Victorian Collectors Licence?

Questions about Victorian gun and ammunition laws. Victorian Firearms Act 1996.

Victorian Collectors Licence?

Post by TBJ » 31 Jul 2018, 1:52 pm

I'm pretty sure I've seen this asked before but, I have a few questions of my own in regards to a Collectors Licence in Victoria.

I mainly want to collect vintage Pre-1946 Handguns as well as any other guns that peak my interest probably mostly old milsurp stuff but I'm not sure what you can actually collect, such as I love my old Winchesters and Brownings, specifically the FN Shotguns. What are the requirements? I know I need to be a member of a club, but what approved clubs are around the Melbourne area? What firearms can one actually collect? and do I need any further storage/security? I already have two Cat. A/B/C/H (possibly D, but never really looked into it) approved safes bolted down in every way possible, is that sufficient or is there more I would have to do? also in regards to shooting them, if you're licensed to own and shoot that category of gun such as A/B and H would you be able to shoot those if they were owned under the collectors licence for example I have a Lithgow SMLE under the collectors licence can I take it to the range and shoot it if I wanted to, or if I had an original 1911A1 would I be able to take it to my club and shoot it if I wanted to or are these guns for my collection but never able to be shot?

thanks
Last edited by TBJ on 31 Jul 2018, 4:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Have: .17H .22LR .204R .222REM .223REM .22-250 .243WIN .270WIN .308WIN .300WM 7.62x39 30-06SPRG .303BRIT 30-30WIN 9.3x62 45-70GOVT 44RMAG 45LC 20GA 12GA .410GA
Want: .220SWIFT 6.5CREED .260REM .375H&H .416RIGBY .444MARLIN .458WIN 16GA 28GA
TBJ
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Re: Victorian Collectors Licence?

Post by No1Mk3 » 31 Jul 2018, 3:56 pm

G'day TBJ,
For what you want, a Cat 1 Collectors licence will do it all, you only need Cat 2 to collect post-46 handguns. Collectors clubs around Melbourne are
SSAA Arms & Militaria Club
Antique Arms Collectors Guild
As well as a couple of SSAA sub-clubs which have a Collectors Club attached
3MD Pistol Club
Military Rifle Club
The above 2 clubs require that you be members of SSAA, as well as the sub-club. I am MRC, and also joined our adjunct Military Collectors Club which is very cheap to join due to already paying fees to be a MRC member.
With a Cat 1 you can collect any longarm that meets your nominated collectors theme, for me it is military small arms 1950 to 1850, and I collect anything in that century, you can decide your own theme. The limitations are that semi and full auto longarms must be completely welded shut, so I don't collect them as I can't bear the thought of destroying them like that. You will need to upgrade your security quite a lot, apart from a safe/strongbox, walls of the room to be a "substantial physical barrier", door to be solid core with security hinges and a deadlatch lock, steel bars on any external window etc. Full details can be found in Schedule 4 of the Firearms Act. You are generally not permitted to shoot a firearm held under a collectors licence without a specific permit from Licensing which are not that easy to get. Permits are issued either as individual or club, and few clubs really bother. 3MD hold collectors shoots, but only handgun, we are also going to hold collectors shoots for handgun and rifle. At this stage we would only have 6 days a year for collectors approval shoots. Any thing else you need to know, just ask, Cheers.
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Re: Victorian Collectors Licence?

Post by TBJ » 31 Jul 2018, 4:16 pm

No1Mk3 wrote:G'day TBJ,
For what you want, a Cat 1 Collectors licence will do it all, you only need Cat 2 to collect post-46 handguns. Collectors clubs around Melbourne are
SSAA Arms & Militaria Club
Antique Arms Collectors Guild
As well as a couple of SSAA sub-clubs which have a Collectors Club attached
3MD Pistol Club
Military Rifle Club
The above 2 clubs require that you be members of SSAA, as well as the sub-club. I am MRC, and also joined our adjunct Military Collectors Club which is very cheap to join due to already paying fees to be a MRC member.
With a Cat 1 you can collect any longarm that meets your nominated collectors theme, for me it is military small arms 1950 to 1850, and I collect anything in that century, you can decide your own theme. The limitations are that semi and full auto longarms must be completely welded shut, so I don't collect them as I can't bear the thought of destroying them like that. You will need to upgrade your security quite a lot, apart from a safe/strongbox, walls of the room to be a "substantial physical barrier", door to be solid core with security hinges and a deadlatch lock, steel bars on any external window etc. Full details can be found in Schedule 4 of the Firearms Act. You are generally not permitted to shoot a firearm held under a collectors licence without a specific permit from Licensing which are not that easy to get. Permits are issued either as individual or club, and few clubs really bother. 3MD hold collectors shoots, but only handgun, we are also going to hold collectors shoots for handgun and rifle. At this stage we would only have 6 days a year for collectors approval shoots. Any thing else you need to know, just ask, Cheers.


thanks No1Mk3, seems like I might have to figure out this security thing, like bars and a heavy duty door, in terms of the Welding shut of Semi/Full auto firearms does this include rimfire and shotgun semi-auto's i.e Cat C or is it just Cat D? As I love my vintage Winchester's and FN Browning's specifically, and there are a few semi Auto rimfire's and shotgun's that I would like to include in the collection eventually if possible such as the Belgian A5's and Winchester 63's and 1903's, if they have to be welded shut however I wouldn't bother with them?
Have: .17H .22LR .204R .222REM .223REM .22-250 .243WIN .270WIN .308WIN .300WM 7.62x39 30-06SPRG .303BRIT 30-30WIN 9.3x62 45-70GOVT 44RMAG 45LC 20GA 12GA .410GA
Want: .220SWIFT 6.5CREED .260REM .375H&H .416RIGBY .444MARLIN .458WIN 16GA 28GA
TBJ
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Re: Victorian Collectors Licence?

Post by cracker » 31 Jul 2018, 5:37 pm

Ring around some of the above mentioned clubs, its a long process which isnt cheap.
Took me around 12 months all said and done
You can own cat C they need to be temporarily deactivated
Cat D needs to be permanent deactivation.

Its all online play by the rules and its a good time.
cracker
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Re: Victorian Collectors Licence?

Post by cracker » 31 Jul 2018, 5:38 pm

Ring around some of the above mentioned clubs, its a long process which isnt cheap.
Took me around 12 months all said and done
You can own cat C they need to be temporarily deactivated
Cat D needs to be permanent deactivation.

Its all online play by the rules and its a good time.
cracker
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Re: Victorian Collectors Licence?

Post by TBJ » 31 Jul 2018, 5:56 pm

cracker wrote:Ring around some of the above mentioned clubs, its a long process which isnt cheap.
Took me around 12 months all said and done
You can own cat C they need to be temporarily deactivated
Cat D needs to be permanent deactivation.

Its all online play by the rules and its a good time.


How much money are we talking here? and What do you mean by its all online?
also how does one temporarily deactivate a firearm? remove the firing pin?
Have: .17H .22LR .204R .222REM .223REM .22-250 .243WIN .270WIN .308WIN .300WM 7.62x39 30-06SPRG .303BRIT 30-30WIN 9.3x62 45-70GOVT 44RMAG 45LC 20GA 12GA .410GA
Want: .220SWIFT 6.5CREED .260REM .375H&H .416RIGBY .444MARLIN .458WIN 16GA 28GA
TBJ
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Re: Victorian Collectors Licence?

Post by Chinballs » 31 Jul 2018, 6:21 pm

TBJ wrote:
cracker wrote:How much money are we talking here? and What do you mean by its all online?
also how does one temporarily deactivate a firearm? remove the firing pin?


The VicPol website is pretty good as far as info goes.

Its a lot easier to just whack a trigger lock on than remove the firing pin.You also don't have to worry about losing parts and if you get the locks keyed alike you will never lose all the keys. From memory I got four locks keyed alike for $15 on eBay. Cheap as chips.
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Re: Victorian Collectors Licence?

Post by TBJ » 31 Jul 2018, 6:30 pm

Chinballs wrote:
TBJ wrote:
cracker wrote:How much money are we talking here? and What do you mean by its all online?
also how does one temporarily deactivate a firearm? remove the firing pin?


The VicPol website is pretty good as far as info goes.

Its a lot easier to just whack a trigger lock on than remove the firing pin.You also don't have to worry about losing parts and if you get the locks keyed alike you will never lose all the keys. From memory I got four locks keyed alike for $15 on eBay. Cheap as chips.


Ah ok so a trigger lock is ok? I just figured that since it's a condition of having the firearm registered under the Collectors licence that it would be more complicated than just a trigger lock.
Have: .17H .22LR .204R .222REM .223REM .22-250 .243WIN .270WIN .308WIN .300WM 7.62x39 30-06SPRG .303BRIT 30-30WIN 9.3x62 45-70GOVT 44RMAG 45LC 20GA 12GA .410GA
Want: .220SWIFT 6.5CREED .260REM .375H&H .416RIGBY .444MARLIN .458WIN 16GA 28GA
TBJ
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Re: Victorian Collectors Licence?

Post by cracker » 31 Jul 2018, 6:55 pm

TBJ wrote:
Chinballs wrote:
TBJ wrote:
cracker wrote:How much money are we talking here? and What do you mean by its all online?
also how does one temporarily deactivate a firearm? remove the firing pin?


The VicPol website is pretty good as far as info goes.

Its a lot easier to just whack a trigger lock on than remove the firing pin.You also don't have to worry about losing parts and if you get the locks keyed alike you will never lose all the keys. From memory I got four locks keyed alike for $15 on eBay. Cheap as chips.


Ah ok so a trigger lock is ok? I just figured that since it's a condition of having the firearm registered under the Collectors licence that it would be more complicated than just a trigger lock.


Just read vicpols website sets everything out, if you have any doubts ring some of the clubs and find one you like he sounds of.
its a long process and alot more difficult and drawn out then a & b long arms.
a & b long arms is a cake walk compared to cat 1 collectors
cracker
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Re: Victorian Collectors Licence?

Post by sungazer » 31 Jul 2018, 7:49 pm

Here is a question I was reading these Storage Requirements the other day Sched 4 In the "Cat A and B section" it says that they must be stored in a safe of wood or steel bla bla bla.
In the Collectors section there are a lot more conditions for one it talks about the room they are to be stored in. Then if i am right it then says that they must be stored in a lock box or a safe as in the same as the Cat A & B section. Then is says if the bolts are kept separate to the rifles they must also be stored in a Cat A & B safe.

First did I read that Collectors section correctly? Second as there is no mention of how a bolt is to be stored if it is removed from a gun if you only have cat A & B . What are the storage requirements if any?
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Re: Victorian Collectors Licence?

Post by No1Mk3 » 31 Jul 2018, 8:04 pm

G'day sungazer,
Some collectors arms require temporary deactivation as cracker said, Cat C mainly, and removal of bolts may be one of those requirements. If so, they must be stored in a separate safe. This only applies to firearms held under Cat 1 licence, not A/B firearms, where the bolt can be stored on the kitchen table or left in the firearm as you please. It is not the only stupid, moronic piece of garbage intended to be an impediment to collecting. For instance, I have an 1883 Reichsrevolver, the Act says I have to fit a trigger lock even when it is in the safe, right next to my Colt Python comp pistol which does NOT need to have a trigger lock! Go figure!
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Re: Victorian Collectors Licence?

Post by sungazer » 31 Jul 2018, 8:22 pm

Yes I found it very strange. I can understand it for some of the guns. But the (I will call them true collectors) older rifles lets face it are not a huge threat or are they really wanted by the crims. The handguns though are always going to be a hot topic.
I was wondering if I had read the cat A & B correctly and if it was left out by omission meant that the rule didnt apply. I have a few bolts in different areas depending on the day whether they just get left out of storage due to them being separate because of transport or I was playing with one in the shed ect.
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Re: Victorian Collectors Licence?

Post by cracker » 31 Jul 2018, 8:23 pm

No1Mk3 wrote:G'day sungazer,
Some collectors arms require temporary deactivation as cracker said, Cat C mainly, and removal of bolts may be one of those requirements. If so, they must be stored in a separate safe. This only applies to firearms held under Cat 1 licence, not A/B firearms, where the bolt can be stored on the kitchen table or left in the firearm as you please. It is not the only stupid, moronic piece of garbage intended to be an impediment to collecting. For instance, I have an 1883 Reichsrevolver, the Act says I have to fit a trigger lock even when it is in the safe, right next to my Colt Python comp pistol which does NOT need to have a trigger lock! Go figure!


could you show me in the act where it states you must have a trigger lock on a hand gun?
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Re: Victorian Collectors Licence?

Post by No1Mk3 » 01 Aug 2018, 5:41 am

G'day cracker,
Schedule 2, Item 5 (7). It applies to handguns on the basis you can't remove the bolt or firing pin, so you must fit a trigger lock, Cheers.
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Re: Victorian Collectors Licence?

Post by wolfthomas » 01 Aug 2018, 9:34 am

Is there a definition to "substantial physical barrier". I've been reading in collectors licenses and I find there is a lot left vague. No exact recommendations for size/thickness of security bars or what is a "sturdy door".

Some of the confusing paragraph structure to storage requirements. Like if you only have A+B firearms normal storage requirements are okay, but not if you have any other firearms. So does that mean firearms for hunting on a Cat A+B or a handgun license? Or just other collectors firearms. The alarm requirements too seem confusing.

I know I could email LRD, but sometimes they can be obtuse and it can be good to put the feelers out before an official answer.

(Currently I have handguns on a general handgun license and Cat A+B for sporting and hunting, I have a .303 SMLE that is from WW1 that is from a deceased estate, technically to be correct I should have that under a collectors license, which is what I'd like to get if I don't need extra requirements to store it. Then down the track when finances permit I'd like to upgrade and collect antigue handguns and shotguns).
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Re: Victorian Collectors Licence?

Post by No1Mk3 » 01 Aug 2018, 6:09 pm

G'day wolfthomas,
No, there isn't. Mine have shelving all over 1 wall, the tiled shower wall on another, and a desk and bookshelf on the 3rd. The 4th is external, brick house. This passed, (I have hurricane mesh nailed to the rafters in the roof space) This was acceptable to the inspecting Officers Security bars, well, steel, but the inspecting Officer did grab them and yank so make them sturdy. Sturdy door is taken as solid core, don't stint because if you fail the inspection when it comes it will cost you a helluva lot more. Just have a think about what a reasonable person would consider is stronger and fits with the intent of the Act, and you will be OK. If the inspecting Officer sees you have tried to comply, he may suggest something and come back later without any fuss. Put the 303 on your A/B licence, less fuss and bother unless you need more room for other things, Cheers.
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Re: Victorian Collectors Licence?

Post by cracker » 01 Aug 2018, 8:07 pm

No1Mk3 wrote:G'day cracker,
Schedule 2, Item 5 (7). It applies to handguns on the basis you can't remove the bolt or firing pin, so you must fit a trigger lock, Cheers.


Thanks man.

If you honestly think its an easy way to get your hands on semi autos... it just isnt. its a huge undertaking, with alot of time and money required to be invested.
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Re: Victorian Collectors Licence?

Post by wolfthomas » 04 Aug 2018, 11:39 am

No1Mk3. Thanks for taking the time to answer. Given me a bit to think about.
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