Permit to Acquire question

[bladeracer]

Been wondering about something for a while.
When I _buy_ a firearm I'm not allowed to have possession of it until after the Permit clears - is this correct?

A dealer delivered a rifle to my dealer yesterday and sent me a message that I could pick it up as soon as the permit clears. This is the first time I've heard this from a dealer so I thought I'd ask you guys

I've already looked at the regs and I can't see any requirement for the firearm you're purchasing to remain out of your possession until the permits clears.

http://www.police.vic.gov.au/content.as ... t_ID=34328

All I'm reading is that you can't _own_ the firearm until and if the permit clears - nothing about possessing or using it.

[No1Mk3]

G'day bladeracer,
Don't understand what you mean by "Permit clears". Do you mean until the Permit is issued to you and you have paid for it at the Westpac bank? This is the normal way of things, until you have the paid Permit in your hand the gun dealer will not give you possession of the firearm, unless he is a very good friend of yours who trusts you implicitly over several years. At law, the firearm remains registered to HIM until he has the signed Permit in his hand and the deal is entered in his Register, then, and ONLY then, is ownership transferred to you. Be that as it may, here in Victoria a dealer is allowed to lend, or even hire, a firearm to a licensed shooter, providing the fee is less than the purchase price of the gun, but it almost always only happens among close friends. Cheers.

[bladeracer]

G'day bladeracer,
Don't understand what you mean by "Permit clears". Do you mean until the Permit is issued to you and you have paid for it at the Westpac bank? This is the normal way of things, until you have the paid Permit in your hand the gun dealer will not give you possession of the firearm, unless he is a very good friend of yours who trusts you implicitly over several years. At law, the firearm remains registered to HIM until he has the signed Permit in his hand and the deal is entered in his Register, then, and ONLY then, is ownership transferred to you. Be that as it may, here in Victoria a dealer is allowed to lend, or even hire, a firearm to a licensed shooter, providing the fee is less than the purchase price of the gun, but it almost always only happens among close friends. Cheers.

I've only bought one firearm off the shelf of my LGS so that would've been registered to him I guess. Another I had him order in for me so that might be as well. But everything else has been bought elsewhere and posted to him for the transfer to me. Are these also registered to him when they arrive at his shop?

When I buy a rifle it gets sent to my dealer who lets me know it's arrived and puts through the permit to acquire for me online. Within hours the permit is granted. I cant see anything in the regs requiring him to insist on holding the firearm until the permit comes through. I've never seen an actual permit to acquire, never had one issued to me, and never gone to pay for one anywhere other than the dealer when I pick up the firearm. If I pay for a firearm (or anything else) and have a receipt to that effect then it belongs to me as far as I can see. If the permit is knocked back for some reason then I would not be allowed to _own_ the firearm, but I can still possess and use it as per my licence. I've always assumed the last thing a dealer wants cluttering his storage is a bunch of other people's firearms. If the permit is not granted is it registered to him or is it still registered to the person I bought it from? If my licence was fake or cancelled he probably wouldn't discover that until the permit is seen by Firearms Branch, which is of course a very good reason not to hand over a firearm to a purchaser. I can see that a high level of trust would be important. Makes sense...now that I've put some thought into it

Thanks for helping me get that sorted out in my mind

[Boss4b]

Hope this helps say I'm in Vic and your in qld or even the other side of vic and you brought a gun from me I would take it to my local shop sell them the gun at no cost then they would sell it to your local shop at a cost for shipping and transfer then you would buy it from that shop plus shipping and transfer so it would belong to me then my local shop then your local shop then you if that makes sense

[AusTac]

You'll have to wait till the Vicpol says you can have that firearm, permit goes off via gun shop to police, they go yes he has a cat a and b he can have a bolt action 308, they send back to the shop.

When you buy a used firearm where ever it goes through is put into and out of their books so who ever has possession of it at the time is responsible for it

[<<Genesis93>>]

You're allowed to possess ANY firearm of a category you're licensed for....

You can 'borrow' any such firearm from another licensed person or dealer, and bring it home straight away..no pta...no 28 days.....only 'trust' or a fee.

You can NOT however 'acquire', which is taking possession other than 'borrowing' WITHOUT a PTA, so re the purchase from another state and through an intermediary (the dealer) although from a common law perspective, there's a contract, an agreement, a consideration and exchange, so you 'own' it once the deals done - but under the Firearms law you cant 'acquire' it other than 'borrow' it until the PTA is approved. So once received the dealer will put it 'on his/her books', then put it to your name once PTA'd...

The dealer wont worry about the rifle hanging around taking up space... you'll pay for the privilege

[bladeracer]

Thanks guys
Damned crazy country we live in in now!

[David Brown]

Which is yet another reason why we need to all keep pushing to ban PTA's and registries. They do nothing useful and only cost the consumer and community.

It fails my "Does everything it should and nothing it shouldn't" test.

[bladeracer]

Which is yet another reason why we need to all keep pushing to ban PTA's and registries. They do nothing useful and only cost the consumer and community.

It fails my "Does everything it should and nothing it shouldn't" test.

Agreed.

[David Brown]

Have you sat down with the police minister and opposition spokesman for police and discussed the folly of PTA and registration?

You should. They need to be enlightened.