Does a pre 1900 pistol need to be registered?

[kurl]

I've been looking at some of the old (real old) shooting memorabilia lately after a few meetings that have been on in Victoria lately.

I know the short version that pre-1900 firearms don't need to be registered, right?

What about a pre-1900 pistol specifically? We all know how much red-tape the government loves wrapping anything pistol in.

I'm sort of looking at one of the old, single shot style shooters. Don't have an exact one in mind at this point.

Is there anything over and above the pre-1900 requirements a pistol? Does this need to be registered or is it just another "firearm" under the same net?

Thanks.

[Releb]

No distinction between rifle and pistol for the pre-1900 gig AFAIK.

They're both just 'firearms'.

[Supporter]

I know the short version that pre-1900 firearms don't need to be registered, right?

Mmm, not quite.

A few rifle examples here, but same for pistols...

The Winchester 1894 is a pre-1900 design but is still being made currently... Had to be registered as normal.

On the other hand, they stopped making the Winchester 1866 prior to 1900... This would not have to be registered.

[Hercl]

The 'pre 1900' guideline is pretty useless TBH, as if ammo is still available or they made them after 1900 it doesn't mean anything.

Finding out the availability of ammo is the decided. If ammo is available for it in either black powder or modern cartridges, you will be required to register it.

[Carter]

The 'pre 1900' guideline is pretty useless TBH

Yep.

If they were made after that, or if cartridge ammo is available, or if you can substitute BP for smokeless rifle powder or vice versa etc. All voids the pre-1900 point.

[kurl]

Good news for the pistol then.

For all that though, where they they get the figure 1900 from then if so many other rules knock it over

[Hercl]

The idea is that any firearm made before 1900 is now so obsolete that you couldn't obtain ammunition for it anywhere.

If it's impossible to find ammunition then you don't really have a firearm anymore... You have a hammer instead.

Makes sense up to a point, but falls over at many more. e.g. Winchester made some rifles around that time which were huge steps forward and became very popular for decades after and were still made recently. Some are still being made like the various lever action Winchesters.

Even if you're particular Winchester 1894 was actually made in 1894, because they're still make them and supplies for them it's effectively an off the shelf modern rifle as far as the law is concerned.

Same for ammo. Even if the particular ammo that originally chambered in your pre-1900 rifle is no longer available, people make do other ways. Conversions are made to ammo, powder or cartridges so that they can be used. If this is the case then again, you just have a regular old 'firearm' and not an 'antique'.

[model41]

“Does a pre 1900 pistol need registered?”
Cartridge gun – yes
Percussion more than one shot – yes
Percussion only one shot – no

First be aware that the laws differ between states in some areas dramatically.

In Victoria there is a difference between pre 1900 hand guns and long arms.
One difference is percussion long arms are exempt hand guns with more than one shot are not.
Example
Long arm – I Hollis double barrel percussion 12 gauge – exempt
Handgun –1851 Colt navy 36 calibre percussion 6 shot revolver – not exempt
Handgun – 1850 English Tonks single barrel 50 bore – exempt

Another difference is that obsolete calibre pre 1900 handguns are not exempt.
Example
Long arm – 1894 Stephens favourite in 32 rimfire – exempt
Handgun – 1870 smith & Wesson Model 1 ½ in .32 rimfire – not exempt
An obsolete calibre is not commercially available, making the loads your self is not commercially available. Buying rounds of a ammo collector is not commercially available.

“I'm sort of looking at one of the old, single shot style shooters”
The single shot you mention is exempt as long as its percussion and pre 1900.

“Is there anything over and above the pre-1900 requirements a pistol? Does this need to be registered or is it just another "firearm" under the same net?”
Under the firearms act 1996 exempt firearms are not considered firearms under the act and therefore not subject to storage or licencing requirements. They can be hung on the wall not a problem at all.

Now shooting exempt firearms is a different kettle of fish.

[kurl]

“I'm sort of looking at one of the old, single shot style shooters”
The single shot you mention is exempt as long as its percussion and pre 1900.

Hey 41.

I'm not really fussed about the type, it's just for a collectable that I don't have to maintain a pistol license to have. If it's percussion that's as good as anything else for what I want.

Now shooting exempt firearms is a different kettle of fish.

Nah, not interested in firing it so no worries there.

Where to get one is the next thing...

[sooey]

Military collectors, antique places?

I guess you can get one from overseas too? There wouldn't be any customs drama since it's 'not a firearm' here I guess.

[Wobble]

There must be tonnes of them in the states with their civil war re-enactments and that stuff.

Wonder if their ITAR export restrictions apply to this stuff?

[model41]

“I guess you can get one from overseas too? There wouldn't be any customs drama since it's 'not a firearm' here I guess.”

Customs come under federal Laws.
Federal laws state you need to have permission from your state. In Vic that’s LRD.
To get the permission you fill out a B709 post it off to LRD, they stamp it and post back, there’s your permit for the cost of a stamp.
Now if customs seize it they make you pick it up. This can be a pain if you live too far away, 1 hour for me so I don’t mind.

“Where to get one is the next thing...”
Last Melbourne gun show I had a one for $150 and a few ranging from $500 to $1200.
The next show is July 5th & 6th then Ballarat 12th &13th.
There is always quite a few dealers selling them, I expect there will be a dozen or so around $500 even more over $1000 and more again >$2000.
About 1 in 20 antique stores will have some prices being more than double that of a gun shows.
Cheers

[sooey]

Customs come under federal Laws.
Federal laws state you need to have permission from your state. In Vic that’s LRD.
To get the permission you fill out a B709 post it off to LRD, they stamp it and post back, there’s your permit for the cost of a stamp.

Oh really? Well that's a friggen pain.

Need a permit to import a pistol you don't need a permit for... Great...

[kurl]

Last Melbourne gun show I had a one for $150 and a few ranging from $500 to $1200.
The next show is July 5th & 6th then Ballarat 12th &13th.
There is always quite a few dealers selling them, I expect there will be a dozen or so around $500 even more over $1000 and more again >$2000.

Thanks heaps mate.

Won't be spending anything like $1,200 for it.

If I could pick one up for $200-$300 that would be awesome.

[Lorgar]

I've been keen on doing this for a while too.

Will have to check out the July show.

[model41]

Don’t like you chances at $200 or $300, $400~$500 maybe, $500~600 definitely. Goodluck.

Anyway was checking out other legislation and came across this.
www.police.vic.gov.au/retrievemedia.asp?media_id=69255
Cheers.

[kurl]

Hmm, I'll check it out anyway.

$400 I can do. $600 is probably pushing it too far for a collectable...

[Hatter]

How sad is it they feel the need to specify what a toy gun is...