Should pepper spray be legal?

[Lyam]

Yeah, make the pepper spray legal, but make sure people who use it without good reason are charged with assault.

Sounds good to me.

[Warrigul]

IMHO pepper spray is not an answer to domestic violence. If a woman need protecting she need to remove herself and her kids from the situation.

I would rather some lowlife run past and snatch my wifes or handbag and keep running than have her confront some looser with little to loose and willing to go to jail for $50 or $100.

Add to this the vase majority or rapes committed by current or ex partners or other acquaintances.

Aug 10, 2006 - Statistical information about sexual assault in Australia.

"Only 1% of the women surveyed identified having been raped by a stranger"

IMHO we need to educate women who may be at risk. Start by teaching them to to make an effective repeated strikes to the eyes, throat and/or groin. Then on how to report the incident

Chronos

You make it sound like 1% of women identifying as having being raped by a stranger as an acceptable statistic and not worthy of self defence.


Not my intension, I simply meant to stress that more needs to be done to help all women at risk if sexual assault and other violence and while a defensive weapon like pepper spray may help in a situation where she finds herself under attack (I stress may simply because the woman would need to be capable of using such a device effectively)

As far as a woman removing herself and her kids from a violent situation it sounds easier than it is in reality. You get a nutter and he doesn't give a ****** how far away she has moved and most doors knock down with a couple of kicks.

And how is her staying in an abusive relationship and arming her with pepper spray going to keep her and her kids safe? She needs support when she makes the decision to get out and the reporting is the start of that process

As far as the self defence and reporting statement goes you perhaps need to look at what you are saying or how you are saying it as you appear to be shifting the responsibility or blame to the victim.

Blame? No but responsibility yes. A woman is responsible for herself, and her kids. Surely you don't suggest she should rely on a man to protect her at all times, like occurs in some societies where a woman must be accompanied by a male family member when she goes out in public.

I'll be honest with you, a lot of competitive martial arts people and self defence class attendees have a very highly overated opinion of what they are capacle of and when confronted with someone who actually wants to do them harm they are in real strife. I have seen many come and go on door duties and most aren't much chop, nothing beats a competitive boxer or just a plain adrenaline psycho that wants to rip your head off for the fun of it. It is very hard to subdue a truly motivated person.

No difference putting a can of pepper spray in her hand then? Or a gun for that matter. What are the chances of that woman keeping composed in the face of such an attacker and using any self defence weapon effectively

I don't have all the answers, and I don't pretend to but these discussions are important. I know women who react well under stress, I married one. I've seen her do things I could not. But I also know of women who could not look an attacker in the eye and strike out.

I'm not trying to argue with anyone, just want to clarify my points, after all its an important topic

Chronos

I feel that if a woman is under attack it would be better to rely on a can of pepper spray than your comments on her responsibility etc.

You talk about not helping the situation by giving a woman some chance at defence, I say better to arm her and sort out the consequences later than just get all fuzzy about how defence is her responsibility and how she should leave the environment she is in. Most of the serious damage in a DV is post separation and they should have the means to defend themselves if their ex walks right throught that AVO and puts her and or her kids in ICU or worse. I don't think you have a realistic grip on what happens in many of these circumstances.

You also say that the chances of a woman staying calm in a violent situation are small, what sort of argument is that? I would rather my daughter have the means of defence just in case she is able to use it rather than not give it to her in case she can't.

[Guliver]

Well put Chronos.

Pepper spray use requires training, if it is available for general sale at Kmart, (as it is at Walmart) no such training will be undertaken. I can see a family violence situation being made worse by the presence of pepper spray.

The Potential Negative Effects of Pepper Spray: http://home.howstuffworks.com/home-impr ... spray3.htm

Suggested reading

Google search use of pepper spray problems : https://www.google.com.au/search?q=use+ ... 8Qe87YG4DA

[Chronos]

I feel that if a woman is under attack it would be better to rely on a can of pepper spray than your comments on her responsibility etc.

You talk about not helping the situation by giving a woman some chance at defence, I say better to arm her and sort out the consequences later than just get all fuzzy about how defence is her responsibility and how she should leave the environment she is in. Most of the serious damage in a DV is post separation and they should have the means to defend themselves if their ex walks right throught that AVO and puts her and or her kids in ICU or worse. I don't think you have a realistic grip on what happens in many of these circumstances.

You also say that the chances of a woman staying calm in a violent situation are small, what sort of argument is that? I would rather my daughter have the means of defence just in case she is able to use it rather than not give it to her in case she can't.

perhaps my comment about her responsibility are misunderstood. my point is that it's neither your's nor my job to decide for a woman how she should act when under threat, whether it be from an abusive partner or ex or a stranger on the street. the current laws do not allow any item to be carried as a defensive weapon. not a knife, a gun, a stick, a spanner or a nail file. However i don't believe there is a court in the country who would uphold a charge against a woman who uses any of these items in self defense against an attacker (perhaps with the exception of a gun, more political than judicial IMHO)

I will not enter into a discussion about your personal family situation, it's not my place but i would say anyone should make good choices about their own situation and capabilities. I spent 2 years living in a city which has been listed in the most dangerous cities in the world. I made myself responsible for my own safety, now i'm a pretty big guy however during my time there i had absolutely zero intention of putting myself in any situation where my life was at risk. If i was to be confronted by a knife or gun wielding crook you can be sure i would have politely handed him my wallet, phone, car keys and shoes because i consider i had a lot more to loose than him by becoming involved in a scuffle. When i was at home i locked my doors and windows, when i drove i locked my doors and i didn't walk the streets at night. there were guys there who carried guns, and i would say some of them needed them, clubbing late at night, taking home local women and sleeping with their married staff. and if those womens husbands and brothers had come after them i would say that those guys were responsible for what happened to them.

Chronos

this is my last post on this topic, i see no point trying to justify my opinion, an opinion formed by my own personal experience.

[Muddy1967]

Hmmm, A great debate.

Now everyone shut up and lets go shooting.

[Chronos]

Hmmm, A great debate.

Now everyone shut up and lets go shooting.

Agree. Tomorrow is loading day, .243, 7-08 and .308...plus I have a .204 case stuck in a f/l sizing die :fp:

Chronos

[Muddy1967]

Tomorrow is loading day, .243, 7-08 and .308...plus I have a .204 case stuck in a f/l sizing die :fp:

Chronos

It must be a .204 thing, my brother in law had the same problem. He also broke a depriving pin.

[Warrigul]

perhaps my comment about her responsibility are misunderstood. my point is that it's neither your's nor my job to decide for a woman how she should act when under threat, whether it be from an abusive partner or ex or a stranger on the street. the current laws do not allow any item to be carried as a defensive weapon. not a knife, a gun, a stick, a spanner or a nail file. However i don't believe there is a court in the country who would uphold a charge against a woman who uses any of these items in self defense against an attacker (perhaps with the exception of a gun, more political than judicial IMHO)

I will not enter into a discussion about your personal family situation, it's not my place but i would say anyone should make good choices about their own situation and capabilities. I spent 2 years living in a city which has been listed in the most dangerous cities in the world. I made myself responsible for my own safety, now i'm a pretty big guy however during my time there i had absolutely zero intention of putting myself in any situation where my life was at risk. If i was to be confronted by a knife or gun wielding crook you can be sure i would have politely handed him my wallet, phone, car keys and shoes because i consider i had a lot more to loose than him by becoming involved in a scuffle. When i was at home i locked my doors and windows, when i drove i locked my doors and i didn't walk the streets at night. there were guys there who carried guns, and i would say some of them needed them, clubbing late at night, taking home local women and sleeping with their married staff. and if those womens husbands and brothers had come after them i would say that those guys were responsible for what happened to them.

Chronos

this is my last post on this topic, i see no point trying to justify my opinion, an opinion formed by my own personal experience.

I actually see no relevence whatsoever between your personal overseas experience and life here in Australia, which is what the debate is about: Whether pepper spray should be made legal here or not.

The fact that you would immediately hand over your posessions is probably a very sensible solution, but ultimately the crooks have achieved their end- they have intimidated you. If they stop at simply depriving you of your posessions you have gotten off lightly, would you be willing to go a bit further and let yourself be gangbanged or perhaps your partner, where do you draw the line? I was advised for one six month overseas swing to carry(even under guard) simply because if you did get in that situation they often killed you regardless. There is a reason they pay big money for some jobs.

Unfortunately a rapist isn't simply out to steal posessions and go, they will not stop until the act is complete unless it is made too difficult.

I think the majority of posters have agreed that improper use should remain an offence but posession allowed. Simply being able to at least display a deterrant when cornered and no place to run may make a difference in a few cases or at least provide a few seconds to start running..

It is a very righteous person who is willing to deny others the right to defence, far better to prosecute a random spraying misuse than another inquest.

As you have said it was your last post on the subject, so will this be mine.

[Blackened]

I have a .204 case stuck in a f/l sizing die :fp:

How stuck is stuck?

A standard press is pretty strong, a liberal application of elbow grease is usually good to get a stuck case out if it's just due to a lack of case lube... ?