo was all over the table on the back verandah. Now acording to law, this was "unsecured ammo". So why wasnt I charged then? (That was a rehtoricle question) I could understand if they found ammo lying all over the place, that would be irresponsible, but to have a couple of shells you are currentley/have recently been using? What about in your car going to a hunt? What about in your pocket leaving the ammo shop? Surley a couple of shells in your draw, (on the way to the safe) is a grey area?

[bladeracer]

Talk to one of the firearm lawyers, search Karrie Louden on Facebook, she and Ross Williamson are in Wa.

I think the fact that you surrendered the other ammo when were able to can be seen as evidence of good intent.

[AussieCapitalist]

Was the search lawful, did they have a warrant?

Firearm laws are rather clear in regards to storage requirements so I doubt there is a grey area mate. You really have to talk to a good lawyer mate. Yes it will cost a lot but do not plead guilty. You wont be able to get a passport among many other things for firearm offences.

[JoeG]

I dont think paying a couple of thousand to a lawyer is going to put it to the magistrate any different than I can. Its a pretty straght forward charge with a straight forward answer. I handed in 2500 rounds the week before, badly broke my leg and couldnt get up the loft (have taken pics) and was using the ammo the night before. Its not as if it was just laying around, so anyone had access to it? Ill let you know how I go.

[TassieTiger]

Just a query Joe - are you known to police at all? It sounds like they have visited you a couple times - has someone reported you in for shooting or is there a police station behind your back stop lol? 6 cars Attending sounds excessive for a one legged man...

Reason I ask - if someone has it in for you, if they’ve been in the ear of the police, if they have additional info/charges up their sleeve - a lawyer can find out by application for the charge brief. (You can as well but it will be difficult).
You might say - screw em or surely not, but police prosecution is a weird entity. Your a number to them, they want results and will do what ever to get fast results and move on.

You might find your charged on individual counts for each ammunition piece to bolster the sound of the case...”Mr Joe - your charged with 17 counts of firearms related offences but the prosecution is willing to drop 15 of those counts, if you plead guilty to count 1 and 17.”...etc etc.
I took prosecuting officer on once For a minor infraction (I’m not a lawyer but have had a passing interest lol) - they called 20 witnesses and demanded pre trial that I would have to pay for them all - trying to scare me out of the case...luckily the magistrate said that was excessive and told the prosecution off - but they don’t care, it happens all the time...it’s just another case to them.

Depending on circumstances - legal aid as a first call may be option, it’s free and some decent lawyers in there doing their civic duty. Also remember - if your successful with a lawyer, they are likely to apply to the court for their fee on your behalf.

[Ziege]

Yeah look I know it seems needlessly expensive, but s**t happens, don't proceed without a lawyer, not a s**ty solicitor either, always get a barrister at a minimum

[Farmerpete]

A guilty plea is an admission of guilt the only reason to do it is if your hoping for leniency.
If that's what your trying to achieve get a plea deal drawn up in exchange for your guilty plea i.e. non conviction and allowed to retain firearm license.
Don't just listen to the prosecutor or police who tell you the judge will go easier if you plead guilty. Follow these rules
1.Dont say a word (police are not your friends in this, their sole goal is to get a conviction)
2. Get legal representation (do not wave this right)
3. Only communicate in your attorney's presence and only
through him (he knows how to word things so you don't admit to more than you think you are) e.g. instead of saying "i knew they were in the draw but forgot to mention them at the station"
he might say "my client struggled down to the station on a broken leg to hand in all the ammunition he could safely gather from the house in order to fully comply after police left some behind during the initial firearm removal stage of enforcement"

[Ziege]

Exactly, police only ever speak to you when they don't have enough evidence to throw the cuffs on, they're never trying to help you, only convict you, they're on a fishing expedition and you have to give them 0 bites

[JoeG]

Brother inlaw, VRO, saying I had ilegal firearms, looking for false walls, found nothing. The police were actually pissed off that this peanut had made the whole story up. I have never had illegal firearms. As far as the grey area is concerened. This is it. If I am on my back verandah shooting my guns with my wife and son and have ammo all over the table and shells all over the floor, which happenes nearly every weekend, and I stop to get a drink, take a s**t, check my targets up close, get a allan key out of my shed or even walk around the front of my house to answer the police at my front door, or BREAKING A LEG AND BEING RUSHED TO HOSPITAL, THEN SIMPLY FORGETING ABOUT THE SHELLS IN MY TOP DRAW... Even though I have handed in 2500 rounds when I was able, BECAUSE I WAS DOING THE RIGHT THING. Surely, surely the magistrate must look at the cops and shake her head. Its not as if I had ammo stashed everywhere or just lying around in random spots like a redneck. Thanks for all you replies. I will talk to legal aid, (as I said earlier, I have just cleaned out my last 4k to pay for the VRO) This is a good forum. Its good to be able to talk to someone and share your fire arm problems.

[Farmerpete]

The vro being false goes in your favor but don't plead guilty the only way you'll get to tell your side is if you plead NOT guilty

[JoeG]

Oh, and I am a clean skin. This is my first offence.

[JoeG]

Thanks Farmerpete